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Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

blockski said:
Ok, the transcript on that site (I can't get the video to load at work):



Do you really dispute anything he's saying here? What he's saying is essentially in-line with the basics of counter-insurgency. You need to win the hearts and minds of the people, and American policy (both prior to 9/11 and since) has been slow to embrace this idea.

I'd recommend reading Three Cups of Tea, about an American's efforts to build schools in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The crux of the issue is this:



Instead, American policy has mostly focused on funding people like Bin Laden when it was favorable to our interests (in getting the Soviets out of Afghanistan).

Our policy in many parts of the world has exploitative, not cooperative. I don't see what's incorrect about what he's saying here. It doesn't paint a pretty picture of American involvement in the rest of the world, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.
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He said the U.S. was an accessory to 9-11. Doesn't sound like a moderate, peace loving, Imam to me.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

blockski said:
Do you really dispute anything he's saying here?
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You have to be able to hold two truths simultaneously in your head: there are legitimate grievances against us that we need to address, and the terrorists' actions are inexcusable and must be fought with all our power.

For a number of very vocal people, having both thoughts at once is way beyond their capabilities. You can't fix stupid.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Bill said:
He said the U.S. was an accessory to 9-11. Doesn't sound like a moderate, peace loving, Imam to me.
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Kepler said:
You have to be able to hold two truths simultaneously in your head: there are legitimate grievances against us that we need to address, and the terrorists' actions are inexcusable and must be fought with all our power.

For a number of very vocal people, having both thoughts at once is way beyond their capabilities. You can't fix stupid.
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Jon Stewart found a clip of Glenn Beck saying the exact same thing not too long ago.

If even Glenn freakin' Beck can say it...
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Rover, somehow I doubt that you can categorize welfare recipients in any one simple way that is convenient for anyone's extreme political ideologies.

It wasn't true when Limbaugh and company tried to portray welfare as entitlement for poor urban black people, and it isn't any more true today.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Unlike most of the other windbags, he is actually an admitted comedian (though, unlike Stewart, not a funny one -- or maybe it's subtle postmodern pathos-satire). That anybody takes his shtick seriously is amazing. It's pure entertainment, and, like Coulter, I can't help thinking he's laughing at the fanboys' gullibility as he cashes his checks.
 
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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
Rover, somehow I doubt that you can categorize welfare recipients in any one simple way that is convenient for anyone's extreme political ideologies.

It wasn't true when Limbaugh and company tried to portray welfare as entitlement for poor urban black people, and it isn't any more true today.
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I would say welfare recipients are as likely or more likely to be voting for conservative Republicans as they are for Dems. Think about the states with the largest % of people in the dole. They're generally white and conservative, not urban and minority.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Rover said:
I would say welfare recipients are as likely or more likely to be voting for conservative Republicans as they are for Dems. Think about the states with the largest % of people in the dole. They're generally white and conservative, not urban and minority.
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The key words being "I would say".
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Rover said:
I would say welfare recipients are as likely or more likely to be voting for conservative Republicans as they are for Dems. Think about the states with the largest % of people in the dole. They're generally white and conservative, not urban and minority.
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I'm just curious, when you look in the mirror do you see Adonis or do you see the person with flaws the rest of us see when we look in the mirror?
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Kepler said:
Anybody know the real numbers? Dunno if these numbers are credible, but according to them there are actually 300,000 more whites than blacks on welfare, for example.
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In raw numbers, true according to that link, but by percentage it's very different. Our resident Rover seems to be referring to percentages, though of course with him it's always a bit fuzzy.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Kepler said:
Anybody know the real numbers? Dunno if these numbers are credible, but according to them there are actually 300,000 more whites than blacks on welfare, for example.
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Generally I believe those are correct, as its been a common myth that welfare recipients are overwhelmingly urban minorities.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Rover said:
This article sums it up pretty neatly. Why is it that the people most loudly against the government are the ones cashing the biggest government checks?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/38767973

:rolleyes:
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I think the article is confused. republicans are for strong military. building transportation network and against government intrusion into the private sector in other matters. (not related to national defense and transportation)

The government check Alaska is cashing is for military and road construction. so in this case it's not an intrusion by the gobbermint.

Plus that NY writer needs a better fact check. Our state is gushing cash, like the oil companies. He seems to mix the city budget problem dependent on property taxes with non-existent state budget problem.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Bob Gray said:
In raw numbers, true according to that link, but by percentage it's very different. Our resident Rover seems to be referring to percentages, though of course with him it's always a bit fuzzy.
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I didn't read Rover's comments that way -- he was arguing that the public perception of the typical welfare profile is way off, and the recipient is just as likely to be white as black.

If little blond-haired Erica from the coal fields of West Virginia was the public face of welfare, I think we would see a very different attitude from the middle class* people paying into the system. The right has painted welfare as black and white, so to speak, and the people who know better have done a terrible job educating the public.

(* In my experience, the working poor who oppose welfare would still oppose it because when they think about a welfare queen they're not thinking about some anonymous miscreant from the other race, they're thinking about their no-good brother-in-law Cletus or Tyrone who lies around all day with a non-existent back injury and hasn't looked for a job in 3 years.)
 
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