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Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Probably. But I think in general, rich people would still rather cruise around in yachts than simply sleep at home on piles of money, so there will still be spending. And you know what? Gradually reduced consumer spending (a.k.a increased personal savings) which would occur as people adjust to the new taxation methods will actually be a GOOD thing for the long-term health of the country, not a bad thing.

One thing to understand about the FairTax is that, minus existing taxes, existing prices on goods and services will necessarily be pushed downward through market forces as embedded taxes (that portion of revenue with which corporations and companies pay corporate and payroll taxes) within are removed in the name of competition. Ultimately, with the addition of the FairTax, price increases are likely to be to the tune of pennies on the dollar - hardly a catalyst for drastic decreases in consumer spending. And yet, consumers (and corporations) will have more money that they can choose to spend or save.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kep, I usually like your postings but blaming Clinton for the deficit is stark raving stupid. Of anybody Reagan to Obama who gets a free pass its Clinton who 1) pushed for the law that specifically addressed the problem (successfully mind you) at great political risk since he lost the Congress right afterwards, and 2) resisted the urge to go on either a spending spree or a tax cutting spree once the promised surplusses actually materialized. Sure, give Bush I credit for also making a tough choice that cost him dearly, but I don't see how you can do that in one breath, but then exclude the President in the next breath who made an even tougher decision a few years later.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kep, I usually like your postings but blaming Clinton for the deficit is stark raving stupid. Of anybody Reagan to Obama who gets a free pass its Clinton who 1) pushed for the law that specifically addressed the problem (successfully mind you) at great political risk since he lost the Congress right afterwards, and 2) resisted the urge to go on either a spending spree or a tax cutting spree once the promised surplusses actually materialized. Sure, give Bush I credit for also making a tough choice that cost him dearly, but I don't see how you can do that in one breath, but then exclude the President in the next breath who made an even tougher decision a few years later.

I think you're quite wrong. Clinton didn't do anything to fundamentally change our economic policies and priorities. Welfare reform was nice and slight tweaks to the tax code were nice, but he and the GOP Congress mostly lucked into their windfall because (a) the dot com boom gave them surging revenues, (b) the demographic demon hadn't been released yet because Boomers were still working and not retiring to live off the public teat, and (c) he had a fairly stable world that should have triggered massive reductions in our Cold War footing, both in the defense budget and in our ludicrously overreaching global empire. (The same empire that ****ed the natives off enough to throw planes through our buildings -- and even that he didn't have to deal with.)

Now, I will grant you that (c) was partly to his credit since he didn't do anything as maniacally stupid as Bush's War to Avenge Daddy. But all of Clinton's supposed hard ball toughness was directed towards his own constituents. He had a landscape where he could have restored fairness to the tax code and sanity to the military budget, yet he never made a move to do either because it was just too hard. He ran scared of lunatics on talk radio and cynical opportunists in the GOP Congress when he should have been taking the wood to them for being Wrong On Everything. Gore didn't lose just because he was a wooden indian, but because the left was so utterly unimpressed by Clintonism that they sat on their hands or voted for a numbskull like Nader. And that has made all the difference.
 
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We've got to figure out how to get our education dept to produce a better product....

Our "education department" isn't doing anything that can't be fixed by parents that actually give a rip about parenting their own friggin children. Preferably two, but at least one parent/guardian that makes sure their kids go to school, pay attention, respect their educators, do their homework, repeat wash and rinse. There's not a school you can't learn from if you put in the effort.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Which will shrink if we switch to a national sales tax.

The bigger issue is, instead, that while the overall savings rate is 0%, that's not uniform across income brackets. Additionally, we're running a pretty hefty deficit right now, as I'm sure youv'e noticed. Tax rates are going to go up even if we stay with the income tax.

So if that money isn't spent then it will be saved. That leads to more investment and greater production for the country. That leads to more long-term growth.

Yes there will likely be a some temporary pain, but as others have been stated all money gets spent eventually. Its just a matter of how much growth it generates along the way.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Fed Audit fails 37-62. This was the one proposed by Vitter, pretty much party line vote, except for Bob Bennett (who up until Saturday was in favor of it), McConnell, and John Kyl.

I think the vote on the Sanders version is still to come.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Our "education department" isn't doing anything that can't be fixed by parents that actually give a rip about parenting their own friggin children. Preferably two, but at least one parent/guardian that makes sure their kids go to school, pay attention, respect their educators, do their homework, repeat wash and rinse. There's not a school you can't learn from if you put in the effort.

Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ. Thank you.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

I think you're quite wrong. Clinton didn't do anything to fundamentally change our economic policies and priorities. Welfare reform was nice and slight tweaks to the tax code were nice, but he and the GOP Congress mostly lucked into their windfall because (a) the dot com boom gave them surging revenues, (b) the demographic demon hadn't been released yet because Boomers were still working and not retiring to live off the public teat, and (c) he had a fairly stable world that should have triggered massive reductions in our Cold War footing, both in the defense budget and in our ludicrously overreaching global empire. (The same empire that ****ed the natives off enough to throw planes through our buildings -- and even that he didn't have to deal with.)

Now, I will grant you that (c) was partly to his credit since he didn't do anything as maniacally stupid as Bush's War to Avenge Daddy. But all of Clinton's supposed hard ball toughness was directed towards his own constituents. He had a landscape where he could have restored fairness to the tax code and sanity to the military budget, yet he never made a move to do either because it was just too hard. He ran scared of lunatics on talk radio and cynical opportunists in the GOP Congress when he should have been taking the wood to them for being Wrong On Everything. Gore didn't lose just because he was a wooden indian, but because the left was so utterly unimpressed by Clintonism that they sat on their hands or voted for a numbskull like Nader. And that has made all the difference.

