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Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Ah, I see what you mean. I was being too cute with my wording.

My point was just that they deliberately chose the word "elements" to avoid accusing the entire TP movement.

FWIW, I *do* think there's a point there. I think one of the reasons that folks associated with the TP movement are reluctant to talk about their more unsavory members is that any publicity is good publicity.

In other words, before nutjobs at rallies started 'shopping Obama's head on the body of some African tribesman, or using the Hitlser 'stache image - who had ever heard about the tea partiers? Wild rhetoric is good for business.

Fair enough. I don't think anyone has ever denied there have been racists who have attended Tea Party rallies. But there have been racists who attended DNC fundraisers, RNC fundraisers, and on and on and on. To me, the word "element" connotes something a little more forceful, as if it's a coordinated thing. Maybe that's just me though.

Not sure I agree with your last point. No way the Hitler posters have been good for Tea Party business.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

In other words, before nutjobs at rallies started 'shopping Obama's head on the body of some African tribesman, or using the Hitlser 'stache image - who had ever heard about the tea partiers? Wild rhetoric is good for business.

Any fringe element will attract the radicals, nutjobs and other characters. I've driven by some of the local tea party gatherings here (midwest/southern US), and the signs run the gamut from pro-life to gun rights to the US out of the UN to pictures of Palin with "2012" on them. I've also seen some of the pictures with Obama depicted as a monkey and Hitler. Frankly, I think the tea partiers would do themselves a favor and publicly bounce those clowns if they're really serious about avoiding the "racist" label. Then again, with no real "leaders" they're basically a disorganized mob.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

No way the Hitler posters have been good for Tea Party business.

The thing that made the Hitler posters a semi-official GOP position is Beck, since Fox : the RNC :: Pravda : the Politburo.

But I doubt the Hitler posters phase anybody in the Tea Party movement, in the way that similarly absurd stuff doesn't phase people in, say, the anti-globalization movement. The freaks believe it, the organizers allow it because there's no such thing as bad publicity, and most of the people at the rally think "well, that's stupid" and then go on to protest or eat free food or pick up girls or whatever they came for.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

The thing that made the Hitler posters a semi-official GOP position is Beck, since Fox : the RNC :: Pravda : the Politburo.

But I doubt the Hitler posters phase anybody in the Tea Party movement, in the way that similarly absurd stuff doesn't phase people in, say, the anti-globalization movement. The freaks believe it, the organizers allow it because there's no such thing as bad publicity, and most of the people at the rally think "well, that's stupid" and then go on to protest or eat free food or pick up girls or whatever they came for.

That seems about right. Plus, comparing your opponants to Hitler is as American as apple pie. It happened tens of thousands of times during the previous administration and I don't recall too many D panties in a wad because of it. Why Charles Foster Kane was burned in effigy and all he did was have a girlfriend.

Although I don't identify with the TPers, there seems to be a good case to be made that early on the Journolist types decided what the narrative about the movement was going to be and, surprise, surprise, "racism" topped the list.

Four months later and we don't have any independent corroboration of the N-word being tossed at John Lewis, despite numerous people being there to record the stunt (I seem to recall riding on the subway system we've installed at great expense to get members of congress to and from the capitol and their offices). One would assume that if proof existed, we would have seen it by now.

However, there is video of SEIU types prowling around the perimeter of TP events saying things like "I'm proud to be a racist," and other provacative (and awfully obvious) things. And one lefty outfit put out a videotape of alleged TP misdemeanors that was heavily edited and included one event from two or three years ago.

So where does that leave us? Certainly there must be some TPers who hold views on race that most of the rest of us reject. That same statistical argumet also holds true for the AFL/CIO, the Sweet Adelines and the American Legion. But should we condemn the entire movement because of it? I'm old enough to remember when people were called before the HCUA, the left constantly babbled about "guit by association," and how we should reject it. Now, not so much. Did somebody, anybody call the hero of the civil rights movement the N-word? It's certainly possible, but is it probable? I'm not convinced. And it seems to me incindiary charges like this need to be independently corroborated, and they haven't been. Because it's possible that if someone did shout the N-word, he did so to discredit the TPers, not support them.

And the journolist revelations also indicate some well placed liberals are prepared to make up charges of racism against prominent conservatives to advance their cause and change the subject. And would therefore be prepared to advance the "racism" argment against TPers, again, absent any evidence. You know, the ends justifying the means.

As someone wrote the other day: we've largely gotten past racism in this country. But we're still dealing with race-baiting.
 
