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Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I sort of agree with you here. And I live in a bad state for that. It takes a while to get used to seeing the occasional young couple shopping at Target, and he's packing heat. Any time there's a mass shooting somewhere, somebody wonders what would have happened if some of the "good guys" were armed. I've already seen at least one such article in the wake of the Norway shootings. Take the massacre at Virginia Tech. Any number of people speculated that if some of those Hokies were armed, they could have plugged Woo Tang Clan and put a stop to it. That would have been wonderful. But what the gun advocates never consider is those armed college kids could have just as easily shot each other (cops do it, why shouldn't guys in ATO?).

Ya. If you agree that as a moral compass issue...human life is top priority. You pretty much have to say there's a better way than existing laws.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Ya. If you agree that as a moral compass issue...human life is top priority. You pretty much have to say there's a better way than existing laws.

Let's just hypothesize that we wanted to eliminate the 2nd amendment. No more guns. No more NEW guns. What do we do with the tens of milliions of guns that are already out there? Some of the people endlessly referred to as "law abiding" would certainly comply with any requirement to turn their guns in. But what about the millions who wouldn't? Confiscation? Probable cause? Talk about a nightmare.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Ya. If you agree that as a moral compass issue...human life is top priority. You pretty much have to say there's a better way than existing laws.
Idiot, life is only sacred up until birth. After that you're on your own.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Until you are military age...then life is just sacred enough for you to sacrifice it for our country!
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Until you are military age...then life is just sacred enough for you to sacrifice it for our country!

Unless you're a Republican...then you have to stay home and fight the more important social battles.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Until you are military age...then life is just sacred enough for you to sacrifice it for our country!

Why do you hate America? What else could possibly explain such a post? You are aware we have an all volunteer military, right? Or hasn't that news made it to your local IWW chapter? We Americans refer to people willing to sacrifice or even risk their lives for this country as heroes. What do you call them in Handymanistan?
 
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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Unless you're a Republican...then you have to stay home and fight the more important social battles.

Oh, Peeless, smearing,intolerance and above all snark, all in one post. That's good, even for you. Got any evidence? Or just your customary bigotry and prejudices?
 
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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

So I am guessing Mr. Stalin probably posted in response to my statement...still doesnt interest me enough to view his drivel though :D

I better get off his lawn before he revokes my sanctity of life ;)
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

So I am guessing Mr. Stalin probably posted in response to my statement...still doesnt interest me enough to view his drivel though :D

I better get off his lawn before he revokes my sanctity of life ;)

No, no, no. I'll just sic my toy poodle on you. Now if we could just get you to "shut up." I know, we'll put UNOfan on the case, he's the expert. :rolleyes:
 
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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Let's just hypothesize that we wanted to eliminate the 2nd amendment. No more guns. No more NEW guns. What do we do with the tens of milliions of guns that are already out there? Some of the people endlessly referred to as "law abiding" would certainly comply with any requirement to turn their guns in. But what about the millions who wouldn't? Confiscation? Probable cause? Talk about a nightmare.

I am of the opinion that pretty much nothing is good in extreme.

I think the 2nd amendment has its place...and its in the home (and on deer hunts). And that fully adheres to the principles of the founding fathers when they wrote the 2nd amendment:

"The Second Amendment was debated and modified during sessions of the House on in late August of 1789. These debates revolved primarily around risk of "mal-administration of the government" using the "religiously scrupulous" clause to destroy the militia as Great Britain had attempted to destroy the militia at the commencement of the American Revolution."

Gun ownership targets the 2nds intent. I have yet to see any evidence that the intention was for citizens to have guns to shoot at other citizens.

To your theoretical point, guns on every person on the street does not protect human lives. It does put them at risk. My thinking is...what is society's priority here? IMO its life while respecting the founding fathers ideals.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I'm not sure how many more killing sprees will need to happen before guns outside the home gets the the rep it deserves. Unfortunately, others will die in the process.

Gun carriage laws need to respect the Constitution...while acknowledging that guns do not make streets safer. In other words, keep em in the home already (with allowances for the rare case of hunting). It appears that more publicized acts of violence will need to occur before society's wishes overwhelm Gun lobby special interests (and the 28%ers).

I am very anti "anti-gun" but I get the point. I don't feel there should be zero restrictions yet I have no problem with stopping joe blow from being able to buy a rocket launcher. That said I am not convinced the current state of gun laws in this country had any bearing on this tragedy.
 
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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Automobiles? Just how is someone choosing to make a decision to put their own life at risk (out of economic necessity) the same as giving someone the power to kill you if they desire?
Apparently you've never heard of road rage, drunk driving, or vehicular homicide/manslaughter.

I'm far more concerned about being injured/killed in a traffic accident than being shot. Then again, I'm not exactly the hysterical type and generally have a fair grasp of the concept of probability. But go ahead, continue your wild-eyed crusade against the gun-toting boogeymen of American society.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Among other considerations: we have a Second Amendment and the supremes have recently held it means individuals have a right to own firearms, not just "militias." Apart from the .22s at Riverview Park in Chicago, the only weapons I've fired were in the military. I don't even know anyone who has a gun (to the best of my knowledge).

Paraphrasing Dennis Miller: when did the NRA become so freakin' cranky? I can remember when they were in the business of preserving our shooting heritage. Fathers handing down the pleasure of shooting sports to sons. Now they're completely out of their minds, referring to murdered ATF agents in Waco as "jackbooted government thugs" after they were killed trying to serve a legal warrant.

The flip side to that are the rabid anti-gun types. Is it Carolyn McCarthy who has been working assiduously to get everyone's gun taken away since her husband was shot dead on the LIRR? Horrible tragedy no doubt, but we have a 2nd Amendment and it applies to private citizens whether she and her allies like it or not.