Kep this is ridculous on multiple levels. I'd expect this rant out of Ann Coulter.

Lets address one by one.

a) dot com bubble = surplus is chapter 1 of The Book of Right Wing Talking Points. In reality that's ludicrious. The 22M jobs gained under Clinton's admin never went away, as they would have if an overwhelming % of them were based on an unrealistic bubble. By spouting this idiocy you play into the hands of those who wish the 90's never existed because they do not want a recent standard to be measured by (really, if what you say is true politicians can just throw up their hands and say balanced budgets can't be done...even though they WERE done a decade ago).

b) The demographic boom was well aware of, which is why paying down the deficit was the primary focus of the budget. See, if you aren't in debt, or are in a lot less debt, it makes handling the demographic issue a lot easier. Instead post Clinton we got a tax cut and spending spree, which is the real cause of the country's problems.

c) stable world my@ ss. Another talking point. Rather it was a dangerous world but one where US relations with allies was much better. Think about it - Clinton uses force to end genocide in Balkans. Serbs run to Russia for help...who promply tells them to get lost. China starts threatening Tiawan...US send warships through Staits to send them a message - ****. Good relations, and the peace and prosperity of the 90's, didn't happen by accident. People believing that is what got us George W Bush.


The bottom line is, be it you're a liberal, moderate, or conservative, there's credit to be passed around for everybody for the 90's economy and budgets. Newt Gingrich, a guy I don't like, did his job and made the necessary deals to pass the Clinton budgets for example. However, if you're going to take the tact that none of that was real, you have nobody to blame but yourself if you don't have a standard to hold current officeholders too. Simply put, the voters made a catastrophic mistake switching from level headed financial planning (balanced budget = investor confidence in US market = capital inflows = job creation) to Santa Clause economics (huge tax cuts + huge spending increases = balanced budgets). If we are to believe your take on history, there's no reason for them not to do so again since the level headed planning never existed apparently.

The beauty of our government is that you get what you voted for. The country's current state of affairs is in direct relation to a stupid change of direction 10 years ago, and there's nobody to blame for that but ourselves. The notion that we wouldn't be in a much, much, much better fiscal situation if we'd continued the policies of the Clinton/Gingrich era is one I strongly reject.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The notion that we wouldn't be in a much, much, much better fiscal situation if we'd continued the policies of the Clinton/Gingrich era is one I strongly reject.

It's not a notion that I'm forwarding, either. Continuing C/G would have been much, much, much better than Dubya in the way that a bad cough is much, much, much better than lung cancer, but the whole point should be to stop smoking.

Remember, the "surplus" in 2000 was largely a forgery created by moving tons of spending off the books or down river. Of course it was better than the monumental stupidity that came afterwards, anything would have been, but it was not a systemic change and we would still have a huge debt, it would be $8 trillion rather than $12 trillion.
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Our "education department" isn't doing anything that can't be fixed by parents that actually give a rip about parenting their own friggin children. Preferably two, but at least one parent/guardian that makes sure their kids go to school, pay attention, respect their educators, do their homework, repeat wash and rinse. There's not a school you can't learn from if you put in the effort.

As a future teacher I would have to agree :)

Although the Strib did just do an article about how hard it is to actually fire bad teachers which needs to change as well.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

As a future teacher I would have to agree :)

Although the Strib did just do an article about how hard it is to actually fire bad teachers which needs to change as well.

I saw that article. They contradicted themselves at the end of it, but I agree there needs to be a mechanism of some sort that isn't overly difficult but isn't draconian either.

Worst thing that ever happened to education was getting the Feds involved, and the States. You'd have 10s of thousands of laboratories across the United States for education innovation and reform if you didn't have so many mandates at the State and Federal level crippling that very thing.

Sad.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

I saw that article. They contradicted themselves at the end of it, but I agree there needs to be a mechanism of some sort that isn't overly difficult but isn't draconian either.

Worst thing that ever happened to education was getting the Feds involved, and the States. You'd have 10s of thousands of laboratories across the United States for education innovation and reform if you didn't have so many mandates at the State and Federal level crippling that very thing.

Sad.

This is probably the only thing I agree with FDR on. We need to get rid of public sector unions. You should not be able to vote yourself a raise.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

As a future teacher I would have to agree :)

Although the Strib did just do an article about how hard it is to actually fire bad teachers which needs to change as well.

Tenure for K-12 is beyond stupid (no offense). The point of the tenure system at universities and colleges is to encourage professors to branch out in their research past what might normally be considered reasonable in search of new discoveries and technologies. K-12 teachers just teach students.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Seeing as there are no real world examples of the FairTax, I'm not sure there are such things as "hard numbers" available.
Which negates you're earlier comments that it won't work. There are no real world examples that show it won't.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Which negates you're earlier comments that it won't work. There are no real world examples that show it won't.

No. I said there are no hard numbers, because not even a bass-ackwards dictatorship in some third world country relies solely on sales taxes to fund a national government.

However, the anecdotal evidence based on current sales taxes favor my interpretation. Obviously, they aren't conducted in a pristine environment and are tainted by the presence of other forms of taxation, but nonetheless, they're there. Call them circumstantial evidence or soft numbers or whatever you wish, they're still more than anything the the proponents have.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Which negates you're earlier comments that it won't work. There are no real world examples that show it won't.

Exactly why I cut him off. He's got all the answers for why it won't work, but when you show him why it can work, "oh, there's no real world examples."

Childish.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Exactly why I cut him off. He's got all the answers for why it won't work, but when you show him why it can work, "oh, there's no real world examples."

Childish.
And yet, who's resorted to name-calling?

Nothing you've posted here refutes any of my assertions, all you've said is that you either don't care about them or think they'll turn out differently.
 
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