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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

As someone wrote the other day: we've largely gotten past racism in this country. But we're still dealing with race-baiting.

Largely gotten past racism...what world is that person living in? This isnt the South circa 1950 but make no mistake we havent gotten close to "largely getting past racism".

Race baiting though is getting ridiculously out of control!
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Largely gotten past racism...what world is that person living in? This isnt the South circa 1950 but make no mistake we havent gotten close to "largely getting past racism".

Race baiting though is getting ridiculously out of control!

Well, he and I respectfully disagree. You may or may not belong to what George Will calls the "forever Selma" crowd, but "rampant racism" is an article of faith to many Americans, notwithstanding the diminishing evidence to prove it.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

We have a race-baiting problem because race-baiting works.

The fact that it works is all the proof we need that this country *hasn't* gotten past racism.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

We have a race-baiting problem because race-baiting works.



The fact that it works is all the proof we need that this country *hasn't* gotten past racism.

Illogical. The fact that race bating occasionally works "proves" no such thing. It "proves" that some people are unable to express themselves or their ideas without demonizing their opponants, and race baiting is the favored technique.

The fact is, the majority of us are not racists, notwithstanding the views of those for whom facts are inconvenient things.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

If race-baiting were only about antagonizing ethnic minorities, you'd be right. But it's also about taking advantage of deep-seated racial stereotypes to produce fear or anger among the majority. The first type might have been more prevalent a generation or two ago, but most of the race-baiting that goes on these days is the second type.

In other words:

Who was Breitbart's audience? If you said the NAACP . . . you lose :p
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

If race-baiting were only about antagonizing ethnic minorities, you'd be right. But it's also about taking advantage of deep-seated racial stereotypes to produce fear or anger among the majority. The first type might have been more prevalent a generation or two ago, but most of the race-baiting that goes on these days is the second type.

In other words:

Who was Breitbart's audience? If you said the NAACP . . . you lose :p

Perhaps, but it was the NAACP that acted the most shamelessly here, followed closely by the president and his soon to be fired Agriculture Secretary. Instead of "fear or anger" perhaps these recent stories generate concerns among Americans of dual standards of justice. That's the gravaman of the New Black Panther dustup. Remember that well known liberal Bartle Bull (who was Bob Kennedy's New York state campaign chairman in '68 and served in the same function for Ted Kennedy in '80 and who had spent a lot of time in the south during the civil rights era) said the voter intimidation he saw that day was the worst he'd ever encountered. That was his deposition. Isn't it just possible that people of all races might be concerned that the Obama justice department may treating violations of the Voting Rights Act based on the race of the victims and perpetrators?

I simply don't believe that these racial stereotypes of which you speak are as deep seated or as prevalent as you maintain. This belief in the fundamental racism of America is, IMHO, a substitute for thinking, for considering the other guy's point of view. Because if he's acting out of racial animus, who cares what he thinks? Right?

Juan Williams gets it right, I think:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010...obama-president-naacp-agriculture-glenn-beck/
 
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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Largely gotten past racism...what world is that person living in? This isnt the South circa 1950 but make no mistake we havent gotten close to "largely getting past racism".

Our brains are machines designed by 10 million years of field testing to find patterns and apply assumptions to them. So racism only goes away by miscegenating the patterns into randomness or replacing the stupid, vicious assumptions with either equally stupid but non-vicious assumptions or actual experience.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Race baiting though is getting ridiculously out of control!

Obama fired a person in a knee-jerk move because he's based his 2010 strategy upon racism. If it wasn't what was going on then they wouldn't have quick-fired this woman... they were hoping to bounce her and move the news cycle onto the next thing. Now this thing is warped into a strange ball... nobody knows what to do with it anymore.

The good thing about this is that the whole matter blew up... the NAACP knows they can't push the racism angle because they can't control the next episode of Breitbart's publishing unit. It also means that Breitbart will need to be more responsible for the next go. The Obama political team won't be able to use race more readily.

I have no use for racists... the "Tea Party" does not need them... they (racists) are totally useless humans. They have nothing to do with the incredible spending and the massive waste on social welfare protocols which we WILL have to pay for either through taxes or inflation.

See... the problem with the "racism" charge is this... most people care about themselves first... they don't care about the "you" that is necessary to create racism... racism is a "them" item... its a tribalist element... one group vs. the other... many people see these things as a "me" issue... you are stopping "me" from doing stuff by making "me" pay for things "I" don't want to be pay for. The problem is that this gets in the way of Democrats and their moralistic charge to save humanity from itself. That's why they need the racism brush... they need to de-legitimize the movement and its ideas by running the racism flag.

