Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

[ScottM]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

great news! Our senators admit they have no friggin clue what they're doing:"It's a great moment. I'm proud to have been here. No one will know until this is actually in place how it works." - Chris Dodd (D-Conn)
But I guess the most important thing is, they did something. Right? Who cares about consequences?

Throw 'em all out.

Considering I've already taken two calls from headhunters this morning, I would say that's about right.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

There's a plan for everything, but things don't always go according to plan. You know how anything will work before it starts working?

Men plan. God laughs.

sure, it's tough to predict how it might break. But how it might work? Wouldn't some clue be good there?
Not that I have a clue. But I'm not running to take charge of commerce, either.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Partly. But partly it's you have to go where the votes are, or you're toast. You can't be the angry old straight white southern fundamentalist male party forever.

One of my fundamental concerns is that we're adding proportionately more voters to the 'what is the country going to do for me?' block every year.

I guess one side can ride that tide but I'm not sure I'd be as proud of it as many are. Which is far different from saying I agree with the opposing party (my standard disclaimer for those who assume you have to be in one camp or the other).

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

One of my fundamental concerns is that we're adding proportionately more voters to the 'what is the country going to do for me?' block every year.

I don't think there's any objective evidence that people are any more or any less dependent, decadent, self-seeking, self-sacrificing, etc than they ever were -- nostalgic looks at the past never yield real information, and people have been saying "our fathers were more self-reliant than we are" since the Roman Empire.

As for whether the party currently in ascendancy promotes dependency, I disagree entirely (no surprise). Removing barriers to people having a equal chance is completely different from trying to ensure equality of result, and it always has been. The latter charge is a false rhetorical device used by those who don't want to see any change that threatens their advantages.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

great news! Our senators admit they have no friggin clue what they're doing:
"It's a great moment. I'm proud to have been here. No one will know until this is actually in place how it works." - Chris Dodd (D-Conn)
But I guess the most important thing is, they did something. Right? Who cares about consequences?

Throw 'em all out.

Great! Until we get to the ballot box and think about Senator Shmidlapp who has been in the Senate for 30 years and was at your daughter's HS graduation last year and you still have that picture on the mantle.

The lever gets pulled for Shmidlapp -- and we continue to wonder why this country is on the road to perdition.....

 

[busterman62]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Removing barriers to people having a equal chance is completely different from trying to ensure equality of result, and it always has been. The latter charge is a false rhetorical device used by those who don't want to see any change that threatens their advantages.

I take it that you are a major fan of Title IX and how it is being applied?

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

I don't think there's any objective evidence that people are any more or any less dependent, decadent, self-seeking, self-sacrificing, etc than they ever were -- nostalgic looks at the past never yield real information, and people have been saying "our fathers were more self-reliant than we are" since the Roman Empire.

Quite a load, but please continue

As for whether the party currently in ascendancy promotes dependency, I disagree entirely (no surprise). Removing barriers to people having a equal chance is completely different from trying to ensure equality of result, and it always has been. The latter charge is a false rhetorical device used by those who don't want to see any change that threatens their advantages.

I would too... but that's because the Republicans are in the ascendant position right now.

The entire plank of the Democrats is "government". Every solution is "government". I fail to see how that isn't dependence. Dependence doesn't create freedom. Democratic party envisioned health care is a very specific mind of health care and (I can go over the details) is about as dependent as it gets... worse they say that its unfair or immoral to operate outside of this dependence (for instance, take a look at England's NHS when you go off the "plan").

I can go deeper into this... but you seem to be saying is that government action favors freedom either by punishing certain actors of facilitating (believed) favorable results. The Dems only answer to "removing barriers" is to spend money in a moral fashion.

-----

Anybody notice the transparent White House is meeting lobbyists at a coffee house? Suppose that means they'd be OK with people listening in on their conversations? Anybody want to be the answer is "no".

The culture of corruption continues.

 

[Slap Shot]

The entire plank of the Democrats is "government". Every solution is "government".

Pshaw. The dems want more people in goverment while the reps want to conrol more people via the government. Pick your poison, but neither is defintively better than the other and pretending otherwise is folly.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Pshaw. The dems want more people in goverment while the reps want to conrol more people via the government.

...and if the GOP doesn't hire a dude to work the govt to do public good...it's because they'd rather hire him, put him in a uniform and stick him in the middle of Germany.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Pshaw. The dems want more people in goverment while the reps want to conrol more people via the government. Pick your poison, but neither is defintively better than the other and pretending otherwise is folly.

The dems equality is lowest common denominator equality. Become dependent upon us and we'll deliver the opium.

The reps equality is survival of the fittest in a game with house rules. As long as you are winning the game is fair.

That we swerve from one guardrail to the other is a function of political parties, special interests and people with the intellect of a toad balanced by the attention span of a flea.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The dems equality is lowest common denominator equality. Become dependent upon us and we'll deliver the opium.

