Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

This is really sad that the thread had turned in to MSNBC vs Fox News...

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

MSNBC is rarely mentioned because they have virtually no viewers.

Because liberals have no reason to be spoonfed their ideals over and over again for self validation.

Fox News viewers on the other hand. Well, they can't get enough.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Eugene Robinson still thinks President Obama is doing a heckuva good job.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/19/AR2010081904771.html

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

No, it's common sense

"Brett, the silver fox, likes the number 4" is an idea.

FYP

Pure, unadulterated outrage ...

CNN?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Because liberals have no reason to be spoonfed their ideals over and over again for self validation.

Fox News viewers on the other hand. Well, they can't get enough.

Yah, liberals hate to hear their own views validated!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Yah, liberals hate to hear their own views validated!

Well, we have our views vindicated by the facts, so a cheerleader isn't really necessary. But while I don't think many people will argue that MSNBC isn't the same as Fox, the percentage of liberals who know MSNBC is completely bogus seems to be a lot higher than the percentage of conservatives who know Fox is completely bogus -- the difference in popularity bears that out.

There are stupid people on both sides. The thing that has been so bizarre about the last 10 years is the stupid people on the right have been in charge. That's weird and notable. I don't think that means anything inherently about right vs left. It does mean something inherent in populism, which at the moment is swinging right, but just wait a generation for that to swing back.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

This is really sad that the thread had turned in to MSNBC vs Fox News...

Well, I think that's at least somewhat topical - Mr. President himself has engaged Fox on numerous occasions...

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Well, we have our views vindicated by the facts, so a cheerleader isn't really necessary. But while I don't think many people will argue that MSNBC isn't the same as Fox, the percentage of liberals who know MSNBC is completely bogus seems to be a lot higher than the percentage of conservatives who know Fox is completely bogus -- the difference in popularity bears that out.

There are stupid people on both sides. The thing that has been so bizarre about the last 10 years is the stupid people on the right have been in charge. That's weird and notable. I don't think that means anything inherently about right vs left. It does mean something inherent in populism, which at the moment is swinging right, but just wait a generation for that to swing back.

Sorry, but I really don't think you can differentiate one side from the other in buying into their designated affirmation news outlets. As someone who often lands on the conservative side of issues, I'll readily admit that Fox can be quite ridiculous in what goes out over the airwaves, and that far too many conservative listeners buy it hook, line, and sinker. But my experiences with liberals are that they are every bit as prone to going to news outlets that tell them what they want to hear and then think that they aren't just being spoonfed their own views back to them.

Oh, and the last two years I don't think you can make any claim of the conservatives being in charge. And in some ways those other 8 years shows that Bush and company weren't nearly as conservative as they were made out to be (prescription drug bill, deficit spending, etc.).

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I read The Audacity of Hope, Going Rogue's been sitting on my counter for around 6 months now. Don't think I'll ever get around to it.

I'd be willing to take a look at her next bio, "going commando"...

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Sorry, but I really don't think you can differentiate one side from the other in buying into their designated affirmation news outlets. As someone who often lands on the conservative side of issues, I'll readily admit that Fox can be quite ridiculous in what goes out over the airwaves, and that far too many conservative listeners buy it hook, line, and sinker. But my experiences with liberals are that they are every bit as prone to going to news outlets that tell them what they want to hear and then think that they aren't just being spoonfed their own views back to them.

Fair enough. An ex-girlfriend's ultra-liberal mother -- and a professor of history at UT-Austin to boot -- once told me quote I know Bush stole the election from Dukakis because everybody I know, even in Texas, voted for Dukakis.

Oh, and the last two years I don't think you can make any claim of the conservatives being in charge. And in some ways those other 8 years shows that Bush and company weren't nearly as conservative as they were made out to be (prescription drug bill, deficit spending, etc.).

I meant in charge of the Republican party. I don't know what one would call the neo-cons -- a sort of weird erstwhile incompetent Ingsoc with a hard-on for Israel -- but they were certainly calling the tune for a long time in the GOP, and if there were safe and sane alternatives none of them were putting their butt on the line in honorable opposition except Paul, Hagel, and Warner on even-numbered days.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I love how the main idea of Kepler's argument basically boils down to "people on the right are stupid." Apparently the dialog at Cornell hovers around the 1st grade level.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I meant in charge of the Republican party. I don't know what one would call the neo-cons -- a sort of weird erstwhile incompetent Ingsoc with a hard-on for Israel -- but they were certainly calling the tune for a long time in the GOP, and if there were safe and sane alternatives none of them were putting their butt on the line in honorable opposition except Paul, Hagel, and Warner on even-numbered days.

I'm not sure even a lot of Republicans can explain well who has been in charge of their party and why over the last 8 years. Bush was president, but he never came across as leader of the party the way, say, Clinton really seemed more of the true standard-bearer of the Dems. But, certainly the neo-cons have been a major factor in where the Republicans have gone recently, and I'd say not always in their, or the nation's, best interests.

