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ObamaRama 8

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Re: ObamaRama 8

pirate said:
Murray Blum for President!!
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The man did more in a movie than any elected official has in decades! And he loves his bratwurst! ;)

See I am all for cutting waste, the problem is all the people that tout it (speaking of politicians of course) really dont want to do it (pork = votes!) and have no idea what they want to cut anyways. As you said they spin it so the average idiot thinks that cutting spending means cutting medicare or education when there are thousands of other things that are wasteful and get ignored. If I saw any of that go away, if I honestly thought that by giving the government less money they would spend less I would be the first in line but we know that isnt the truth. So as it is a tax cut doesn't do anything to curb the real problem. (that is not an endorsement of raising taxes especially on the rich, just saying cutting taxes is akin to using a watergun on a forest fire)

Does taking money away from a crack addict stop them from using crack? Nope just causes them to beg, borrow and steal to feed the habit. We needed the GOP Government to reign it all in so we wouldn't be where we are now. They didn't because as we know power corrupts. Now instead of the needed cycle of conservative spending/liberal spending we have just spend and spend more! And it will only get worse...
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

joecct said:
I am all for redoing the tax system. Fair tax. The more you spend, the more you pay. Since those that have the most, spend the most, they pay the most.

OTOH, if you told everybody that they take their current tax bill and knock 10% off of it, I think most people will be estatic. So Bill Gates gets $1 million knocked off and I get $4K. OK by me -- Bill is a lot more successful than me - plus he pays a lot more than me in taxes.

In any scheme that potentially cuts revenue, you need fiscal discipline (!) on the expense side. That means Congress and the legislatures need to cut their desire to spend, spend, spend.
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The Fair Tax is an excellent idea. Unfortunately most people won't educate themselves by reading either the books explaining it or the actual bill in Congress.
 
Bill said:
The Fair Tax is an excellent idea. Unfortunately most people won't educate themselves by reading either the books explaining it or the actual bill in Congress.
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Yeah, most just spout rhetoric from book reviewers without having a clue about its validity.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Bill,

weren't you taken to the woodshed the last time you brought up the fair tax?

edit: and again, you should be able to argue the basic notions since you've read the book. If any person came to me about a subject (as happens in statistics) if they told me to read the book as an excuse to avoid explanation I'd walk out of the room.
 
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Re: ObamaRama 8

Well Plante, I can understand your confusion, since you continue to take my simple and straightforward writings, and twist and turn them to construct them into your strawman diatribes.

It's called reading comprehension, why don't you look into it?
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Handyman said:
The man did more in a movie than any elected official has in decades! And he loves his bratwurst! ;)

See I am all for cutting waste, the problem is all the people that tout it (speaking of politicians of course) really dont want to do it (pork = votes!) and have no idea what they want to cut anyways. As you said they spin it so the average idiot thinks that cutting spending means cutting medicare or education when there are thousands of other things that are wasteful and get ignored. If I saw any of that go away, if I honestly thought that by giving the government less money they would spend less I would be the first in line but we know that isnt the truth. So as it is a tax cut doesn't do anything to curb the real problem. (that is not an endorsement of raising taxes especially on the rich, just saying cutting taxes is akin to using a watergun on a forest fire)

Does taking money away from a crack addict stop them from using crack? Nope just causes them to beg, borrow and steal to feed the habit. We needed the GOP Government to reign it all in so we wouldn't be where we are now. They didn't because as we know power corrupts. Now instead of the needed cycle of conservative spending/liberal spending we have just spend and spend more! And it will only get worse...
Click to expand...

And I can't solve it but one thing I do is refuse to belong to a party and instead am an independent. Seems trivial to most but it preserves my sanity.

Although, if I espouse an opinion on here that conflicts with a partisan view, the name calling starts immediately...it honestly concerns me that many people cannot fathom the idea of agreeing with a liberal on one thing and a conservative on another.

Whether it is my next door neighbor, many people on here or people at work, they are so worried about 'the other side' getting an advantage that they refuse to listen, learn and get anything done...sound like Congress????

Parties have become more like religions...something people can believe in while 'knowing' that everybody else must be wrong because they don't have the same 'god'. If I went back in time and described the current activity of a political party....always hitting you up for money, telling you that if you give you will help fight the 'bad' side, spending huge amounts of money on themselves and failing to hold themselves to what they preach...people would think I was describing a corrupt televangelist.

