Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

[sagard]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

You honestly think McCain would have been any better? McCain is hardly a "good guy fiscal conservative".

Yes. I think McCain was the best candidate in '00, but something went wrong. After that he was chained to the Bush/Cheney bus and ended up getting run over by them again.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Well, the 2008 election was nearly unwinnable by the Republicans, no matter who was going to pull the nomination. You could have cloned a 60 year old Ronald Reagan and put him in there and it likely wouldn't have mattered. Some elections are just that way. 1980 and 1992 immediately come to mind.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

The single most politically damaging thing to happen to our country in your lifetime happened in '00 Florida. We could have had Gore until '04, then McCain would have taken over for eight years, and Mr. Obama would still likely be some senator from Illinois.

Instead we had the good guys (fiscal conservatives) pushed out of the Republican way and a bunch of corrupt war mongering a-holes run the country for eight years. The were such horrible people the democrats offered no solutions and still managed to win the presidency and almost sixty senate seats depending on the day.

As it is now many are seeing the Dems for what they are and we will get back to gridlock for another six years until we get another Republican in the white house. Sadly that may be the best thing for our country.

While not agreeing with your post, you should realize that John McCain would make those "war mongering a-holes" Bush and Cheney look like Mother Theresa.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Well, the 2008 election was nearly unwinnable by the Republicans, no matter who was going to pull the nomination. You could have cloned a 60 year old Ronald Reagan and put him in there and it likely wouldn't have mattered. Some elections are just that way. 1980 and 1992 immediately come to mind.

Well, maybe. Recall in '92 we had a largely self financed billionaire, who, in his little pea brain had it out for Bush I. I mean it was personal. Recall Perot stated publicly that Bush I sent undercover CIA operatives to trash his daughter's wedding reception. Now THAT's just nuts. With Ross Perot not in the race, Bush I might have won.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Well, maybe. Recall in '92 we had a largely self financed billionaire, who, in his little pea brain had it out for Bush I. I mean it was personal. Recall Perot stated publicly that Bush I sent undercover CIA operatives to trash his daughter's wedding reception. Now THAT's just nuts. With Ross Perot not in the race, Bush I might have won.

Agreed-but Bush would have needed to garner about 65% of the Perot vote to even have a chance. The electoral vote margin was substantial to overcome. But no question the Perot vote influenced the election more than any third party candidate since T Roosevelt.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

We're just speculating now, but I don't think Bush was going to lay a glove on Clinton in 1992. Once Clinton came out of the Democratic convention, it was virtually lights out.

What I was trying to say with my previous statement was that some years, you know early on that the incumbent party is ****ed, right out of the gate. Carter was DOA in 1980. As soon as Eisenhower got the Republican nomination in 1952 you could say the same thing. Same with Hoover in 1932 if we really want to get into the way-back machine. I'm not going further back than that, because what happened over 80 years ago really isn't relevant for this conversation.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Even so, Al Gore in Tennessee is akin to George Bush in Texas. He should have had plenty of pull to take care of his own home state. For God's sake, he was an 8-term Congressman before he was working on his 2nd term as Tennessee's Senator, before he lit out for the VP position. His dad was a 7-term Congressman and then a 3-term Senator. The Gore name kinda carried some weight in Tennessee.

Tennessee never should have been in play, and Gore managed to **** it away. There is no way on earth that TN should have been red. None. And if he takes care of his own front porch, he can tell Florida to stick it in their ear on the way to Pennsylvania Ave.

Sometimes folks get to washington and they go "asiatic," they forget about the people back home. Gore's dad was a big deal anti-Vietnam war guy. I don't think that played very well in TN. J. William Fulbright, the big deal Arkansas liberal, even though he opposed the Vietnam war, never lost track of his roots. That's why that four flushing p***k NEVER voted for ANY civil rights/or voting rights legislation. So when election time came around, all the good old boys in the barber shops would shake their heads at his anti-war shenanigans, but then console themselves that after all, he always voted the right way when it came to "nigras."

 

[Hammer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Also, Clinton came in with 370 EV when the smoke cleared. Without Perot, Bush had to swing 102 EV the other way to hold on. I just don't think that was going to happen.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

We're just speculating now, but I don't think Bush was going to lay a glove on Clinton in 1992. Once Clinton came out of the Democratic convention, it was virtually lights out.

What I was trying to say with my previous statement was that some years, you know early on that the incumbent party is ****ed, right out of the gate. Carter was DOA in 1980. As soon as Eisenhower got the Republican nomination in 1952 you could say the same thing. Same with Hoover in 1932 if we really want to get into the way-back machine. I'm not going further back than that, because what happened over 80 years ago really isn't relevant for this conversation.

You think those Perot voters would have split evenly? Fiscal conservatives?
We're just going to have to disagree on that one. Again I said Bush I "might" have won without Perot in the race. It was possible.

