Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Of course not. Why not answer my question: why does displaying a bust of Dr.King require returning the Churchill bust? We don't have room in our WH for two heroes? One cancels the other? What? And if, perchance, there's no room in the WH for the Churchill bust, it's not like we don't have lots of other places where it could be displayed. The president gets to chose the decor in his office, why does he choose to put the Churchill bust on the equivalent of the loading dock? Winston not important enough for him?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ton-Churchill-on-its-way-back-to-Britain.html

Actually, the president replaced Churchill with a bust of Lincoln. Who could object to honoring our greatest president? But the question remains, why does it have to be either/or?

Of course having an MLK Jr. bust doesn't mean he can't have a Churchill bust. If Obama painted the decision that way, then that's pretty silly.

But, on the other hand, by sending the bust back, I don't think that's a rejection of Churchill or anything akin to that.

 

[Proud2baLaker]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Not you, obviously. Is it okay with you if some of us discuss it anyway?

But thats my point. He sent back a statue. Big deal. Why does that matter? Why does that need to be discussed? What effect could it possibly have on anything? When things like this are discussed it sounds as if you are just trying to find anything and everything to complain about. But I guess in a thread like this its par for the course.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

But thats my point. He sent back a statue. Big deal. Why does that matter? Why does that need to be discussed? What effect could it possibly have on anything? When things like this are discussed it sounds as if you are just trying to find anything and everything to complain about. But I guess in a thread like this its par for the course.

Britain is our closest and oldest ally. For POTUS to send back a statue of the man they think is the greatest Brit ever, who got honors at his death only the Queen could grant, might be taken as an insult. Of course we wouldn't want to detract from the president's world "grovel and bow" tour, but it might be nice for him to consider the opinions of the Brits. It's his office, I've said he can decorate it any way he wants--why is it necessary to run the risk of offending an old and valuable ally? These things almost never happen in a vacuum, they generally happen for a reason. Everything a president does is political. Everything.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

might be taken as an insult. Of course we wouldn't want to detract from the president's world "grovel and bow" tour, but it might be nice for him to consider the opinions of the Brits.

Do you not see the irony in this? At all?

I would have guessed that you'd be in favor iof a U.S. President decorating the WH however the heck he likes, sensitivities of foreigners notwithstanding.

As for diplomatic flaps, they happen all the time. This is ridiculously far down the list. I think the Brits were a little more pizzed about what they saw as all the BP-bashing last summer.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Do you not see the irony in this? At all?

I would have guessed that you'd be in favor iof a U.S. President decorating the WH however the heck he likes, sensitivities of foreigners notwithstanding.

As for diplomatic flaps, they happen all the time. This is ridiculously far down the list. I think the Brits were a little more pizzed about what they saw as all the BP-bashing last summer.

Well, I've said now twice that it's his office and he's entitled to any decor he wants. There, now I've said it three times. If he wants to replace Churchill with Dr. King or Honest Abe I've got no problem. The point is, removing Churchill from the oval does not require sending it back. Do you get that distinction? As to the sensitivity of foreigners, uh, the Brits are in kind of a different category, wouldn't you think? The Obama administration evidently disagrees, but I suggest most Americans don't.

And this incident, while admittedly minor, is not the only thing on the bill of particulars the Brits are compiling as regards our president:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/n...arack-obama’s-top-10-insults-against-britain/

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Surprised the IPod for the queen gift wasn't on that list. Or the set of DVDs for Gordon Brown that didn't work in UK DVD players.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Surprised the IPod for the queen gift wasn't on that list. Or the set of DVDs for Gordon Brown that didn't work in UK DVD players.

I think the DVD's came in at #8 on the hit parade, no mention of the I-POD. Little things DO mean a lot. And they signify even more.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Our uniformed services are among ou... judgement need be reserved for a later date.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Do we know that this decision wasn't given the serious level of insider forethought you espouse? I've personally spoken with seven members of the ranks and only one expressed reservations (fwiw I admit), although I think it's safe to say judgement need be reserved for a later date.

I prefer that we follow the constitution: the legislative branch passes laws and the executive branch enforces them. Do not conflate the issues here. I've said repeatedly it's time to rescind the ban. I'm also saying one pipsqueak judge shouldn't be the one to make such a decision. I'm guessing she doesn't know a PFC from a PVC. The DOD is an unbelievably complex enterprise, with worldwide obligations and millions of personnel. Is it too much to ask that we take our time here and do this right? Secretary Gates says he wants to wait until a study on the issue he's ordered is completed. What's wrong with that?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I think the DVD's came in at #8 on the hit parade, no mention of the I-POD. Little things DO mean a lot. And they signify even more.

Ah, so they did. What I get for skimming I suppose.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Ah, so they did. What I get for skimming I suppose.

For some of us it's "skimming," for others "a senior moment."

As I've said, everything a president does is political. Take pardoning the Thanksgiving turkey. You can bet your booty that in the future if turkeys become controversial, that beloved WH tradition will go away. I just flashed on the episode of "West Wing" where CJ wound up with both the starting and backup turkeys roosting in her office.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Well, I've said now twice that it's his office and he's entitled to any decor he wants. There, now I've said it three times. If he wants to replace Churchill with Dr. King or Honest Abe I've got no problem. The point is, removing Churchill from the oval does not require sending it back. Do you get that distinction? As to the sensitivity of foreigners, uh, the Brits are in kind of a different category, wouldn't you think? The Obama administration evidently disagrees, but I suggest most Americans don't.

And this incident, while admittedly minor, is not the only thing on the bill of particulars the Brits are compiling as regards our president:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/n...arack-obama’s-top-10-insults-against-britain/

Fair enough on the first point. Obama can do what he wants.