Think about a group put in charge of fixing the economy during a recession or defending the country after 9/11 and in doing so they included a bunch of projects that do nothing but spend money and keep their fat asses employed by buying votes.

They can't even focus on the subject and hold themselves to a higher standard when the lives of their constituents literally are at stake...not even a higher standard really...just the job description...they cannot do it.

I used to think we needed the line item veto but all that would do is ensure that every bill was completely partisan and no negotiation ever took place.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

pirate said:
And I can't solve it but one thing I do is refuse to belong to a party and instead am an independent. Seems trivial to most but it preserves my sanity.
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I could not agree more...political parties are a joke. They are cults that do more to dumb down the populace than represent them. I also agree with what George Washington said, "They [political parties] serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation, the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community."

Different times call for different answers...sometimes you need to be fiscally conservative, sometimes you need to be more liberal. Sometimes you need to be isolationist and sometimes you need to help outside your borders. Sometimes you need to be warhawkish while other times you need to promote peace. No one side of the spectrum is right all the time, problem is neither party would ever admit that and their zombies wouldn't want them too because it might require them to think for themselves.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Plante26 said:
So you're saying that companies paying for the majority of their employee's health care is bad? You'd rather see the taxpayers picking up the tab? You're about as smart as a lobotomized garden gnome if you think this is the better way to go about things. Listen as hard as you effing can, and you might learn something:

Companies getting tax deductions for paying for employee health benefits = no cost to taxpayers.
Employees on the public option = cost to taxpayers.

Is that so difficult to understand? Or are you really are a complete dolt? You "assume" that businesses get "much more benefit", but you'd be wrong. Have you ever done a tax return? Really?
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This article, written by an owner of a very successful health care company, makes the argument that tax deductible health care plans are bad. One of the benefits of government run health care would be an increase in start-up companies since the people starting the companies wouldn't have to worry about health care. Would probably create more jobs as well.

Anyway, here's the link:

http://www.inc.com/magazine/20091101/how-one-entrepreneur-would-fix-health-care.html
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

trucker said:
This article, written by an owner of a very successful health care company, makes the argument that tax deductible health care plans are bad. One of the benefits of government run health care would be an increase in start-up companies since the people starting the companies wouldn't have to worry about health care. Would probably create more jobs as well.

Anyway, here's the link:

http://www.inc.com/magazine/20091101/how-one-entrepreneur-would-fix-health-care.html
Click to expand...

Sorry, that link doesn't work. If you really want to see the article go to inc.com and type "How To Fix Health Care" into the search engine. Here's an excerpt:

What's the biggest flaw of the current system?

The fact that we have employers central to our system is the biggest problem. And it exists this way all because of a historical accident. During World War II, companies couldn't raise wages to attract workers, so they began offering health insurance. The IRS then determined companies could consider that a business expense rather than counting it toward personal income. The result is that people now know more about their car- or homeowner's-insurance plan than they do about their health insurance. They are insulated from the true cost of their heath care.

What changes would you make to get people more involved?

I would get the employers out of the middle. I would convert existing benefits into wages that would be taxed as income. I would then impose a mandate where every individual would need to purchase an insurance plan, where those who can't afford it would get a voucher, similar to how Medicaid works. This would turn everyone into active consumers, where they would shop around for the best plan for them. It also wouldn't put the insurance companies out of business. They would simply need to shift from offering plans aimed at groups to plans based on the needs of individuals.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

trucker said:
What changes would you make to get people more involved?

I would get the employers out of the middle. I would convert existing benefits into wages that would be taxed as income..
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could you in fact mandate that my company hands over the $19,474.44 they currently pay toward my family's health plan to me?!?
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

mookie1995 said:
could you in fact mandate that my company hands over the $19,474.44 they currently pay toward my family's health plan to me?!?
Click to expand...

And we'll be extinct in 100 years when nobody has children anymore:D :D

At least China will have someplace to expand.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

2 Dem senators are done in 2010.
I guess Chris Dodd is doing the Dems a favor by retiring. Dorgans seat may shift to a repub?
 
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