Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

So there you admit it: Sen. Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. Why are you still belittling him?

If you must, belittle another politician, like one who dodged teh draft by arranging a cushy National Guard position.

Flying a single seat jet fighter, at night, over the Gulf of Mexico is not "cushy" and nobody with the least familiarity of flying would describe it as so. JFK, jr lost his life when he became disoriented, flying a low performance aircraft, at night, over water.

Since when did you become so hard on "draft dodgers" anyway? After Bill Clinton wrote his "thank you for saving me from the draft" letter to Col. Holmes at the University of Arkansas?

You quoted me selectively, didn't you, J. Fred? I'm not belittling him, I'm commenting on some loose ends in his record. Loose ends which he will not (cannot?) explain. And since serving honorably, in your view, evidently means I can't criticize Kerry, I'm assuming to be consistent you've never criticized John McCain.

Just how low does your IQ have to be not to recognize the distinction I drew, as between his active duty service and his self serving anti-war activities after he returned?

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

If you must, belittle another politician,

Why must we belittle another politician when Kerry is such an easy target. Was he a politician when he was in Vietnam?

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

So there you admit it: Sen. Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. Why are you still belittling him?

If you must, belittle another politician, like one who dodged teh draft by arranging a cushy National Guard position.

You can't make this guy up. Every post is comedy gold.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

You can't make this guy up. Every post is comedy gold.

To be fair, Sen. Kerry did perform honorably during his service.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

To be fair, Sen. Kerry did perform honorably during his service.

Right, but the understanding from his post is that this is supposed to somehow insulate him from criticism from the way he held himself AFTER his service. Lying about your experiences, for instance.

 

[sagard]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

You guys are boring me with your war heroes.

Can anyone speak to the validity of the www.mytaxburden.com?

I multiple levels of incomes and deductions.

At $500K income, $40K interest paid, $35K state taxes, $6K property taxes, guess what the difference between the current Republican plan and Democrat plan appears to be?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Right, but the understanding from his post is that this is supposed to somehow insulate him from criticism from the way he held himself AFTER his service. Lying about your experiences, for instance.

And lying about the alleged crimes of others, some of whom were never in Vietnam, some of whom never served at all.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Without them and those like them, people like us would not have the freedom to be discussing this right now.

Part of their job description is to deal with dangerous situations that the vast majority of the population never faces - and if it does face them, it doesn't do so willingly. These people choose to run into burning buildings to try to save people like us. They choose to pursue armed criminals who have little to no regard for the lives and property of the innocent. Why you would choose to undermine what they do and why they do it is beyond me.

I brought it up because (heroes) gets over used when discussing city budget of police and fire department. and now the department of defense.

I'm shocked you don't put our judges and prosecution on the same pedestal. They get death threats and some are killed in line of duty as seen in Mexico recently.

At least locally it's not even that dangerous compared to other jobs like taxi driver... more taxi drivers were killed than police officers and I can't remember last time when a fireman died in line of duty. And I've friends and family and co-workers in the police, fire department and the military. maybe that colors my hero worship vision to the positive And to the negative.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100921/ap_on_go_co/us_gays_military

defense bill as a vehicle for an immigration proposal that would enable young people to qualify for U.S. citizenship if they joined the military.

Republicans are stuck on religious social issue, above anything else it seems.

Senate Republicans on Tuesday blocked an effort by Democrats and the White House to lift the ban on gays from serving openly in the military, voting unanimously against advancing a major defense policy bill that included the provision.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

The DREAM Act is more than what you mentioned, Tundra.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

The DREAM Act is more than what you mentioned, Tundra.

terror toddlers, for instance.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Republicans are stuck on religious social issue, above anything else it seems.

Way to mischaracterize the opposition. There's plenty of support for doing away with DADT in the GOP caucus, but not when it was bundled in with the Orwellian-named DREAM Act and the defense budget.

It's like... yes, you can eat this candy bar, but you're also going to eat this turd I put on top of it. It's a political game, and you got taken.

And by the way - young people already qualify for fast tracked citizenship if they join the military. One of my soldiers in Iraq, an immigrant from Ecuador, became a citizen at Baghdad International Airport during our tour. He said it was the proudest moment of his life.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I brought it up because (heroes) gets over used when discussing city budget of police and fire department. and now the department of defense.

I'm shocked you don't put our judges and prosecution on the same pedestal. They get death threats and some are killed in line of duty as seen in Mexico recently.

At least locally it's not even that dangerous compared to other jobs like taxi driver... more taxi drivers were killed than police officers and I can't remember last time when a fireman died in line of duty. And I've friends and family and co-workers in the police, fire department and the military. maybe that colors my hero worship vision to the positive And to the negative.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100921/ap_on_go_co/us_gays_military


Republicans are stuck on religious social issue, above anything else it seems.

