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Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

LynahFan said:
Wow, you must be a mind reader to know what all those people in Alaska are thinking.
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Lets not limit this to Alaska please. I can read the minds of millions of lazy,shiftless conservatives who like to leach off of productive citizens like myself all over this great land of ours. Same thing I'm always telling the "Unemployed caucus" of conservative posters out here (you know who you are). If you dislike the gubmint so much, stop cashing an unemployment or welfare check and go find a job like the rest of us.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

As Nancy Pelosi's investigators prepare to fan out across the country to "get to the bottom" of this opposition to the GZ Mosque, you might want to consider who is so all fired up to build this affront to all Americans. Why it's people who, in most other circumstances, oppose religion every way they can. You know, the manger police.

http://jewishworldreview.com/0810/ahlert081910.php3

If "Imam" Rauf and the others involved in building this Islamist Victory Arch were a little more forthcoming about the project, if Mayor Bloomberg had held off on micro-managing every New Yorker's life and instead seen that this project had the potential to be enormously controversial and intervened--perhaps bringing mosque planners and survivors together, this whole kerfuffle could have been avoided.

BTW, the "there's already a strip club in the area so why should anybody object to the mosque" argument is a non sequitor and irrelevant. If Mosque supporters want to continue behaving like Japanese troops on Okinawa, then they'd have a better chance of convincing the nearly 70% of Americans who oppose this project and them by sticking to the "religous bigotry" or "racism" arguments. Since these are their default positions on everything else anyway, they'll have the talking points internalized.

Oh, and to the "if the NY Times says it, it must be true" crowd. Pass. Tell it to Jayson Blair or Walter Duranty.
 
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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Old Pio said:
BTW, the "there's already a strip club in the area so why should anybody object to the mosque" argument is a non sequitor and irrelevant.
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Nuh uh. Everyone knows that the terrorists attended strip clubs ahead of 9/11. Therefore, if there is a strip club near ground zero, the terrorists win, or something.

If Mosque supporters want to continue behaving like Japanese troops on Okinawa, then they'd have a better chance of convincing the nearly 70% of Americans who oppose this project and them by sticking to the "religous bigotry" or "racism" arguments. Since these are their default positions on everything else anyway, they'll have the talking points internalized.
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Sadly, there are almost as many people who subscribe to the idiotic "Obama birth certificate" conspiracy theory, rightly viewed as a fringe belief, as support the placement of a mosque near Ground Zero. Perhaps that should be viewed as fringe as well.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

"KEEP THE GUBMINT OUT OF MY UNEMPLOYMENT CHECK" - typical conservative. :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

huskyfan said:
its our right as Americans to criticize the other guy's religion. geez.

my main issue with Islamists is their treatment of women. its between awful and horrendous. the irony of those who embrace liberal ideals also embracing a religion that treats women like dirt. please see the Koran 4:34.
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Deuteronomy would like to have a word with you.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

It's been a hectic couple of weeks, and I haven't been around much...

Can someone fill me in on the thread title? I want to laugh, but I have no idea what it's referring to.

And Vista SP2 is the most unfairly maligned OS EVAR!

I have no idea if that works in favor of the USCHO righties or lefties. Just had to throw that in...
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

The thing that I'm trying to figure out is if they are truly putting up the mosque up at a place of worship and community (and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this) why is it in the middle of the financial district? Its my understanding there there isn't much of a muslim population in the area. This part of the issue seems a bit fishy so I'd really like to get an explaination on that.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

amherstblackbear said:
It's been a hectic couple of weeks, and I haven't been around much...

Can someone fill me in on the thread title? I want to laugh, but I have no idea what it's referring to.

And Vista SP2 is the most unfairly maligned OS EVAR!

I have no idea if that works in favor of the USCHO righties or lefties. Just had to throw that in...
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Its like that green police commercial, to each their own to take it for what they wanted, but I was actually pushing the expectations versus public opinion angle.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

MinnFan said:
The thing that I'm trying to figure out is if they are truly putting up the mosque up at a place of worship and community (and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this) why is it in the middle of the financial district? Its my understanding there there isn't much of a muslim population in the area. This part of the issue seems a bit fishy so I'd really like to get an explaination on that.
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There are two other mosques in the area, both are at or over capacity with people wanting to worship.

There are approximately 55,000 people living south of Chambers Street, and many more if you broaden your definition of Lower Manhattan. In that broader area (South of Houston), you've got 156,000 people living there according to the outdated 2000 Census, of which 43% were foreign-born.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/nyregion/14mosque.html

Masjid Manhattan, on Warren Street, four blocks from ground zero, was founded in 1970. Masjid al-Farah, formerly on Mercer Street, moved to its present location on West Broadway, about 12 blocks from ground zero, in 1985. Both mosques — essentially one-room operations — routinely turn people away for lack of space.
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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Rover said:
Lets not limit this to Alaska please. I can read the minds of millions of lazy,shiftless conservatives who like to leach off of productive citizens like myself all over this great land of ours. Same thing I'm always telling the "Unemployed caucus" of conservative posters out here (you know who you are). If you dislike the gubmint so much, stop cashing an unemployment or welfare check and go find a job like the rest of us.
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There are just as many unemployed liberals cashing those checks, supporting the current situation and "living the dream." The reason the unemployed are usually the most vocal is because they have the time! ;) Its why the retired population is such a big deal when it comes to voting. They have the time.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Patman said:
Bottom line... this mosque project... its EXACTLY what we say it is because it is EXACTLY who they are. Look at their society, look at what their people say. Without eyes on this the mosque would happen and within a year we'd see sermons on the level of the Finsbury Park mosque (do you know what that is Timmy? I bet you don't.) just as we've seen sub-rosa radicals in England as witnessed by Channel 4... and many of those were government aligned "moderates".

