ObamaRama 8

[walrus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Entitlements for Illegals! Ooops, I mean "undocumented workers".

Once Obama pushes Amnesty done our throats, they won't be illegals. I wonder if the CBO took that into consideration when looking at all the savings the health bill will provide

 

[Handyman]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I was not attacking the left for that. I am attacking the liberals for being so anti-Christian.

Yes because being so Pro-Christian has been a great thing for the GOP...they are as Christian as I am.

Speaking of which, why should any party be "Christian" that is going to turn off large segments of the population and of course seems to go against the whole "Church and State" ideal. Political Parties should leave religion out of this crap...it would certainly make them look less stupid when they are caught sinning left and right.

 

[Handyman]

Re: ObamaRama 8

It's an imperfect bill, to be sure, but it is a marked improvement over the status quo and will only be improved upon in the future.

How is it a "marked improvement". How do you know it will be improved upon in the future?

Better question...if it is flawed why not just rework it and, oh I don't know take out the flaws? Why are they passing this in a rush? It wont be implemented for a couple years anyways, why the sudden need to vote for it OMGASAP!!!11!! No one seems to be getting what they want and the bill is pretty much nothing that was promised.

This is crap, it is a BS political move so they can say they made a move. It is smoke and mirrors.

 

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I wonder if the CBO took that into consideration when looking at all the savings the health bill will provide

Does anyone know how often the CBO is actually right? Because I kind of remember their estimate being slightly off with that little tunnel project in Boston a few years ago.

 

[MattS]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Does anyone know how often the CBO is actually right?

Almost never?

 

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: ObamaRama 8

It's an imperfect bill, to be sure, but it is a marked improvement over the status quo and will only be improved upon in the future.

I disagree; I think what America needs is a Health Care Regulation. Regulation in hospitals, insurance companies, and pharma/med device companies. However, truth be told neither side will touch it for special interest reasons, but they'll force this Obama-Care on the US. The cost, obviously of Obama-Care, will be much greater on the American taxpayer - if it were not, dont'cha think the righties/lefties in administrations prior would have passed such a plan?!?

Let's not forget that most hospitals are profit organizations/businesses. No one does anything for free (i.e., union nurses, doctors, medical supply companies, etc.) less the idealistic liberals who want, wish and will an equal setting for all minorities via entitlements.

If illegals were not clogging up ERs, things might be a tad bit better. If America is so bad, then why do all these illegals come here? Oh, to do the work we Americans do not want to do; I forgot!

 

[blockski]

Re: ObamaRama 8

How is it a "marked improvement". How do you know it will be improved upon in the future?

Better question...if it is flawed why not just rework it and, oh I don't know take out the flaws? Why are they passing this in a rush? It wont be implemented for a couple years anyways, why the sudden need to vote for it OMGASAP!!!11!! No one seems to be getting what they want and the bill is pretty much nothing that was promised.

This is crap, it is a BS political move so they can say they made a move. It is smoke and mirrors.

Change is incremental. It's much easier to change a bill that's already in place and improve on it than it is to go for the perfect bill from the get-go. We see this all the time. The Clean Air Act was largely useless, but later improved. Social Security, likewise, had some major initial flaws but was also improved.

This is the way things work.

When I see complaints like this, I can't help but think they're either ignorant of the way legislation is crafted in this country or purposefully obtuse about the process in order to try and kill the bill. When it comes from the Republicans, I know exactly which camp to put them in, but from common citizens I'm not sure.

 

[Rover]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Once Obama pushes Amnesty done our throats, they won't be illegals. I wonder if the CBO took that into consideration when looking at all the savings the health bill will provide

Gov Palin??? Is that you?

Does anyone know how often the CBO is actually right? Because I kind of remember their estimate being slightly off with that little tunnel project in Boston a few years ago.

Cut the crap and post a poll were Rasmussen has the public against the Plan 99-1, give or take a % point. (100-0 if you discount the illegal immigrants )

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Yes because being so Pro-Christian has been a great thing for the GOP...they are as Christian as I am.