The reps equality is survival of the fittest in a game with house rules. As long as you are winning the game is fair.

That we swerve from one guardrail to the other is a function of political parties, special interests and people with the intellect of a toad balanced by the attention span of a flea.

Pretty dark view...but with some validity.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

1) I would too... but that's because the Republicans are in the ascendant position right now.

2) The entire plank of the Democrats is "government". Every solution is "government". I fail to see how that isn't dependence. Dependence doesn't create freedom. Democratic party envisioned health care is a very specific mind of health care and (I can go over the details) is about as dependent as it gets... worse they say that its unfair or immoral to operate outside of this dependence (for instance, take a look at England's NHS when you go off the "plan").

3) I can go deeper into this... but you seem to be saying is that government action favors freedom either by punishing certain actors of facilitating (believed) favorable results. The Dems only answer to "removing barriers" is to spend money in a moral fashion.

-----

1) Did I miss an election or something? Because last time I checked the Dems had the WH, House, and Senate by margins not seen for the GOP since the 20's, if ever.

2) The entire Republican conservative plank is government too, in case you haven't noticed. Name me where Bush II, Bush I, Reagan, Ford, Nixon, etc actually shrank government? This ought to be good. I do recall that perscription drug benefit, Patriot Act, etc though...

3) Please feel free to expound upon your wisdom. I do have to wonder though, wouldn't it be more productive for you to go find a job with your time instead of posting out here. For someone with a declared "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" mantra, you sure seem to have an awful hard time finding yours.

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The budget deficits from FY2001-2015 are estimated at $11.49 trillion. The budget deficit from 1789-2000 combined was $4.16 trillion.

Edit: When Ike left office, the US had a cumulative budget deficit of $259 billion. When Carter left office the budget deficit was a cumulative $834 billion. Since FY1981 the deficit is $15.045 trillion.

(estimates are through FY2015)

Didn't read the article for the specific details, but there is some economist who just looked back on economic data for I guess this century, and says that right around 1981, for whatever measure you're looking at, there's an abrupt change in direction, and not in a good direction.

Hmmm, what happened around 1981, anyway? Anyone help me out here?

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Didn't read the article for the specific details, but there is some economist who just looked back on economic data for I guess this century, and says that right around 1981, for whatever measure you're looking at, there's an abrupt change in direction, and not in a good direction.

Hmmm, what happened around 1981, anyway? Anyone help me out here?

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts

Tip O'Neill and Ronald Reagan reached an understanding. Tip O'Neill got all the social spending he wanted, and Reagan got all the defense spending he wanted. And neither worried about how to pay for it.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Very good article showing how govt's good intentions lead to unintended consequences; how gov't programs perpetuate the very problems they are supposed to solve.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Calling the left cynical is such overt projection. Calling the right cynical is straightfoward: I'm alright Jack keep your hands offa my stack. But calling the left cynical involves this bizarre tinfoil hat argument that they don't care about the causes they espouse, they're just creating a "welfare farm" or somesuch.

Why not just call the left naive? That at least would be arguable without invoking A Huge Conspiracy?

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Wiki

Cynicism (Greek: κυνισμός), in its original form, refers to the beliefs of an ancient school of Greek philosophers known as the Cynics (Greek: Κυνικοί, Latin: Cynici). Their philosophy was that the purpose of life was to live a life of Virtue in agreement with Nature. This meant rejecting all conventional desires for wealth, power, health, and fame, and by living a simple life free from all possessions. As reasoning creatures, people could gain happiness by rigorous training and by living in a way which was natural for humans. They believed that the world belonged equally to everyone, and that suffering was caused by false judgments of what was valuable and by the worthless customs and conventions which surrounded society.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Wiki

Hey, very nice. Not sure the big guy would make a great contemporary lefty, though. This guy, though, right up the alley.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

This is fun. If you ever looked at a Research 2000 poll, what with it's incredibly high approval ratings for Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and such, and thought, "That's Bull*." Guess what? You were right!

Being sued for fraud. by the Daily Kos. Oops.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

1) Did I miss an election or something? Because last time I checked the Dems had the WH, House, and Senate by margins not seen for the GOP since the 20's, if ever.

And what have they done with it? If the GOP had these bullet-proof majorities they would have screwed it up just as much. Neither side has a great track record. Neither side deserves to win.

2) The entire Republican conservative plank is government too, in case you haven't noticed. Name me where Bush II, Bush I, Reagan, Ford, Nixon, etc actually shrank government? This ought to be good. I do recall that perscription drug benefit, Patriot Act, etc though...

And for going back on their pledge, the GOP were rightly turned out of office. The American people decided if they wanted runamuck government, they need the experts.

Edit: Had a thought. BHO has been in office 17 months+ and he is about to have his 13th thread on USCHO. Think what you will, but he is a hot topic!!