ObamaRama 8

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Umm, you really think Congress is allowed to pass laws on anything and everything? Jesus.

Rufus, let me give you some advice. You should read the Constitution. You are really uneducated. Even a moron knows that all powers that are not specifically granted to Congress are reserved states' rights. I'm not going to quote the part of the Constitution that actually says that - I learned it back in junior high and if you didn't, the onus is on you to fix your educational deficiency. If you're too lazy to read the Constitution before you comment on it again, then I guess that proves the worth of your comments on here.

Also, the burden is now back on you to show where the Constitution gives Congress the authority to enact coverage for medical care.




If someone is actually dumb enough to think that the preamble to the Constitution actually authorizes welfare checks and medical coverage, I'm not really sure this explanation is going to make a dent.

Personally though, I don't think anyone's that dumb. Using the preamble as a justification for Congress leaping into the insurance business is an intellectual copout - it's waving the white flag to trying to come up with a reasonable and logical reason for this idiotic, fly-by-night bill that only liberals and illegal aliens are in favor of. It's basically putting lipstick on a pig, a friendly way of saying the ends justify the means.

Hey Gregg. Eff off. Take your condescension with you.

And BTW, bottom line, if this law passes, it is constitutional, until and if the Supreme Court says it isn't.

No matter what you think about it. Get over yourself.

 

[Plante26]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Hey Gregg. Eff off. Take your condescension with you.

And BTW, bottom line, if this law passes, it is constitutional, until and if the Supreme Court says it isn't.

No matter what you think about it. Get over yourself.

Wow. You know someone doesn't have a ideological leg to stand on when the f-bombs start flying.

There are plenty of laws out there that are unconstitutional. That doesn't make them right. And to argue for another piece of unconstitutional legislation proves that liberals either don't like the Constitution or don't care what the Constitution says. Or both.

 

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Wow. You know someone doesn't have a ideological leg to stand on when the f-bombs start flying.

There are plenty of laws out there that are unconstitutional. That doesn't make them right. And to argue for another piece of unconstitutional legislation proves that liberals either don't like the Constitution or don't care what the Constitution says. Or both.

Like I said, they're not unconstitutional until the Supreme Court rules that they are. You really don't understand how our system of government works, do you?

It doesn't matter what you think of them.

 

[Plante26]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Like I said, they're not unconstitutional until the Supreme Court rules that they are. You really don't understand how our system of government works, do you?

It doesn't matter what you think of them.

Just because the SCOTUS hasn't ruled on any particular law doesn't mean they're automatically constitutional. With that line of thinking, you'd have to admit that the states banning gay marriage is constitutional. But I know you're not about to do that, being the left-wing lunatic that you are.

 

[joecct]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Assuming the final bill is passed, how soon after the bill is signed does somebody file suit on the law's consitutionality???

 

[Plante26]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Assuming the final bill is passed, how soon after the bill is signed does somebody file suit on the law's consitutionality???

For the breadth of influence this bill will have, and the slippery slope it is creating, I'm hoping not too long.

 

[Bill]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Some clarification on this "deficit reduction" health care bill:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/merry_christmas_from_harry.html

 

[mookie1995]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Some clarification on this "deficit reduction" health care bill:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/merry_christmas_from_harry.html

hey, if it's not working they can always change it. it's a start. you have to do something. if you have a better plan, let's hear it!

 

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Just because the SCOTUS hasn't ruled on any particular law doesn't mean they're automatically constitutional. With that line of thinking, you'd have to admit that the states banning gay marriage is constitutional. But I know you're not about to do that, being the left-wing lunatic that you are.

Yeah, they are. I might not agree with it, but that's the law as it currently stands. Suck it up and quit whining.

 

[Rover]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I love it. Bill trots out the death panels argument again. Bill, you get the Knuckledragger of the Day award. Congratulations!

Mookie, you're asking a conservative for a plan? Good luck. They seem to be clinging to tort reform, who's 10Bn in savings is apparently greater than the 132Bn from the Dems bill, not to mention the 1.3T in the next 10 years. Funny, I don't recall any GOP bills independently assessed to save that much money???

Gregg, not sure what you're getting at with the nonsense you posted, but I'll just chalk it up to too much moonshine consumption on your part and check back here after you've sobered up.

 

[Plante26]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Mookie, you're asking a conservative for a plan? Good luck. They seem to be clinging to tort reform, who's 10Bn in savings is apparently greater than the 132Bn from the Dems bill, not to mention the 1.3T in the next 10 years. Funny, I don't recall any GOP bills independently assessed to save that much money???