Speaking of which, why should any party be "Christian" that is going to turn off large segments of the population and of course seems to go against the whole "Church and State" ideal. Political Parties should leave religion out of this crap...it would certainly make them look less stupid when they are caught sinning left and right.

It's especially annoying from the Christian perspective: why should the political parties make such a big deal out of their faith? Per the Gospels, political power is the very thing that Christ rejected ("My Kingdom is not of this Earth", etc.), so why make such a religious fuss over something as petty as government?

 

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Yes because being so Pro-Christian has been a great thing for the GOP...they are as Christian as I am.

Speaking of which, why should any party be "Christian" that is going to turn off large segments of the population and of course seems to go against the whole "Church and State" ideal. Political Parties should leave religion out of this crap...it would certainly make them look less stupid when they are caught sinning left and right.

Screw liberals, really. America was founded on Christian values, and I remember when Bill Clinton was in trouble he'd be leaving his church with Hillary clutching a Holy Bible - nice [repentant] photo op!

You know what... most Americans do not want or like those San Francisco values touted by the liberals. Liberals tend to spend, and stand for big government. Can you tell me how many czars there are now?

 

[MinnFan]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I thought the whole point of health care reform was to get costs under control. Interesting then that they passed a bill that doesn't bring costs down.

BTW Rover -
I will bet you $10,000 that 10 yrs from now not only will the bill fall short of the deficit reduction projections, but it will increase the deficit.

 

[MattS]

Re: ObamaRama 8

BTW Rover -
I will bet you $10,000 that 10 yrs from now not only will the bill fall short of the deficit reduction projections, but it will increase the deficit.

Can I get in on this action? Is Rover giving you giving odds or is it straight up?

 

[unofan]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Screw liberals, really. America was founded on Christian values, and I remember when Bill Clinton was in trouble he'd be leaving his church with Hillary clutching a Holy Bible - nice [repentant] photo op!

You know what... most Americans do not want or like those San Francisco values touted by the liberals. Liberals tend to spend, and stand for big government. Can you tell me how many czars there are now?

Obvious troll is obvious. I'm just sad I took the bait earlier.

Worst part is this is the party-line of the GOP. It's also the reason any fiscal conservative with any brains whatsoever calls themselves an independant these days.

 

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Obvious troll is obvious. I'm just sad I took the bait earlier.

Worst part is this is the party-line of the GOP. It's also the reason any fiscal conservative with any brains whatsoever calls themselves an independant these days.

We all can't be God-less liberals like yourself. Good luck, oh, Merry Chirstmas!

 

[Foxton]

Re: ObamaRama 8

We all can't be God-less liberals like yourself. Good luck, oh, Merry Chirstmas!

Yes Merry Christmas, maybe you should actually take a look back at the history of celebrations on December 25th. Then again, your assertion that America was founded on christian principles shows how well that would work out.

 

[Priceless]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I'm glad I looked in this thread so I could learn unofan is a Godless liberal. Learn something new everyday.

 

[gregg729]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I have read it, several times. Congress passes laws - that's what they do. They occasionally pass laws that someone thinks are unconsitutional, those laws are challenged in the courts, and eventually the Supreme Court offers their judgment.

Also, as unofan notes above - the Constitution alone doesn't tell you much, you need to look at the long body of jurisprudence that's been assembled. Rest assured, under the interpretations of the Commerce Clause, Congress most certainly has the ability to pass this legislation, and it will be held up if challenged.

I doubt you will EVER set your eyes upon the Constitution once in your entire life block, I'd put money on that.

That aside, you are obviously confused about what I am saying. I will use simple words - read this slowly, and then reread it.

Health care legislation is unconstitutional. One of the brighter liberals even pointed out to which part of the Constitution this bill is unambiquously and unequivocally (sorry for the big words) trampling on. I never said anything about Congress not being ABLE to do it, I just pointed out a very clear fact to anyone that's read the Constitution - this health care bill IS outright unconstitutional. You can maintain that whatever the Congress does is constitutional if you choose, but that just makes you even more wrong.