The thing is, you don't know who they are... that is to say Islam at large... and you don't want to know because you've already been "told" what they are... why don't you find out what these guys are all about. Recall that Islam doesn't mean "peace"... it means "submission"... and that isn't the work of a conservative whackjob... it means total submission to the God of the Quran. A religion whose "most perfect person" had sex with a 9 year old girl. Realize this, realize that book, and you'll realize Islam.
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Honest question, in this case shouldn't we then oppose all mosques anywhere, since any of them would hold the potential for dangerous sermons and anti-American activities?
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Kepler said:
Guys like Obama have painted themselves into a corner with their tactics. On the one hand, he's not an idiot -- if you listen to him speak in academic environments that's clear. OTOH, he and his ilk have watched, applauded, and even abetted the transformation of the commercially-marketed left into lowest common denominator posturing. The intelligent potential leadership on the left has bent over to accommodate demagogues who range from the merely stupid to the actively vile. This has historical parallels and it isn't pretty, and it's always based on hubris: "don't worry, they're just useful idiots we'll use to secure victory, and then we'll be making the decisions." In practice, you can't ride those tigers. They'll bite you (poetic justice) and also go on to do tremendous damage before they're put down.
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FYP
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Bill said:
But there's also this from that same Feisal Abdul Rauf, shortly after 9-11:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...sque-imams-controversial-60-minutes-interview
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Ok, the transcript on that site (I can't get the video to load at work):

ED BRADLEY, CBS: (Voiceover) And throughout the Muslim world, there is also strong opposition to America's foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East because of its support of Israel and economic sanctions against Iraq.

Imam ABDUL RAUF: It is a reaction against the policies of the US government, politically, where we espouse principles of democracy and human rights and where we ally ourselves with oppressive regimes in many of these countries.

BRADLEY: Are--are--are you in any way suggesting that we in the United States deserved what happened?

Imam ABDUL RAUF: I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.

BRADLEY: OK. You say that we're an accessory?

Imam ABDUL RAUF: Yes.

BRADLEY: How?

Imam ABDUL RAUF: Because we have been an accessory to a lot of--of innocent lives dying in the world. In fact, it--in the most direct sense, Osama bin Laden is made in the USA.
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Do you really dispute anything he's saying here? What he's saying is essentially in-line with the basics of counter-insurgency. You need to win the hearts and minds of the people, and American policy (both prior to 9/11 and since) has been slow to embrace this idea.

I'd recommend reading Three Cups of Tea, about an American's efforts to build schools in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The crux of the issue is this:

Reflecting on the state of the post-9/11 world, Mortenson argues that extremism in the region can be deterred through collaborative efforts to alleviate poverty and improve access to education, especially for girls. Formerly, schooling focused on the boys, but educated boys tend to move to the cities to find jobs, and seldom return. By contrast, educated girls tend to remain in the community and pass their enhanced knowledge to the next generation. Thus, Mortenson suggests, educating girls has more of a lasting benefit for the community.
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Instead, American policy has mostly focused on funding people like Bin Laden when it was favorable to our interests (in getting the Soviets out of Afghanistan).

Our policy in many parts of the world has exploitative, not cooperative. I don't see what's incorrect about what he's saying here. It doesn't paint a pretty picture of American involvement in the rest of the world, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

MinnFan said:
Ohio handing out voter registration cards along with welfare payments

And they'll help you fill them out. I'm sorry, but voting should take some effort. Its really wrong is when its made even easier for people who have their hand in someone else's pocket.
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Pandering to the "zero liability voter." If they aren't paying into the pot and won't be for the foreseeable future, why should they care if spending is spiraling out of control, especially if they're a beneficiary?

It's a pretty cynical way of getting voters, but the Dems don't care because that's what helps them win elections.

If or when the Greek scenario comes to pass in this country, they'll be the ones burning stuff down and causing trouble.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

blockski said:
Ok, the transcript on that site (I can't get the video to load at work):



Do you really dispute anything he's saying here? What he's saying is essentially in-line with the basics of counter-insurgency. You need to win the hearts and minds of the people, and American policy (both prior to 9/11 and since) has been slow to embrace this idea.

I'd recommend reading Three Cups of Tea, about an American's efforts to build schools in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The crux of the issue is this:



Instead, American policy has mostly focused on funding people like Bin Laden when it was favorable to our interests (in getting the Soviets out of Afghanistan).

Our policy in many parts of the world has exploitative, not cooperative. I don't see what's incorrect about what he's saying here. It doesn't paint a pretty picture of American involvement in the rest of the world, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.
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My thoughts too. What he said every person might not agree with, but it hardly counts as radical. Saying that our foreign policy contributed to the situation where this could occur, both in terms of Muslim resentment to our presence in various places and to our initial support of the groups in Afghanistan that would eventually become a haven for bin Laden, in other words we were not just sitting at home twiddling our thumbs, seems hard to argue. That in no way says we deserve anything, for the proper reaction is not to hijack four places and kill thousands of people; those who did that are still the ones responsible and should needless to say continue to reap the full consequences of what they have sown.
 
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