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Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/29/italy-fights-for-crucifixes-in-classrooms/?hpt=C1

Apparently Italy didn't realize that when you join the EU, you render yourself impotent... Makes me wonder how the Church of England is affected by these rulings.

Disregard the base issue of crucifixes. Completely put that aside (or foxton is going to get all hot and bothered). Why would a country give up its right to make its own court rulings with no other court having the final say? I just don't get it.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

dxmnkd316 said:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/29/italy-fights-for-crucifixes-in-classrooms/?hpt=C1

Apparently Italy didn't realize that when you join the EU, you render yourself impotent... Makes me wonder how the Church of England is affected by these rulings.

Disregard the base issue of crucifixes. Completely put that aside (or foxton is going to get all hot and bothered). Why would a country give up its right to make its own court rulings with no other court having the final say? I just don't get it.
Click to expand...

Why did these governments? If the EU is just a glorified trade zone, it doesn't make sense. If it is on the way to becoming a unified political state like the US, there will have to be some sort of supreme judicial authority.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

dxmnkd316 said:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/29/italy-fights-for-crucifixes-in-classrooms/?hpt=C1

Apparently Italy didn't realize that when you join the EU, you render yourself impotent... Makes me wonder how the Church of England is affected by these rulings.

Disregard the base issue of crucifixes. Completely put that aside (or foxton is going to get all hot and bothered). Why would a country give up its right to make its own court rulings with no other court having the final say? I just don't get it.
Click to expand...
A variation of states rights it seems but if you want to be part of the club you agree to abide by certain rules. If a higher court is part of that then...

And I hold little hope for Italy considering their agreements with the Vatican basically mean they have to bow to the Pope. Such as the incident with Sabina Guzzanti insulting the Pope a couple years ago where people wanted to throw her in jail that eventually petered out.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Foxton said:
A variation of states rights it seems but if you want to be part of the club you agree to abide by certain rules. If a higher court is part of that then...

And I hold little hope for Italy considering their agreements with the Vatican basically mean they have to bow to the Pope. Such as the incident with Sabina Guzzanti insulting the Pope a couple years ago where people wanted to throw her in jail that eventually petered out.
Click to expand...

Here's an interesting issue, though. I think of the deals between the Italian government and the Vatican to be similar to the treaties signed between the US government and indian tribes. As part of the Risorgimento, the Papal States were defeated by Sardinian armies. Agreements reflected the passing of temporal authority in all of the regions formerly controlled by the Papacy, except the Vatican, to the Italian state. Now Italy begins to be absorbed into a larger state. Can the EU just nullify those agreements? If my company is acquired by a larger one, they can't just nullify the contracts I have with my customers.

I suppose the procedural way around this is to say that Italy joined the EU by plebiscite hence Italians have agreed to being governed by EU rules, but that wouldn't help in another case in which the privileges being protected were for a minority group within the former sovereign state that couldn't protect themselves in the plebiscite. Let's say the US annexed Canada via Canada-wide (rather than province-by-province) plebiscite. Could the US Congress mandate: (1) no requirement for French on interstate highway signs in Maryland? (certainly); (2) no requirement for French on interstate highway signs in Quebec? (maybe, although obviously not without risk of Quebecois secession); (3) no requirement for French on interstate highway signs in Ontario? (that's the most interesting case).
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kepler said:
Here's an interesting issue, though. I think of the deals between the Italian government and the Vatican to be similar to the treaties signed between the US government and indian tribes. As part of the Risorgimento, the Papal States were defeated by Sardinian armies. Agreements reflected the passing of temporal authority in all of the regions formerly controlled by the Papacy, except the Vatican, to the Italian state. Now Italy begins to be absorbed into a larger state. Can the EU just nullify those agreements? If my company is acquired by a larger one, they can't just nullify the contracts I have with my customers.

I suppose the procedural way around this is to say that Italy joined the EU by plebiscite hence Italians have agreed to being governed by EU rules, but that wouldn't help in another case in which the privileges being protected were for a minority group within the former sovereign state that couldn't protect themselves in the plebiscite. Let's say the US annexed Canada via Canada-wide (rather than province-by-province) plebiscite. Could the US Congress mandate: (1) no requirement for French on interstate highway signs in Maryland? (certainly); (2) no requirement for French on interstate highway signs in Quebec? (maybe, although obviously not without risk of Quebecois secession); (3) no requirement for French on interstate highway signs in Ontario? (that's the most interesting case).
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But will the distances be in miles or kilometers???

Interesting note: Went on business 2 summers ago to Puerto Rico. The speed limit is in MPH, the distances in kilometers, and the gas in liters.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kepler said:
Why did these governments? If the EU is just a glorified trade zone, it doesn't make sense. If it is on the way to becoming a unified political state like the US, there will have to be some sort of supreme judicial authority.
Click to expand...

I don't think we can exactly compare the US to the EU at the present moment.

Regarding the rest of your post, I don't disagree. But I think the EU is going to have to do some hard thinking in the next 5-10 years (give or take) about what it truly represents like you said.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Foxton said:
A variation of states rights it seems but if you want to be part of the club you agree to abide by certain rules. If a higher court is part of that then...