There is far too little opposition within both parties. I'm not sure if citing Israel is a real sign of neo-con influence, as they have widespread support in both parties, except some Dems who have gotten caught up in the PC movement who suddenly see the Palestinians warm and cuddly.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I'm not sure if citing Israel is a real sign of neo-con influence, as they have widespread support in both parties, except some Dems who have gotten caught up in the PC movement who suddenly see the Palestinians warm and cuddly.

It's a big difference, and it's a split not between R and D but between the Neocons and the rest of us. We're all for supporting Israel the ally, and 99% of Congress is on the take from AIPAC, but only a select few ceded US foreign policy to Tel Aviv. (Actually not even Tel Aviv, where there's more diversity of opinion on the topic than here, but to Jonah Goldberg's column at NRO).

I see Hillary announced more direct talks, so this administration is going to go down that same pointless road. Until those two sides have a mutual problem, like Iranian rocket launchers on the Golan Heights, they aren't going to budge.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

It's a big difference, and it's a split not between R and D but between the Neocons and the rest of us. We're all for supporting Israel the ally, and 99% of Congress is on the take from AIPAC, but only a select few ceded US foreign policy to Tel Aviv. (Actually not even Tel Aviv, where there's more diversity of opinion on the topic than here, but to Jonah Goldberg's column at NRO).

I see Hillary announced more direct talks, so this administration is going to go down that same pointless road. Until those two sides have a mutual problem, like Iranian rocket launchers on the Golan Heights, they aren't going to budge.

I'm not sure what you think the neo-cons have done very differently than what our traditional relations have been with Israel, which is very tight. They've always been one of our closest allies in the entire world and we've always worked closely with them, or at least until Obama started pulling back on the relationship. The biggest change I think is some Dems getting squishier on supporting Israel or even in a few cases actively taking up the cause for the Palestinians.

The whole situation is intractable and I don't expect to see any substantive progress in my lifetime, or likely ever. I agree that talks are pointless until there's some sizable change in the overall dynamics. Funny, that's essentially why Bush never pushed a lot of talks, one thing I agreed with him on.

 

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Sorry, but I really don't think you can differentiate one side from the other in buying into their designated affirmation news outlets. As someone who often lands on the conservative side of issues, I'll readily admit that Fox can be quite ridiculous in what goes out over the airwaves, and that far too many conservative listeners buy it hook, line, and sinker. But my experiences with liberals are that they are every bit as prone to going to news outlets that tell them what they want to hear and then think that they aren't just being spoonfed their own views back to them.

Here's the million dollar question: Which is worse, being brainwashed from the ages of 5-25 by the liberals in the education system, or buying into an agenda pushed across the airwaves by a conservative media outlet?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Here's the million dollar question: Which is worse, being brainwashed from the ages of 5-25 by the liberals in the education system, or buying into an agenda pushed across the airwaves by a conservative media outlet?

At least the conservative media admits they have an agenda...and that they are the conservative media.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Funny, that's essentially why Bush never pushed a lot of talks, one thing I agreed with him on.

Bush was otherwise engaged destroying our reputation as an honest broker.

The thing that "solves" the problem is the end of oil. That will dry up the terrorism dollars and obviate the need for the West to kowtow to both the Saudis as a supplier and the Israelis as a beachhead. Then they'll either work it out or blow each other to bits with about as much global impact as the Sudan.

I don't know of a single historical case of one culture moving in and utterly displacing another, from ancient Judea to the American west, that didn't end in genocide. People don't just give their land up, they fight. Settlement waves don't stop, they just up the ante. Eventually, one side runs out of trigger fingers, and that's "peace."

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Here's the million dollar question: Which is worse, being brainwashed from the ages of 5-25 by the liberals in the education system, or buying into an agenda pushed across the airwaves by a conservative media outlet?

I'd say the brainwash, as you're a kid then and less able to know what's being fed to you or responsible for taking it in. When you're an adult at least you have full responsibility for taking in content, whether from a conservative media outlet or a liberal one.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I'd say the brainwash, as you're a kid then and less able to know what's being fed to you or responsible for taking it in. When you're an adult at least you have full responsibility for taking in content, whether from a conservative media outlet or a liberal one.

So you guys are the one group of people who sussed out the brainwashing and counteracted it? My, how much smarter you are than the rest of us.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Too funny. You don't like the education system fix it. There's plenty of choice out there. Obviously the brainwashing the liberal education system doesn't work very well given the popularity of Fix News.

No, they're right. Stupid heliocentric solar system brainwashing is stupid.

You know the expression, "you're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts"? That's what these guys call "brainwashing." They insist on their own facts.

Reality is "just one viewpoint" to them. They're the ultimate relativists!