What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Priceless
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Kepler said:
Aw shucks.

BTW, today's fundies would be no friends of Kepler (neither would today's scientists, he has a foot on each continent). He wouldn't care for them, either -- the crazies in his day hounded his mother for witchcraft.

When religions talk about ethics they're on defensible, arguable, interesting ground. When they talk about anything material, like creation, they're just wild guessing. The morals of the story are: (1) it doesn't follow from the Resurrection being a primitive society's allegory of agricultural cycles that the Sermon on the Mount isn't a good idea, and (2) if you believe every word of any of the major religions' holy books is literally true, you're demonstrating ignorance, not faith.
Click to expand...

Can't say I know much about Kepler's mother.

On the latter part, I fundamentally disagree (get the pun! ;) ), but I won't hijack the thread on something that's never discussed reasonably around here.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Red Cloud said:
If you don't, then surely you think I'm paranoid.
Click to expand...
You're sort of building off of what I said in a completely different direction. I referred to the notion of a totalitarian government as a "paranoid delusion" used by some to argue the limits of government.

You're presenting this false dichotomy where, by saying that totalitarianism is a paranoid delusion, that therefore I must think anyone is paranoid if they think that government can't make people's lives miserable without going that far. So, you're either making a huge leap of logic in my statements or you're completely misreading my statement. Either way works. I'm sure the latter is much simpler.

The whole argument over totalitarianism is a pretty big tangent from what brought the topic up in the first place (which I'll revisit, if you really want to get into it). And in an odd roundabout way, you're last statement is bringing my original point from the last thread full circle, since that had to do with a fairly similar leap in logic.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

ScoobyDoo said:
That doesn't surprise. However, it is a Christian movement, albeit not one of the majority. However, there are so many different kinds (flavors) of Christianity nowadays it's hard to keep a scorecard.
Click to expand...

Its technically an old testament movement. I don't know of Christ making any mention of it. And based on Christianity, Christ was/is God. So if your a strict follower of Christ, creationism vs. evolutionism is not really even an issue.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

5mn_Major said:
Its technically an old testament movement. I don't know of Christ making any mention of it. And based on Christianity, Christ was/is God. So if your a strict follower of Christ, creationism vs. evolutionism is not really even an issue.
Click to expand...

Of all the "old testament" things mentioned by Christ in the Gospels, the creation story in the opening chapters of Genesis is not one of them.

But it's a lot more fun to leave this one to Lewis Black:

http://splicd.com/XpqcBu3tpsk/45/207
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Jeez, I can't leave you guys alone for a minute. I go outside to handle my snakes for just a couple of minutes during a commercial break in "Bait Car" and come back to find you talking about "creationism," "creation science" and "intelligent design." I'm telling your father.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Old Pio said:
Jeez, I can't leave you guys alone for a minute. I go outside to handle my snakes for just a couple of minutes during a commercial break in "Bait Car" and come back to find you talking about "creationism," "creation science" and "intelligent design." I'm telling your father.
Click to expand...

Wait... what?
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

5mn_Major said:
Its technically an old testament movement. I don't know of Christ making any mention of it. And based on Christianity, Christ was/is God. So if your a strict follower of Christ, creationism vs. evolutionism is not really even an issue.
Click to expand...
Really?

So, you don't believe in the Trinity then? It's not just Jesus who is God. At least not the way I was taught. And it is Christians doing the intelligent design (creationism) thing.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Patman said:
you mean you don't handle snakes? Gotta test your faith every once in awhile. Me, I lick toads and then cross the highway.
Click to expand...
If you're crossing Rte 29, that is indeed an act of faith.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

ScoobyDoo said:
Really?

So, you don't believe in the Trinity then? It's not just Jesus who is God. At least not the way I was taught. And it is Christians doing the intelligent design (creationism) thing.
Click to expand...

While it is Christians doing the intelligent design teaching, I think he's saying that the modern creationist movement is governed by a reliance on Old Testament teachings and not those of Christ. If so, I'd have to agree.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

ScoobyDoo said:
Really?

So, you don't believe in the Trinity then? It's not just Jesus who is God. At least not the way I was taught. And it is Christians doing the intelligent design (creationism) thing.
Click to expand...

Sure, I believe in the Trinity. Yet I don't know that the Holy Ghost advanced positions on any issues. And the only words God was said to have spoken were relayed through handed down stories for hundreds to thousands of years. Jesus came afterwards, was well documented, could set the record straight and had many witnesses. What Jesus said was the deal.

I'm sure you'd agree, many believe (in this case 'Christians') what is told them...regardless of its validity. And unfortunately extremists are attracted to belief systems including religions and hypernationalism...and are happy to use those belief systems to support their extreme positions.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

5mn_Major said:
Sure, I believe in the Trinity. Yet I don't know that the Holy Ghost advanced positions on any issues. And the only words God was said to have spoken were relayed through handed down stories for hundreds to thousands of years. Jesus came afterwards, was well documented, could set the record straight and had many witnesses. What Jesus said was the deal.
Click to expand...
Just to interrupt the already rousing religion discussion. Last I checked the OT is still put in the bible and there is no disclaimer that points out "this part is a work of fiction and isn't really an accurate history as viewed by xtians. Jesus is stuff you take literal though."

As for Jesus' life being well documented, no, not at all. The only real "sources" are the gospels, written down decades after the fact by unknown authors based on the oral stories that were just floating around at the time, and the editor couldn't even go through and fix the obvious contradictions. Not even when the committee that was picking all the "real" gospels to put in assembled the NT. The other sources for him are either people who mention that there was a xtian cult at the time (again, decades later), or there is evidence that they are works which were tampered with later by xtian scholars. (There is one that actually does mention Jesus, for all of one sentence before going on to more interesting people, but it does appear to be tampered with.)
 
Last edited:
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Foxton said:
Just to interrupt the already rousing religion discussion. Last I checked the OT is still put in the bible and there is no disclaimer that points out "this part is a work of fiction and isn't really an accurate history as viewed by xtians. Jesus is stuff you take literal though."

As for Jesus' life being well documented, no, not at all. The only real "sources" are the gospels, written down decades after the fact by unknown authors based on the oral stories that were just floating around at the time, and the editor couldn't even go through and fix the obvious contradictions. Not even when the committee that was picking all the "real" gospels to put in assembled the NT. The other sources for him are either people who mention that there was a xtian cult at the time (again, decades later), or there is evidence that they are works which were tampered with later by xtian scholars. (There is one that actually does mention Jesus, for all of one sentence before going on to more interesting people, but it does appear to be tampered with.)
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, we know you've got a knee-jerk negative reaction to this sort of thing -- even when everyone else is being civil. Now that you're finished making yourself feel good, I'll point out that everything you're rambling about is irrelevant to what everyone has been talking about.

All "movements" have basis in something, and thus far here it seems pretty simple there are differences between those governed by the Old and New Testaments. I mean, extrapolating -- Jews and Christians are different sects for a reason, and the emphases each place on each testament is a huge facet of that. That's just the reality. Better to deal with that than with your own bitter issues with that reality.

The fact you read Holy Blood, Holy Grail and The Messianic Legacy doesn't really change that, nor does it make your point...a point.

Edit: Council of Nicea, FTW?
 
Last edited:
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

XYZ said:
Yeah, yeah, we know you've got a knee-jerk negative reaction to this sort of thing -- even when everyone else is being civil.
Click to expand...

Foxton's also about the last person anyone should go to for an opinion on the meaning of the different parts of the Bible. Well, actually Kepler's the last person, but Foxton's probably next to last. Priceless, I would go to only to find out if a Bible tastes better baked or fried.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top