And I hold little hope for Italy considering their agreements with the Vatican basically mean they have to bow to the Pope. Such as the incident with Sabina Guzzanti insulting the Pope a couple years ago where people wanted to throw her in jail that eventually petered out.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with this either. If that's what they signed up for, well, they can reap the benefits as well as the consequences.

I just think these nations that are pushing for a more unified global government are starting to see the down side of giving up your sovereignty and that one size doesn't fit all.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

dxmnkd316 said:
Regarding the rest of your post, I don't disagree. But I think the EU is going to have to do some hard thinking in the next 5-10 years (give or take) about what it truly represents like you said.
Click to expand...

I have a feeling it will be in a state of evolution throughout all our lifetimes, and that core areas and peripheral areas will always have significant de facto if not de jure differences. France, Germany and Benelux could probably have a total unification today without much problem. Sweden, Denmark, Italy, the Czech Republic and Austria could maybe be subsumed into that group albeit with serious problems. But Spain, Poland, the Balkans? If I were a solid German burgher I don't think I'd want my inflation rate at their whim. And if they do decide to become a true Borgian United States of Europe, that leaves the Brits out -- England has more in common with Sierra Leone than Sergio Leone.
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Reading about the whole financial reform effort, I have two questions here for our righty friends:

1) What exactly about the bill does your party find so objectionable, and

2) What is the GOP plan for dealing with the financial meltdown? Not, 'this senator proposed this' or 'the Rep has this plan', but what does the GOP conference as a party endorse? Because from what I'm reading, I'm not sure I've seen any sort of consensus plan out of that side of the aisle.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

If it goes anything like the health care debate, here are your answers:

(1) Everything in the bill, regardless of what it says.

(2) Absolutely nothing. Not that there isn't a plan, its just that the plan is to contribute absolutely nothing. Then, when the Democrats concoct the most bizarre and overblown bill known to man (which is evidently what they do when the Republicans pick up their ball and go home), they will complain about it endlessly both publicly and through media outlets until they are (ironically) blue in the face. Then they willl likely try to take advantage of any potential public outrage in 2012 (or this fall, even).

(3) Sarah Palin saying stuff.

(4) ?

(5) Profit.
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kepler said:
This.
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Well, the GOP answer to health care is "Don't get sick." so the GOP answer to the financial meltdown is "Don't be poor."

Follow those two pieces of advice and you're good to go!
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Rover said:
Reading about the whole financial reform effort, I have two questions here for our righty friends:

1) What exactly about the bill does your party find so objectionable, and
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Well, I haven't read the bill, or much about it really, so I don't know all that the GOP finds objectionable about it. I do recall reading yesterday that the bill was easily filibuster proof - Snowe, Collins, Brown, Grassley all in favor- until the Dems added taxes to it, which was a dealbreaker for Brown, and possibly the others as well. Also, it's not like it's just Republicans (okay, it's mainly Republicans:) ), I don't think Senator Feingold is too keen on the bill either, and I don't blame him. Look at the clown who was allowed to write it for cripes sake.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

WeWantMore said:
Look at the clown who was allowed to write it for cripes sake.
Click to expand...

No kidding.
clown.png
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Rover said:
Reading about the whole financial reform effort, I have two questions here for our righty friends:

1) What exactly about the bill does your party find so objectionable, and

2) What is the GOP plan for dealing with the financial meltdown? Not, 'this senator proposed this' or 'the Rep has this plan', but what does the GOP conference as a party endorse? Because from what I'm reading, I'm not sure I've seen any sort of consensus plan out of that side of the aisle.
Click to expand...

Unlike most people around here, I've actually been reading the various flavors, and have been offering suggestions to various lobbyists.

1. I'm not a partisan, but I'm really tickled by this mess. So much of the heavy lifting is thrown off to the different regulators that we can probably get the rules to eat the legislation over the next few years. This is an industry that thrives on working those grey areas. As a practical matter, consumer and small business credit will be tighter and more restrictive as smaller players are squeezed out. As a result, the bigger players will concentrate their market shares and price it accordingly. I am disappointed they did not include a national rate ceiling of 36% APR on consumer credit as Dick Durbin suggested some time ago, since those ceilings are basically a license to rape people at the top legal rate.

2. I like the plan to try to regulate various derivatives, but I'm pretty certain Wall Street will be more creative than the SEC, BCFP, CFTC, etc., since our "rules" based regulatory structure leaves a great deal of grey. That said, I really do wish they had figured out a way to dismantle "too big to flail", since nobody of consequence will be allowed to "fail".

It would be nice if Dodd, Frank et al. had the stones to actually tackle the GSEs, and the fact it may take a cool trillion dollars to actually resolve that mess. But hey, that's just another graveyard to whistle past ...
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Separate deposit-taking commercial banks backed by taxpayers from investment banks. End all proprietary trading at commercial banks. Allow them only to act in an agent capacity when they fulfill customer orders. Never backstop private risk-taking investment banks, hedge funds or private equity shops. Break up all the too-big-to-fail banks, starting with Goldman Sachs. And if any product, derivative or otherwise, is allowed to be launched after extensive academic review, make them transparent, traded and cleared through adequately capitalized and monitored exchanges.
 
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