So you think the same president that vowed during his campaign to go through the federal budget line-by-line--and still hasn't done so nearly a quarter of the way through his term--is going to go into Medicare and eliminate the waste/fraud/abuse AFTER his pet bill is passed? Not a chance.

The man hasn't done anything of note in his first year as CIC. Guaranteed: As soon as this bill is passed, the money will start disappearing (like it did with the Stimulus and the Auto Bailout) and they'll move on to the next money grab in cap & trade and banking regulation overhauls.

 

[Rover]

Re: ObamaRama 8

So you think the same president that vowed during his campaign to go through the federal budget line-by-line--and still hasn't done so nearly a quarter of the way through his term--is going to go into Medicare and eliminate the waste/fraud/abuse AFTER his pet bill is passed? Not a chance.

The man hasn't done anything of note in his first year as CIC. Guaranteed: As soon as this bill is passed, the money will start disappearing (like it did with the Stimulus and the Auto Bailout) and they'll move on to the next money grab in cap & trade and banking regulation overhauls.

Methinks you're just a wee bit biased.

 

[blockski]

Re: ObamaRama 8

For the breadth of influence this bill will have, and the slippery slope it is creating, I'm hoping not too long.

Of course, you can't just sue - you must have standing to bring suit. Right after they passed the line item veto, there were several lawsuits against it - which were rejected due to a lack of standing. Once Clinton actually used the line item veto, an aggrieved party then sued, several other parties filed briefs, the case was heard, and the line item veto was declared unconstitutional.

 

[Bill]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I love it. Bill trots out the death panels argument again. Bill, you get the Knuckledragger of the Day award. Congratulations!

You seem to have missed the main point of the article which is where the so called deficit reduction comes from.

 

[Plante26]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Methinks you're just a wee bit biased.

You calling me racist?

I am biased against ignorance. Anyone who thinks that the concessions in this bill will come to fruition is on crack. Obama, in less than a year, has proven that he has absolutely zero follow through on his word. Guantanamo? Not even close to closed. Line-by-line through the federal budget? Still waiting for Obama's attention. Pulling the troops from Iraq? They're still there in huge numbers. So what makes you think that he's actually going to root out the waste/fraud/abuse from Medicare to realize the likely overstated benefits of this health care debacle?

Nothing the government touches gets less expensive. Ever. You can't name one thing that is run more efficiently when the gov't in involved. And it kills me that you have this much faith in government when they've botched such giant programs as Medicare, Social Security and Fannie/Freddie. Hell, they couldn't get Cash for Clunkers to work well, and that was only $2 billion dollars. And now they're getting their fingers directly into a full one-sixth of our economy.

Of course, you can't just sue - you must have standing to bring suit. Right after they passed the line item veto, there were several lawsuits against it - which were rejected due to a lack of standing. Once Clinton actually used the line item veto, an aggrieved party then sued, several other parties filed briefs, the case was heard, and the line item veto was declared unconstitutional.

As soon as taxpayer money is diverted to the program, I would have to imagine that then would be the time a lawsuit could be brought.

 

[Plante26]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Of course, you can't just sue - you must have standing to bring suit. Right after they passed the line item veto, there were several lawsuits against it - which were rejected due to a lack of standing. Once Clinton actually used the line item veto, an aggrieved party then sued, several other parties filed briefs, the case was heard, and the line item veto was declared unconstitutional.

Also: On a non-sarcastic note, I have seen several times that there are provisions in the bill to cap insurance company profits and limit executive compensation. I can't believe that this would be legal, but I am by far not well-versed in constitutional law. Can someone please explain the constitutional legality of these provisions?

 

[solovsfett]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Wow, its a full fledged drooling knuckledragger convention out here. Yaba daba doooooo!


Lets address a few of the (bizarre) points raised out here by our righty friends:

1) The notion that this is unconstitutional is as realistic as those lawsuits against the govt's right to levy federal income taxes. While the argument my stir the glands of neo-cons, it has no basis in reality and gets shot down repeatedly. Back when the Louisiana Purchase was being completed, the ideological forebearers of the current do-nothing Republicans made the argument, all the way to the Supreme Court, that nothing in the Constitution authorized Jefferson to do this. His argument, that nothing in the Constitution prohibited this, hence its legality, won out.

