Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

However, if you're going to take the tact [sic] that none of that was real, you have nobody to blame but yourself if you don't have a standard to hold current officeholders too.

Whereas your "standard" is that anyone who was the least bit better than Bush II is a saint?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Whereas your "standard" is that anyone who was the least bit better than Bush II is a saint?

So, Jimmy Carter is a saint then? Cause he's the only one who even comes close to Bush II.

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

FactCheck.org on FairTax. (From 2007, dunno if current formulations are the same)

Although they certainly may have tried to present an honest appraisal of what the Fair Tax would do, it's pretty obvious that the FactCheck.org analysis was hampered by a lack of understanding of the Fair Tax.

They relied quite a bit on information from the Presidents Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform. I'm sorry but I just have trouble accepting any kind of financial information coming out of the federal government as factual any more, even if it's from a panel that has some non-governmental members on it.

I don't know for sure if the Fair Tax will work as planned. But the naysayers also don't know that it won't work as planned. There's only one way to find out. As far as I'm concerned the current tax system is broke. I would like to see us go to the Fair Tax, or even a flat tax, as an alternative.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Sanders amendment passes 96-0. Not as strong as the Vitter amendment, but at least it's something?

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

a) dot com bubble = surplus is chapter 1 of The Book of Right Wing Talking Points. In reality that's ludicrious.

I don't think he said "dot com bubble"... the issue there is that the internet age made resource management incredibly efficient... you can do over the internet which you previously needed a phone, fax machine, and standard mail to get done. The internet advanced a lot of the gains because it made the pace of business that much faster and it increased the flow of money and as a result of that flow of money wages went up and costs didn't inflate.

That's why we aren't by and large cracking at the seams under 10% unemployment. The internet made ourselves that much more efficient as a society and with the money changing hands faster that improved federal revenue streams.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Sanders amendment passes 96-0. Not as strong as the Vitter amendment, but at least it's something?

you would think Sanders would something along the lines of an anal probe... but then you have to remember in the end for most socialists the end goal is to have power for all kinds of decisions centralized... so one has to be careful when they decide to gut an institution. People may say that they don't want the shadowy hand of government acting and ask for more transparency... transparency alerts the people which gets in the way of agendas.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Our "education department" isn't doing anything that can't be fixed by parents that actually give a rip about parenting their own friggin children. Preferably two, but at least one parent/guardian that makes sure their kids go to school, pay attention, respect their educators, do their homework, repeat wash and rinse. There's not a school you can't learn from if you put in the effort.

True...many of our greatest achievers were taught in 1 room school houses.

However, the challenges of today aren't the same as they were then...to your point, we've got a whole different family structure, new values, new risks etc.

That is something that faces every organization trying to accomplish anything in this country, they don't all fail...the buck stops in two places, the parent/family and the organization spending billions of dollars to produce a product that gets worse every year.

The DOE doesn't teach the kids but they supposedly set the direction for the whole effort, and should be taking the above issues into account, instead they lead an effort that fails to achieve acceptable targets...if they add nothing to the equation then they should be eliminated.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

you would think Sanders would something along the lines of an anal probe... but then you have to remember in the end for most socialists the end goal is to have power for all kinds of decisions centralized... so one has to be careful when they decide to gut an institution. People may say that they don't want the shadowy hand of government acting and ask for more transparency... transparency alerts the people which gets in the way of agendas.

This is great. "My ideology dictates X would do A. But he did Not A. So obviously he's just being sneaky."

Or maybe you're just wrong.

How about this. The Fed is the hand maiden of the big banks. Socialists think big banks should not allowed to operate in the shadows when they can destroy the entire economy with their incompetence. Hopefully, all of us think this. But, because they aren't crazy, socialists will also draft compromise measures to get things done. In other words, they're just another wing of the political spectrum, not some bad booga booga.

A little less nefarious. A lot more sensible. But it would make your assumptions falsifiable, and we can't have that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

I don't know for sure if the Fair Tax will work as planned. But the naysayers also don't know that it won't work as planned. There's only one way to find out. As far as I'm concerned the current tax system is broke. I would like to see us go to the Fair Tax, or even a flat tax, as an alternative.

I would like to see an alternative, too. I'm old fashioned, but I also care about the impact of taxation relative to wealth. And so do the wealthy. We just care in opposite ways.