Republicans are stuck on a "religious social issue?" So something created by Clinton is a republican idea? And the republicans voting down a spending bill means they oppose only one small provision?

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

heroes in the armed forces. couldn't find the number of (ex) US soldiers in jail.

Record numbers of ex-soldiers in UK jails as combat trauma blamed

At least 8,500 former service personnel are in custody - nearly a tenth of the UK prison population

I didn't realize our military were against babies. what kinda message are they sending. plus I thought women couldn't serve in combat missions.

Members of the U.S. military who become pregnant while serving in northern Iraq now face the possibility of a court-martial or jail time.

The rule applies to anyone who becomes pregnant or impregnates another service member, even if they are married.

"The redeployment of the pregnant soldier creates a void in the unit and has a negative impact on the unit's ability to accomplish its mission. Another soldier must assume the pregnant soldier's responsibilities," Army spokesman Maj. Lee Peters told the newspaper.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Way to mischaracterize the opposition. There's plenty of support for doing away with DADT in the GOP caucus, but not when it was bundled in with the Orwellian-named DREAM Act and the defense budget.

It's like... yes, you can eat this candy bar, but you're also going to eat this turd I put on top of it. It's a political game, and you got taken.

And by the way - young people already qualify for fast tracked citizenship if they join the military. One of my soldiers in Iraq, an immigrant from Ecuador, became a citizen at Baghdad International Airport during our tour. He said it was the proudest moment of his life.

We've had non citizens in our military for decades. What's new is using service to wash away illegality. Decisions about granting citizenship to illegals should be made on a case by case basis.

As far as DADT is concerned: it's a bad idea and should be done away with. The issue is inappropriate behavior, and that can still be prosecuted as indicated, whether or not there's a DADT.

I still recall the day in AF basic when a young officer (the only time an officer addressed us) gave us the "gay" briefing (although we used another word). It was a close call whether he was more uncomfortable than we were (hot, sweaty basics at Lackland AFB).

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

As far as DADT is concerned: it's a bad idea and should be done away with. The issue is inappropriate behavior, and that can still be prosecuted as indicated, whether or not there's a DADT.

This is something I wish DADT supporters would understand. We call it EO, or equal opportunity in the military, and every unit has an EO coordinator separate from the command to take EO complaints. EO violations are violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. And gay sexual harassment is already covered, whether the individual committing the harassment is gay or not. There are men who harass women. There are women who harass men. There are men who harass men, and women who harass women. What does getting rid of DADT change? Absolutely nothing. EO complaints are still going to be dealt with appropriately.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

This is something I wish DADT supporters would understand. We call it EO, or equal opportunity in the military, and every unit has an EO coordinator separate from the command to take EO complaints. EO violations are violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. And gay sexual harassment is already covered, whether the individual committing the harassment is gay or not. There are men who harass women. There are women who harass men. There are men who harass men, and women who harass women. What does getting rid of DADT change? Absolutely nothing. EO complaints are still going to be dealt with appropriately.

I don't follow here. Every DADT-related discharge is a case of violating EO code??

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

While we're talking about everything under the sun, I want to pose a question to the members on the right and left..

Is the price of citizenship too low? If there was a cost to citizenship, would this country (and others) be better off?

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I don't follow here. Every DADT-related discharge is a case of violating EO code??

No, every case that DADT supporters claim will be a problem if gays are allowed to serve openly are already occurring and are being covered under the UCMJ. Harassment is harassment no matter how it occurs, and there's already a system for dealing with it.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

This is something I wish DADT supporters would understand. We call it EO, or equal opportunity in the military, and every unit has an EO coordinator separate from the command to take EO complaints. EO violations are violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. And gay sexual harassment is already covered, whether the individual committing the harassment is gay or not. There are men who harass women. There are women who harass men. There are men who harass men, and women who harass women. What does getting rid of DADT change? Absolutely nothing. EO complaints are still going to be dealt with appropriately.

I guess what I meant to say was it's time to drop the prohibition against gays. There were guys we assumed were gay serving in my day and I'm pretty sure there are today. So what's the problem? If the policy is changed, there will be mandatory meetings where the new policy is explained as well as the consequences of violating its letter and spirit. The EO framework you describe should be sufficient to prosecute gays who violate its parameters and all the other permutations and combinations. It's time to abandon "this chestnut," as I think Cheney called it.

I remember being ordered to a "race relations" assembly where it was made quite clear what would happen to people who didn't get with the program. The same could be done if the policy on gays is changed.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

The EO framework you describe should be sufficient to prosecute gays who violate its parameters and all the other permutations and combinations.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was getting at. The argument of "well, it's going to make soldiers angry to serve with a homosexual" or "what if a straight soldier gets hit on by a homosexual" are both idiotic, because that's why EO policies exist.

You've got a problem serving with a gay person? Come on, half of the women in the Army are lesbians.