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Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

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Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I don't think you see what he is saying at all. He is saying that a kid that already would have gone to a private school and cost taxpayers $0 now costs $7000 because they get a voucher.

Okay, you're right, then I really didn't see what he's saying.

If that was what he's saying, I totally disagree. The kids I'm thinking of, the kids the voucher program is for, would not have already gone to private schools. They couldn't afford it. The voucher program enables them to do so. So it's taking a kid out of public schools and placing him or her in private ones.
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Okay, you're right, then I really didn't see what he's saying.

If that was what he's saying, I totally disagree. The kids I'm thinking of, the kids the voucher program is for, would not have already gone to private schools. They couldn't afford it. The voucher program enables them to do so. So it's taking a kid out of public schools and placing him or her in private ones.

But by removing the income cap completely the voucher program will be paying for the kids who were going already. A more sensible solution would be to raise the income cap to a reasonable level, not remove it.
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

But by removing the income cap completely the voucher program will be paying for the kids who were going already. A more sensible solution would be to raise the income cap to a reasonable level, not remove it.

Exactly. This will end up saving lots of rich people lots of money. No income cap basically makes the vouchers another cash saving venture for the rich...and wait who supports it again? Dont tell me the GOP backs this I would be so surprised ;)

pirate,

You dont need a Masters to teach, the licensure is part of a Masters program. As of now, I have my license but no Masters. Most of the classes dont deal with content stuff, it is Educational Psychology, Special Education and how to set up units and actually teach. I know people think you just walk into a class and start teaching but that is not even close to it. (try making a unit plan sometime, I thought it would be cake it was HARD) Imagine the post grad work is like getting a 2 year degree in a trade.

In fact, you are flat out told not to finish your Masters until you absolutely have to. See the union has screwed it up to the point that the more educated you are, the less likely you are to get a job. Districts need to pay people with Masters more than they have to pay people with just licenses. It is ridiculous and it is one of the reasons I plan to finish my Masters and just teach in college. The system is such a joke and neither side wants to actually fix it.

Note: not all states require this. I know in Arizona you can teach while in the license program and a few other states have similar rules. Teach for America obviously does the same thing but personally I think it is BS. (I admit I am biased)
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

http://dane101.com/current/2011/03/..._chased_trapped_by_hecklers_saved_by_dem_rep_

I hate to interrupt this discussion, but please watch this tape of union goons doing what comes naturally. About two minutes or so in, a Democrat has to intervene to protect a Republican. Who knows what might have happened if he hadn't been there. These demonstrations, and the goons participating in them have been describned as "peaceful." Well, by the established standards of union goonery they have been. No one's been assassinated, had acid thrown in their faces or had bones broken. . .yet. IMO, it's just a matter of time.

Why is there no state police protection for a duly elected state senator merely going to work?
 
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Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

But by removing the income cap completely the voucher program will be paying for the kids who were going already. A more sensible solution would be to raise the income cap to a reasonable level, not remove it.

You're right, raising the cap would have been the better solution.

At the same time, while the scenario you present is definitely something that could happen. , I don't think it likely.

Again, surely if our government can be trusted to run a health care system, they can be trusted to weed out non-needy applicants from a voucher program, right?
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Our government cant be trusted to tie their own shoes lets not pretend otherwise ok.
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

You're right, raising the cap would have been the better solution.

At the same time, while the scenario you present is definitely something that could happen. , I don't think it likely.

Again, surely if our government can be trusted to run a health care system, they can be trusted to weed out non-needy applicants from a voucher program, right?

Not likely? ROTFLMAO
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Teacher rattles a desk to get kids attention in a math class, some little idiot gets startled and calls 911 on the guy. Teacher gets suspended with pay, kid probably gets an award. Unreal, kid should get a warrant for misuse of 911 system, teacher should be teaching to kids who want to learn. BTW the average house cost in the town is like 4 million.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110302/ap_on_re_us/us_teacher_table_rattling
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Teacher rattles a desk to get kids attention in a math class, some little idiot gets startled and calls 911 on the guy. Teacher gets suspended with pay, kid probably gets an award. Unreal, kid should get a warrant for misuse of 911 system, teacher should be teaching to kids who want to learn. BTW the average house cost in the town is like 4 million.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110302/ap_on_re_us/us_teacher_table_rattling

HaHa. I had an algebra teacher who by this standard would have been sent to Alcatraz. Miss Hawkins, known to one an all as "The Hawk." She roamed around the classroom and was like radar, locating students not paying attention. Their reward? She'd zing an eraser across the room with breathtaking accuracy and smack them in the head with it. Usually it only took one time to get that thwack and the resulting cloud of yellow dust to make you a true believer.
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Teacher rattles a desk to get kids attention in a math class, some little idiot gets startled and calls 911 on the guy. Teacher gets suspended with pay, kid probably gets an award. Unreal, kid should get a warrant for misuse of 911 system, teacher should be teaching to kids who want to learn. BTW the average house cost in the town is like 4 million.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110302/ap_on_re_us/us_teacher_table_rattling

On more than one occasion my high school choir director was inspired to pick up his steel music stand with the iron base and throw it over the heads of the students on the risers. I thought it was funny at the time, but geezus, a couple feet lower and he could have actually killed somebody. He had a bit of a temper, not that he wasn't provoked. A couple of the basses needed killing.
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

On more than one occasion my high school choir director was inspired to pick up his steel music stand with the iron base and throw it over the heads of the students on the risers.