Aside from our little disagreement about '92 I'm generally in agreement. 2000 was virtually in the bag for Obama for all of the obvious reasons, but add in another: the open, brazen cheering and manipulation in favor of the Democratic nominee by the MSM. Heck, they're still doing it.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Sometimes folks get to washington and they go "asiatic," they forget about the people back home. Gore's dad was a big deal anti-Vietnam war guy. I don't think that played very well in TN. J. William Fulbright, the big deal Arkansas liberal, even though he opposed the Vietnam war, never lost track of his roots. That's why that four flushing p***k NEVER voted for ANY civil rights/or voting rights legislation. So when election time came around, all the good old boys in the barber shops would shake their heads at his anti-war shenanigans, but then console themselves that after all, he alwaqys voted the right way when it came to "nigras."

Well, then why didn't they stop him before Gore Jr. before he became a 7-term Congressman, and before he won his 2nd term as Senator (or his 1st, for that matter)? People thought enough of father-and-son to send them back to Washington many, many times. Seems like they would have stopped the Gore family long before Jr. wound up at the top of the Dems ticket.

I think they just flat-out botched the campaign in 2000.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

is Obama in Jimmy Carter territory yet?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Yes. I think McCain was the best candidate in '00, but something went wrong. After that he was chained to the Bush/Cheney bus and ended up getting run over by them again.

Given the bumbling ineptitute of "the one we've been waiting for," your observation, while accurate, is hardly a revelation.

 

[sagard]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Agreed-but Bush would have needed to garner about 65% of the Perot vote to even have a chance. The electoral vote margin was substantial to overcome. But no question the Perot vote influenced the election more than any third party candidate since T Roosevelt.

Nader not being on the ballot in '00 could have made a difference as well. Didn't get nearly support as Perot, but the margins were so much thinner.

Any chance the Tea Party will come up with anyone tolerable in the national level?

 

[Hammer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

You think those Perot voters would have split evenly? Fiscal conservatives?
We're just going to have to disagree on that one. Again I said Bush I "might" have won without Perot in the race. It was possible.

Aside from our little disagreement about '92 I'm generally in agreement. 2000 was virtually in the bag for Obama for all of the obvious reasons, but add in another: the open, brazen cheering and manipulation in favor of the Democratic nominee by the MSM. Heck, they're still doing it.

Keep in mind that the economy was not in the best of shape, either, and that people probably had some Republican fatigue when it came to the White House. The GOP did hold the White House for 12 straight years.

There is another lesson to be learned from the last decade or so. If you want to beat the incumbent, you better put forth a solid candidate yourself. If you don't believe me, I refer you to John Kerry. The Dems had two shots at George W. Bush, and could not beat him. I saw the same thing in Michigan in the governor's race 4 years ago. The "I'm Not The Incumbent" campaign gets you nothing but a concession speech on Election Night.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Well, then why didn't they stop him before Gore Jr. before he became a 7-term Congressman, and before he won his 2nd term as Senator (or his 1st, for that matter)? People thought enough of father-and-son to send them back to Washington many, many times. Seems like they would have stopped the Gore family long before Jr. wound up at the top of the Dems ticket.

I think they just flat-out botched the campaign in 2000.

The answer is obvious: in all of these instances, the voters of Illinois, Tennessee and South Dakota thought the guy was okay in the Senate, not the WH.

BTW, whatever "moral" claim Gore may have had after the voting he pizzed away with his Chicago style manipulations in Florida, including an organized, wide spread effort to disenfranchise GI's. Pretty high class stuff for a guy who aspires to be Commander in Chief. Screw Al Gore and the horse he rode in on.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

is Obama in Jimmy Carter territory yet?

We're going to find out shortly, likely over the next 6-9 months. The bigger question is this: Is the Republican Party going to have its **** together with a credible candidate, and be ready if the answer is "yes"? If not, being a 21st century Jimmy Carter might not matter.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

The answer is obvious: in all of these instances, the voters of Illinois, Tennessee and South Dakota thought the guy was okay in the Senate, not the WH.

I would counter that two of the three got caught in the landslide (pun intended) and the third one just plain f-d up.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Keep in mind that the economy was not in the best of shape, either, and that people probably had some Republican fatigue when it came to the White House. The GOP did hold the White House for 12 straight years.

There is another lesson to be learned from the last decade or so. If you want to beat the incumbent, you better put forth a solid candidate yourself. If you don't believe me, I refer you to John Kerry. The Dems had two shots at George W. Bush, and could not beat him. I saw the same thing in Michigan in the governor's race 4 years ago. The "I'm Not The Incumbent" campaign gets you nothing but a concession speech on Election Night.

The benefits of the incumbency cannot be over estimated, even if you're facing a challenge for the nomination from within your party. On the morning of the Wisconsin primary, Jimmy Carter announced some sort of "breakthough" in negotiations with Iran over the release of our hostages. The real breakthrough came when Reagan was taking the oath. The AP sent out a 2 word flash: "hostages freed"

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Is the Republican Party going to have its **** together with a credible candidate,.

Right now the answer is obvious and thats a big fat NO

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I would counter that two of the three got caught in the landslide (pun intended) and the third one just f-d up.

You say potato. . .