Here's a simple tax -- 90% of all income over $100k, zero under. Workable? Of course not. Elegant, simple and very hard to cheat? Yes, indeed. Fair? Eye of the beholder.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

I would like to see an alternative, too. I'm old fashioned, but I also care about the impact of taxation relative to wealth. And so do the wealthy. We just care in opposite ways.

Here's a simple tax -- 90% of all income over $100k, zero under. Workable? Of course not. Elegant, simple and very hard to cheat? Yes, indeed. Fair? Eye of the beholder.

Tax Rates from 1955 (yr I was born):

	Married Filing Jointly	
Marginal	Tax Brackets	
Tax Rate        Over
20.0%	       $0   
22.0%	       $4,000     
26.0%	       $8,000      
30.0%	       $12,000      
34.0%	       $16,000
38.0%	       $20,000 	
43.0%	       $24,000 	
47.0%	       $28,000 	
50.0%	       $32,000 	
53.0%	       $36,000 
56.0%	       $40,000 	
59.0%	       $44,000 	
62.0%	       $52,000 	
65.0%	       $64,000 	
69.0%	       $76,000 	
72.0%	       $88,000 	
75.0%	       $100,000 
78.0%	       $120,000 
81.0%	       $140,000 
84.0%	       $160,000 
87.0%	       $180,000 
89.0%	       $200,000 
90.0%	       $300,000
91.0%	       $400,000

CPI = 100

1970 - Cornell's last championship

	Married Filing Jointly	
Marginal	Tax Brackets	
Tax Rate	Over	
14.0%	$0
15.0%	$1,000 	
16.0%	$2,000 
17.0%	$3,000  
19.0%	$4,000  
22.0%	$8,000  
25.0%	$12,000 
28.0%	$16,000 
32.0%	$20,000 
36.0%	$24,000 
39.0%	$28,000 
42.0%	$32,000 
45.0%	$36,000 
48.0%	$40,000 
50.0%	$44,000 
53.0%	$52,000 
55.0%	$64,000 
58.0%	$76,000 
60.0%	$88,000 
62.0%	$100,000 
64.0%	$120,000 
66.0%	$140,000 
68.0%	$160,000 
69.0%	$180,000 
70.0%	$200,000

Note: Excludes effect of 2.5 percent surtax.		
CPI = 137

Current Rates

	Married Filing Jointly	
Marginal	Tax Brackets	
Tax Rate	Over	
10.0%	$0
15.0%	$16,750	
25.0%	$68,000	
28.0%	$137,300	
33.0%	$209,250	
35.0%	$373,650	

Current CPI = 812 or 100,000 in 1955 = 812,000 in 2010

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

So if we had the same tax structure as famed socialist Dwight D. Eisenhower, it would look like this:

20.00%	$0
22.00%	$32,480
26.00%	$64,960
30.00%	$97,440
34.00%	$129,920
38.00%	$162,400
43.00%	$194,880
47.00%	$227,360
50.00%	$259,840
53.00%	$292,320
56.00%	$324,800
59.00%	$357,280
62.00%	$422,240
65.00%	$519,680
69.00%	$617,120
72.00%	$714,560
75.00%	$812,000
78.00%	$974,400
81.00%	$1,136,800
84.00%	$1,299,200
87.00%	$1,461,600
89.00%	$1,624,000
90.00%	$2,436,000
91.00%	$3,248,000

Since married filing jointly now usually includes 2 rather than 1 income, let's double the marginal intervals:

20.00%	$0
22.00%	$64,960
26.00%	$129,920
30.00%	$194,880
34.00%	$259,840
38.00%	$324,800
43.00%	$389,760
47.00%	$454,720
50.00%	$519,680
53.00%	$584,640
56.00%	$649,600
59.00%	$714,560
62.00%	$844,480
65.00%	$1,039,360
69.00%	$1,234,240
72.00%	$1,429,120
75.00%	$1,624,000
78.00%	$1,948,800
81.00%	$2,273,600
84.00%	$2,598,400
87.00%	$2,923,200
89.00%	$3,248,000
90.00%	$4,872,000
91.00%	$6,496,000

I am totally on board with that.