Either we had the same guy, or that's a common choir morale booster.

Makes one helluva noise in a cinderblock room.
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

My first thought after reading ths was "Why?". Why do they need masters degrees etc? Most are teaching 11 year old kids not grad students.
I think the main reason is that educating younger kids has got to be a lot tougher than educating older kids. Sure, the older kids can give you more lip, but at the end of the day, understanding the psychology of a younger child is a lot more difficult.

I guess that doesn't answer why they would need a masters' degree, but I can certainly understand the importance of having well trained teachers for younger students, whereas my BS in mechanical engineering is probably more than enough for me to teach high school physics, calculus, or... well... gym.
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

My first thought after reading ths was "Why?". Why do they need masters degrees etc? Most are teaching 11 year old kids not grad students. I'm willing to get a lot of flak on this one but I would suggest that the first thing a teacher needs is the ability to teach kids things and the passion to do it, not an advanced degree. Running them all through grad school (and I know they do a bunch of field work) would seem to produce people at the end who can handle more years of school vs. great teachers. And frankly, I think I could determine if somebody had the ability to teach in a 30 minute interview, not by reviewing their grad school transcript.

That's just it. I don't think you can.

Can you get a sense of whether someone would be a decent corporate trainer, dealing with other professionals? Maybe. Can you get a sense of how well they interact with students of whatever age, in all the sorts of classroom situations that arise? No way.

Your solution is cutting off your nose to spite your face. If there are problems with the programs that train teachers, the solution is to fix those problems -- not to let in anyone with a Bachelor's degree and enough charisma to con their way through a short interview.

Sure, there are examples of good teachers without master's degrees, and lousy teachers with. But I think when you set policy its better to play the averages than to play to anecdotes. Training requirements are a selection device. Lower the requirements, and you get an increased proportion of potential deadbeat teachers. Make job candidates demonstrate a commitment to the vocation, and gain classroom experience, and you weed out the folks who aren't serious about the job. You also weed out those who meant well, but realized that the classroom wasn't for them. Better for them to learn that before they take a job.

If you're concerned about too much dead weight in public education, you want job candidates who have options -- folks who are choosing to teach because they want to, not just because it pays marginally better than waiting tables at the local Olive Garden.

Incidentally, this explains why there were fewer requirements "back in the day." Because back in the day, women didn't have many career options, and very few went to grad school. There was no point. So you had teachers with bachelor's degrees.

Of course, there were also more "teachers colleges" back in the day, and those graduates still had more training in teaching than the average person with a 4-year degree today.
 
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Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Maybe that is the solution: bring back the teacher colleges.
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

That's just it. I don't think you can.

Can you get a sense of whether someone would be a decent corporate trainer, dealing with other professionals? Maybe. Can you get a sense of how well they interact with students of whatever age, in all the sorts of classroom situations that arise? No way.
Isn't that what student teaching is for? Masters degrees mean diddly in most cases. I can see them if you're teaching high school honors classes. A Masters for a 1st grade teacher seems overkill to me.

Edit:, no matter what parenting is the biggest issue in our schools, when parents give a ____ , students will do better
 
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Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Isn't that what student teaching is for? Masters degrees mean diddly in most cases. I can see them if you're teaching high school honors classes. A Masters for a 1st grade teacher seems overkill to me.

FedEx would agree with you. :D

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NcoDV0dhWPA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edit:, no matter what parenting is the biggest issue in our schools, when parents give a ____ , students will do better[/QUOTE]

I'm 100% in agreement with you on that point.
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Masters degrees mean diddly in most cases. I can see them if you're teaching high school honors classes. A Masters for a 1st grade teacher seems overkill to me.

I think it's exactly the opposite. The Masters isn't about the subject matter but all the issues of dealing with child development. Dealing with young kids (and their more than likely young parents) takes a lot more knowledge than dealing with children and parents who are closer to adulthood. As a foster parent, the amount of training I got (and needed!) for dealing with the problems of 7 year-olds dwarfed that for 16-year olds.

The inefficiency of modern public education reflects trying to serve all the kids. In the "good old days," you just let the dumb ones, the poor ones, the ones with messed up parents and the ones with disabilities fall behind and eventually drop out. The country needed infantry too. For a variety of reasons, mostly good, the efficient solution is no longer acceptable.
 
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Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I think you're exactly wrong. The Masters isn't about the subject matter but all the issues of dealing with child development.

Thats what parents are for. When they give a ***** kids thrive whether or not the teacher has a PhD or a degree from the school of hard knocks. A teacher can't be all things to all kids, when that happens the ones who are ready to go get left behind.
 
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Thats what parents are for. When they give a ***** kids thrive whether or not the teacher has a PhD or a degree from the school of hard knocks. A teacher can't be all things to all kids, when that happens the ones who are ready to go get left behind.

You mean it's not all the fault of lazy teachers and the evil union?
 
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