2) I'm terribly amused by the stupidity of the anti-health care arguments. As nobody has taken up the question of the last time a GOP Congress enacted a deficit reduction bill, lets move on to other matters. If a bill can cover 30M more people, all the while reducing the debt by trillions, is that not better than the current system, and far better than anything the opposition party has ever producted? Yes, and yes. Lets say the bill, 5 years down the road, has something that needs adjusting. Then go ahead and do it. The heavy lifting is already done.

3) It amazed me how do-nothing and petty the GOP has become. Maybe we should have seen this coming with the death panels argument, but really the depth to which that party has sunk is amazing. Even funnier is the notion that its the Dems fault this bill isn't bipartisan. They spent 9 months negotiating in the Finance Committee and got nothing out of it for their troubles, all the while the people they're negotiating with are raising money by claiming they're helping to defeat the bill.

This article does a good job summing up how this all played out....

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-plank/the-republican-health-care-blunder

You haven't addressed very basic points.

But I'll just give you one.

Are you willing to have a tax increase on your personal income to 50-55% to pay for this?

I'm not willing to pay for this. That is what this is all about for me personally. I don't want to have my income taxed a further 17 to 24% to pay for YOUR personal preference of having government run our health care.

And on the constitutional issue you bring up with the name-calling, I prefer FREEDOM OF CHOICE. That's what I want (no pun intended this time).

If I choose to not purchase insurace the gov't doesn't have a right to fine me. You're basing your argument on the "Charter of Negative liberties" theory offered by Saul Alinsky which is furthering Karl Marx ideals re: the US Constitution.

If I choose to purchase insurance I want my choices, and I prefer them privately held companies. If you want gov't to spoon feed you, then take it. Why force it on those who don't want it?

 

[gregg729]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Hey Gregg. Eff off. Take your condescension with you.

And BTW, bottom line, if this law passes, it is constitutional, until and if the Supreme Court says it isn't.

No matter what you think about it. Get over yourself.

I only condescend those who I think are utter morons.

And BTW, bottom line, there's a couple documents called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights you should read before spouting off. You are really stupid, buddy. Educate yourself before talking to me again.

The Constitution clearly prohibits criminalizing American citizens for refusing to buy health insurance. Anyone that disagrees with this is a moron and a liberal. Period.

Read something rufus.

 

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Didn't mean to imply you were a Repub, just making a note of their obstructionism.

How can there be obstructionism when the Dems hold the majority? Are you saying that Dems never obstructed? Hee hee hee.

You also forgot to pull a Reid and proclaim we [Republicans] are for slavery... even though it was a Republican who abolished slavery. Yes silly liberals, do not let facts get in your way!

Healthcare is a commodity, and should remain a commodity.

The problem with healthcare, was 60 or so years ago, a liberal said, "...let's give everyone healthcare!" Now we have this mess. However, being from a family of TRADITIONALISTS, I was taught values (unlike some of you God-less anti-Americans here), and I pay for my own healthcare, and I am saving in a 401 and stocks for my retirement (I am not counting on Social Security). I am not counting on the government to save me. I do not want the the government in my house, in my life, and I certainly do not want to depend on the government for healthcare.

Work hard, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, unlike liberals who want to enslave minorities with entitlements. Earlier in a thread below, a guy said all Republicans do is complain; I do not think that is true. However I do see all all liberals being over-educated whites with a lot of money who want to level the playing field for minorities due to white guilt. There is no gain for society, in supporting such a minor few; but hey, it makes liberals feel good.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Tell me you're kidding. How would we settle said bet? See, remember how Clinton passed that little deficit reduction bill in '93, and then remember how the deficit actually went down? Then remember how the knucks' were saying it was because of actions Reagan had taken 15 years earlier? Somehow, I can see a similar situation unfolding here, even if I'm unfortunate enough to still be conversing with you 10 years hence.

PS - If you're going to fork over 10 G's, you'd better start saving up. I'm not sure how lucrative being unemployed and living with your mother is, but she must be giving you one h e ll of an allowance to be making these kinds of wagers.

Its quite simple really. They currently track how much the gov't spends on healthcare and can see how it contributes to the deficit. I have no doubt they will continue to do so in the future. It should be fairly easy to see if they actually cut $470B from Medicare and if the total bill only costs $900B.

I am fully willing to put our wager down on paper and make it legally binding. You keep slurping Obama and the Dems so why don't you put your money where your mouth is.