It would be nice if they released taxable income point data (with any identifying info scrubbed) so you could run trials of any rate schedule and see what the revenue would be.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

So if we had the same tax structure as famed socialist Dwight D. Eisenhower, it would look like this:

20.00%	$0
22.00%	$32,480
26.00%	$64,960
30.00%	$97,440
34.00%	$129,920
38.00%	$162,400
43.00%	$194,880
47.00%	$227,360
50.00%	$259,840
53.00%	$292,320
56.00%	$324,800
59.00%	$357,280
62.00%	$422,240
65.00%	$519,680
69.00%	$617,120
72.00%	$714,560
75.00%	$812,000
78.00%	$974,400
81.00%	$1,136,800
84.00%	$1,299,200
87.00%	$1,461,600
89.00%	$1,624,000
90.00%	$2,436,000
91.00%	$3,248,000

I can live with that. (Provided we also roll back to the payroll tax and corporate tax rates of 1955).

You would effectively destroy professional sports in the US and the movie industry though... and I think you'd find a lot of high-level guys off-shoring themselves.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

You would effectively destroy professional sports in the US and the movie industry though...

Not at all. If I'm Tom Cruise and I can command $10M a year, but I'm taxed higher, my price just went up.

 

[one_to7]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Not at all. If I'm Tom Cruise and I can command $10M a year, but I'm taxed higher, my price just went up.

Do you understand how the economy works?

So his price goes up 2-3x what it is now (and he'd still be taking an absolutely huge effective pay cut), and the movie studio is just going to eat those costs? No, they'll pass it along the rest of the way, leading to ticket prices going up 2-3x what they are now. And even then they'd still make less money than they do now.

But if they shift the industry to another country, then they won't have to pay our absurd taxes. Which is exactly what will happen over time.

But hey, tax revenues will go up for a little while; until they absolutely bottom out. Good plan.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

stop taxation now!!! we never should have had an income tax! its the source of all evil in the American government. and I'm only half kidding ...

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Not at all. If I'm Tom Cruise and I can command $10M a year, but I'm taxed higher, my price just went up.

the movie industry may make a lot... but if you were making 10 before you'd have to quote yourself in the neighborhood of 70-80 to take home the same amount. Eventually either 1) Tom Cruise will accept less, 2) there will be fewer movies, or 3) they all find that Canada is kinda like America but with lower taxes.

edit: under your scenario the KHL would become the world's premier hockey league as well

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

why would anyone pay Tom Cruise that much. isn't he gay?
(sorry ... off topic) (having fun tonight)

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

stop taxation now!!! we never should have had an income tax! its the source of all evil in the American government. and I'm only half kidding ...

If you're a quarter kidding...you don't have any understanding of the critical nature of public goods in society. This from a business major and MBA.

I don't think he said "dot com bubble"... the issue there is that the internet age made resource management incredibly efficient... you can do over the internet which you previously needed a phone, fax machine, and standard mail to get done. The internet advanced a lot of the gains because it made the pace of business that much faster and it increased the flow of money and as a result of that flow of money wages went up and costs didn't inflate.

Rover has made a number of valid points IMO. The 90s was a role model of what American society should look like. I'd love to have Keps view...but Rovs is what we can hope for.

By working closely with our allies, striving to constructively solve world problems, setting up an open framework for creativity in business...we can developed a platform for the real growth that was the 90s. If we don't create encompassing confict against international lightweights or the direction of American society, greatness is possible. The goal of govt should be take care of the basics with out messing it up...and this seems like a very difficult goal for many administrations not led by Clinton/Gingrich.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

we had no income tax until 1913. tariffs, property taxes, licenses, etc should be all the $$$$ the gov't gets.

 

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

By working closely with our allies, striving to constructively solve world problems, setting up an open framework for creativity in business...we can developed a platform for the real growth that was the 90s. If we don't create encompassing confict against international lightweights or the direction of American society, greatness is possible. The goal of govt should be take care of the basics with out messing it up...and this seems like a very difficult goal for many administrations not led by Clinton/Gingrich.

I notice that re-establishing personal accountability isn't amongst the solutions to our problems. Which should be #1 on your list. Until people begin striving for self-sustainability, the nasty downward spiral our federal budget is in will be very, VERY difficult to reverse.

[I can only assume you're a couple drinks deep here with the various grammatical errors. Good job outta ya.....nice to see even a tightly-wound cynic like you lets loose every now and again ]