But . . . "the Brits are compiling?" Are you sure that shouldn't read "an attention-hungry British blogger is compiling?"

Look, these slights happen all the time. Some are almost completely inconsequential - like this one. Some are more important. The special relationship survived the Suez crisis; it can survive Churchillbustgate.

On that note, Churchill has rhetorical weight on his side, but Lord Palmerston actually had it right. Nations have no permanent allies, only permanent interests.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

At least we have aircraft carriers with airplanes

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...d-after-three-years-and-never-carry-jets.html

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Fair enough on the first point. Obama can do what he wants.

But . . . "the Brits are compiling?" Are you sure that shouldn't read "an attention-hungry British blogger is compiling?"

Look, these slights happen all the time. Some are almost completely inconsequential - like this one. Some are more important. The special relationship survived the Suez crisis; it can survive Churchillbustgate.

On that note, Churchill has rhetorical weight on his side, but Lord Palmerston actually had it right. Nations have no permanent allies, only permanent interests.

Or in Obama's case, permanent ideologies. There was no reason for him to return that item except that it offended him. He could have put it in a storage case somewhere. He wanted the symbolism of returning the item. Face it, you elected a shallow human and a socialist ideologue. You believed in the message... you had no time for the man and to figure out who he was.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Fair enough on the first point. Obama can do what he wants.

But . . . "the Brits are compiling?" Are you sure that shouldn't read "an attention-hungry British blogger is compiling?"

Look, these slights happen all the time. Some are almost completely inconsequential - like this one. Some are more important. The special relationship survived the Suez crisis; it can survive Churchillbustgate.

On that note, Churchill has rhetorical weight on his side, but Lord Palmerston actually had it right. Nations have no permanent allies, only permanent interests.

Is there no criticism of "the one we've been waiting for," no matter how trivial, that won't bring some people running to the barricades?

Explain this away as you choose, but it's clear to me and not just "one" British blogger (whether or not he craves attention) this administration wants to/has downgraded our relationship with the Brits. For what purpose? What is our interest in that? And because we're weakening our relationship with GB, are we strengthening our ties to, who? The Muslim world? The Third World? Disneyworld?

And your timely reference to the Suez crisis misses the indisputable fact that the world is far more complicated now than it was then. Again, Ike made the call he thought was right. Now, all we're doing is insulting a friend. I ask again, what's in it for us? What's the "big picture" here that I'm missing? Where's the much vaunted "nuance?" Other than ". . .must defend Obama at all costs."

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

At least we have aircraft carriers with airplanes

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...d-after-three-years-and-never-carry-jets.html

Years ago there were two young British comics (don't remember who, imagine that) who did a UN routine. They would sit side by side at a table, rapidly changing printed signs, representing the varous "countires" invoved in a debate. They were talking about space exploration, and at one point one of them said: "may I remind the right honorable gentleman that last week the British space program rolled off the truck and broke?"

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Britain is our closest and oldest ally. .

I thought France was our oldest ally since they supplied and helped us against Britain in our independence war of 1776 and the war of 1812. So Britain would be our oldest enemy and now our friend.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Is there no criticism of "the one we've been waiting for," no matter how trivial, that won't bring some people running to the barricades?

Running to the barricades? All I wanted to do was make clear that this really was "so trivial." Now that it's been established, my work here is done.

Explain this away as you choose, but it's clear to me and not just "one" British blogger (whether or not he craves attention) this administration wants to/has downgraded our relationship with the Brits.

As they have with us. The new PM didn't particularly ingratiate himself to his special partner when he decided to pursue defense budget cuts to attack Britain's deficit.

I'm not going to deny that the "special relationship" is useful. Anything that influences other countries to do what we want them to do without us spending political capital is a useful, and therefore good thing. Just as long as we don't start taking it too literally.

As for defending Obama, you and Patman have the wrong guy. I've never been an Obama cheerleader. Not now, not during the election. On occasion you'll catch me calling out some of the more mindless criticism. But that's just me being elitist, not me being an Obamatron.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

On the financial front the banks are still doling out bonuses up the wazoo.

GS earned $1.78 billion and set aside $3.83 billion for bonuses. So basically the bonuses are 200% of the earnings. must be nice making all this money on the taxpayers backs without any "government interference". And I love how the writers have changed the word bonuses to "compensation".
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Goldm...5.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=7&asset=&ccode=

Goldman set aside $3.83 billion for compensation and benefits during the quarter. It has now set aside $13.12 billion for compensation during the first nine months of the year, a 21 percent drop from the same period last year.

Income fell to $1.74 billion, or $2.98 per share, the bank said Tuesday. It earned $3.03 billion, or $5.25 per share, during the same three-month period last year. Analysts predicted earnings of $2.32 per share.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Running to the barricades? All I wanted to do was make clear that this really was "so trivial." Now that it's been established, my work here is done.

As they have with us. The new PM didn't particularly ingratiate himself to his special partner when he decided to pursue defense budget cuts to attack Britain's deficit.

I'm not going to deny that the "special relationship" is useful. Anything that influences other countries to do what we want them to do without us spending political capital is a useful, and therefore good thing. Just as long as we don't start taking it too literally.

As for defending Obama, you and Patman have the wrong guy. I've never been an Obama cheerleader. Not now, not during the election. On occasion you'll catch me calling out some of the more mindless criticism. But that's just me being elitist, not me being an Obamatron.

Back in the day, when I was doing a talk show, my producer was a young African American lady, about half my age, umarried, with a child. She and I got along famously. One day she said: "you're not a racist, you're an elitist."

We'll just have to disagree whether this (downgrading the relationship, not returning the bust) is a big deal or not. And as far as the new PM is concerned, we started it. Politically it's unreasonable to expect him to suffer these slights without response.