I've told the story before about the Omaha kids coming home from hs one day and hanging out at a friend's house. Up to the point where one of 'em found a loaded .45 on top of the refrigerator--one dead teenager. I once interviewed a Houston surgeon after a cluster of child shootings. Several of them were his patients and he explained that little kids are usually hit in the face when the gun they're examining goes off. That usually means the ones who survive are left with brain damage and/or hideous facial injuries. This is all annecdotal, of course. The over whelming majority of gun owners take the required precautions. And they are doubtless embarrassed by the rhetorical excesses of the gun lobby.

I have no evidence to prove it, but I suspect most of the people who get concealed carry permits don't need them. They are at very low risk of running into a situation where they've got to slap leather to stay alive. Conversly, the people who live in neighborhoods where there are a lot of shootings usually don't have the permits, for a variety of reasons. Of course, that doesn't mean they aren't carrying. Seems like lots of 'em do.

To me, the thing that has changed dramatically, is the willingness of very young people to shoot and kill other very young people with whom they're having some silly beef. It is now SOP for some young folks to pack heat when heading to a hs football game, or prom or some other gathering. And if they get into some adolescent chest bumping, pull that sucker out and start blasting. There was a Chicago Bear player a couple of years ago who got into trouble with the league because his bodyguard shot and killed somebody in a bar. Dude, you mean there's no place you can have a drink and get a bj without carrying a gun or having a bodyguard? Stay home. Order out.

And then there are the guys who blast a roomful of innocent people for a variety of reasons then usually kill themselves. We've seen several examples of this in recent weeks. Inevitably, after one of these tragedies, the anti-gun types dust off their favorite proposals and offer them as "solutions" to the problem. If enacted, these proposals wouldn't reduce the liklihood of similar tragedies one iota, but that doesn't stop the anti-gun types, who never miss an opportunity to advocate proscribing other people's rights.

Finally, that insistence by pro gun types to suggest that things would have turned out differently if the "good guys" had been packing. We saw that after Virginia Tech and in '91 when that guy drove his pickup into Luby's in Killeen and began shooting. That's what you would call a target rich environment. And maybe some civilian would have gotten off a shot to stop that guy. But it seems just as likely he would have hit my mother, having her senior citizens diet plate. Pass.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Apparently you've never heard of road rage, drunk driving, or vehicular homicide/manslaughter.

I'm far more concerned about being injured/killed in a traffic accident than being shot. Then again, I'm not exactly the hysterical type and generally have a fair grasp of the concept of probability. But go ahead, continue your wild-eyed crusade against the gun-toting boogeymen of American society.

Sorry to be so windy tonight. But I've got to agree. Several Christmases ago my mother, brother, sister in law and I almost got killed when some drunk old bag plowed through a red light and barely missed us. It was about 9 PM on a Wednesday night and she was already double drunk, with several previous DUI's. There are lots of people who drive drunk all the time, not just after they've had one too many at the company Christmas party.

A few years ago the president of my fraternity at DU lost his fiance because of a drunk driver. She was on the volleyball team and was celebrating the end of the season (no booze). The drunk was in the wrong lane and hit the girls head on as they drove back to campus. The victim was ejected through the windshield from the back seat. This was a terrific girl whom I'd met. The boy was a straight A student and Eagle Scout. As seems to always be the case, the drunk wasn't seriously hurt and was trying to drive away from the scene when the cops arrived. Long history of DUI's.
 
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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Apparently you've never heard of road rage, drunk driving, or vehicular homicide/manslaughter.

So your logic is that we shouldn't care about gun homicide...because people die in car accidents also? Youre really going with this logic?

Try again.

Then again, I'm not exactly the hysterical type and generally have a fair grasp of the concept of probability. But go ahead, continue your wild-eyed crusade against the gun-toting boogeymen of American society.

Talk about hysterical. How many adults are afraid of driving a car?

I'm far more concerned about being injured/killed in a traffic accident than being shot.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

So your logic is that we shouldn't care about gun homicide...because people die in car accidents also? Youre really going with this logic?
No, I'm saying if you want to advocate limiting something to people's houses on the basis of it being a danger and a public threat, then you have to apply that to other things that are also a public threat. Car crashes kill a lot of people, and many of those are linked to alcohol. Does this mean we should also place severe restrictions on cars and alcohol (i.e. not allow alcohol consumption outside the home since that implies driving after consumption)? And if not, how do you justify the inconsistent approach to two dangerous items?
Talk about hysterical. How many adults are afraid of driving a car?
I'm guessing very few are afraid to drive, however, I am also guessing a large number are afraid of what other drivers may or may not do. I probably have a close call at least once a month on my commute involving somebody doing something stupid (turning out in front of me without looking, lane-changing without signaling, etc). All I'm trying to do here is show you how nutty you are for worrying so much about guns. You'll probably get in at least one car accident in your life (if you haven't already), but it's doubtful anything gun-related is ever going to happen to you.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

All I'm trying to do here is show you how nutty you are for worrying so much about guns. You'll probably get in at least one car accident in your life (if you haven't already), but it's doubtful anything gun-related is ever going to happen to you.

This is a poor argument. In Arizona the odds are greater that you'll be killed by your spouse than by a rattlesnake*. People are still wary of rattlesnakes.

(* This is a true fun fact, brought to my attention by my wife, since we are going to Tucson for vacation. Or perhaps she was sending a different message.)
 
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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

In Arizona the odds are greater that you'll be killed by your spouse than by a rattlesnake*. People are still wary of rattlesnakes.
So should spouses be kept separate for their own safety? :p
 
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