Wow, its a full fledged drooling knuckledragger convention out here. Yaba daba doooooo!


Lets address a few of the (bizarre) points raised out here by our righty friends:

1) The notion that this is unconstitutional is as realistic as those lawsuits against the govt's right to levy federal income taxes. While the argument my stir the glands of neo-cons, it has no basis in reality and gets shot down repeatedly. Back when the Louisiana Purchase was being completed, the ideological forebearers of the current do-nothing Republicans made the argument, all the way to the Supreme Court, that nothing in the Constitution authorized Jefferson to do this. His argument, that nothing in the Constitution prohibited this, hence its legality, won out.

2) I'm terribly amused by the stupidity of the anti-health care arguments. As nobody has taken up the question of the last time a GOP Congress enacted a deficit reduction bill, lets move on to other matters. If a bill can cover 30M more people, all the while reducing the debt by trillions, is that not better than the current system, and far better than anything the opposition party has ever producted? Yes, and yes. Lets say the bill, 5 years down the road, has something that needs adjusting. Then go ahead and do it. The heavy lifting is already done.

Oh, so it's really a deficit reduction bill we're talking about? That's some brilliant spin. So then, I guess the GOP's lack of a successful deficit reduction bill is because they can't put a very obvious 2 and 2 together - anyone with a brain knows that the only way to reduce a deficit is to force millions onto a socialized health care plan, that connection is staring us right in the face, isn't it? It's so obvious! Did you really just say that? Dope.

(lol honestly, rover - it's not like you're ever on the right side of an issue, where do you get that conceit from? You really are a step or two down from the average product of Mass secondary education. )

 

[blockski]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I doubt you will EVER set your eyes upon the Constitution once in your entire life block, I'd put money on that.

I'll take that bet. A fool and his money are soon parted...

Keep digging, gregg. Not only have I read the Constitution multiple times, I've even read the original copy. One of the perks of living here in DC.

That aside, you are obviously confused about what I am saying. I will use simple words - read this slowly, and then reread it.

Health care legislation is unconstitutional. One of the brighter liberals even pointed out to which part of the Constitution this bill is unambiquously and unequivocally (sorry for the big words) trampling on. I never said anything about Congress not being ABLE to do it, I just pointed out a very clear fact to anyone that's read the Constitution - this health care bill IS outright unconstitutional. You can maintain that whatever the Congress does is constitutional if you choose, but that just makes you even more wrong.

Now let me say this - you can think and opine that this is unconstitutional all you want, but it would most certainly pass muster based on the current jurisprudence of the US Supreme Court.

If this is your standard for unconstitutional laws, then I think you'll be sorely disappointed to find out that a wide range of our laws are a) unconstitutional based on your criteria, and b) have explicitly passed Constitutional muster by the US Supreme Court.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. Doesn't mean it has any relevance.

 

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Hey kids, time to sing our song of praise to our dear leader:

"Barack Hussein Obama mmm mmm mmm..."

Yeesh - I think I just threw up in my mouth.

 

[unofan]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I'm glad I looked in this thread so I could learn unofan is a Godless liberal.

Yeah, I would think most people on here would find that one funny. I think universal health care is probably the best option of the numerous bad ones out there at this point in time. Oh and rather than burying my head in the sand and ignoring it, I recognize that a coming demographic shift as the Selfish Generation dies off will mean gay marriage will be allowed down the road. Therefore, I must be a liberal commie bastard. All my other political leanings don't matter at all.

Health care legislation is unconstitutional. One of the brighter liberals even pointed out to which part of the Constitution this bill is unambiquously and unequivocally (sorry for the big words) trampling on.

Whether it should be Constitutional or not is debatable. The fact remains, given SCOTUS precedent, it's very, very likely it will be deemed Constitutional nonetheless.