Frankly, I thought some of you expected more from this president and those that he leads.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Who was Breitbart's audience? If you said the NAACP . . . you lose :p

His audience was the White House and the political leaders. He sure made them move like a hot potato... didn't he.

The NAACP is a tool wielded by the Democrats and are owned entirely by the Democrats... therefore the target are those who control the organizations... the national political leaders in the Democratic Party.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

His audience was the White House and the political leaders. He sure made them move like a hot potato... didn't he.

The NAACP is a tool wielded by the Democrats and are owned entirely by the Democrats... therefore the target are those who control the organizations... the national political leaders in the Democratic Party.

Thus ensuring that the NAACP remains a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party? It's a curious strategy. I guess it makes sense if you've already conceded that your party has little appeal outside white voters. In which case . . . ah, yes, it's all falling into place now. :D
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Thus ensuring that the NAACP remains a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party? It's a curious strategy. I guess it makes sense if you've already conceded that your party has little appeal outside white voters. In which case . . . ah, yes, it's all falling into place now. :D

The most reliable voting group in the Democrats' aresenal is African Americans. The principal concern is with turnout, not what percentage of them will vote Democratic. That number is always somewhere in the 90s. In Florida, in the 2000, despite Jeb Bush's alleged efforts to suppress the black vote, their turnout was 67% higher than it was in '96 for Clinton, and that, as we know, nearly put Gore in the WH. Gore, recall, spent the entire last day and night of the campaign in Florida, his polling showed him what was going on there.

So this "racism" resolution at the NAACP's recent convention is no more and no less than an effort to drive up AA turnout in November. They did the same thing in 2000 with that "issue" add suggesting Governor Bush is not that much different from the people who dragged Mr. Byrd to his death in Jasper, because, after all, he's got objections to a state "hate crimes" law.

It is the Democrats who are losing their support outside of their core, not the Republicans. President Obama could not have been elected without substantial support from white independents. So it may please you at night to dream about Republican racists, but there are plenty of racists on the other side. But a Democratic racist isn't a racist, right? As I've said, ascribing some sort of horrible fundamental flaw to people who disagree with you is so much easier than actually considering their point of view and arguing against it.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Our brains are machines designed by 10 million years of field testing to find patterns and apply assumptions to them. So racism only goes away by miscegenating the patterns into randomness or replacing the stupid, vicious assumptions with either equally stupid but non-vicious assumptions or actual experience.

On the other hand, we can just ignore the evidence that challenges our deeply held prejudices and wrap it up in psuedo-intellectual gasbaggery.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Thus ensuring that the NAACP remains a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party? It's a curious strategy. I guess it makes sense if you've already conceded that your party has little appeal outside white voters. In which case . . . ah, yes, it's all falling into place now. :D

Sure is... you're about as honest as Rover and I should expect no better.

The NAACP isn't an African American organization, its an African American organization that promotes the liberal/progressive agenda. Its not an independent operator. You know this, I know this, what is there to argue about?

Now, myself, I have no problem with african americans who choose to vote Republican. I think its in their best interest because they are Americans... just like Americans of all hues.

Fact of the matter is the NAACP is just fine with people like the thankfully deceased Robert Byrd because they're on the same team. They are all on the liberal/progessive team and they believe they serve the same goals. Like a lot of organizations its hard to tell when the democrats end and the organization itself begins. The purpose of this whole issue is to denigrate the Tea Party and the NAACP is the tool by which to do so... we all know this is coordinated. Its not just coming out of nowhere... there's a movement to discredit.

Now, we all know that the NAACP aren't all african americans... ok, maybe you don't.
 
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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Now, we all know that the NAACP aren't all african americans... ok, maybe you don't.

Oh, I know it perfectly well.

But it doesn't change the facts, now, does it? The right wing blogosphere has been hell bent on hanging the reverse-racist charge on this president even before he took office. To the point of blatantly making sh-- up. After the episode this week, I don't think any serious person could question that. More importantly, Breitbart himself doesn't question that. He had an axe to grind and he needed ammo to suit his purpose.

Regardless of the NAACP's political neutrality, or the likelihood of them supporting GOP candidates, blatantly bullsh--ting about reverse racism says one thing, and one thing only. The Breitbarts of the world have decided that it is more politically advantageous to anger and motivate white voters than to work for a broader appeal. I don't hold it against them, they may well be right. My point is just: let's call a spade a spade. Some right wingers think that race-baiting works, and they're not without evidence. It's just a fact of political life in this country.
 
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