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Obama V: For Vendetta
- Thread starter Red Cloud
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Slap Shot
I got nothing
So the defense of your hypocrisy is his one, lone, shining moment? Genius.
The next time I sing the praises of Obama come talk to me. Until then...
btw - I'm surprised by this from you given you've seemingly been pretty fair about not jumping in to mindlessly defend him.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta
I don't remember you coming to W's defense when folks made fun of his gaffs?
I don't remember you coming to W's defense when folks made fun of his gaffs?
Slap Shot
I got nothing
dropthatpuck
In Vino Veritas
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta
No time to read slappy's tripe, but is he defending terrorists again? Even if indirectly?
No time to read slappy's tripe, but is he defending terrorists again? Even if indirectly?
French Rage
NICKERSON HAS [CENSORED]
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta
GM retires the logo
Remember when rooting for the Yankees was like rooting for GM? Now the Washington Post wonders if rooting for the Nationals is like rooting for GM.
GM retires the logo
Remember when rooting for the Yankees was like rooting for GM? Now the Washington Post wonders if rooting for the Nationals is like rooting for GM.
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta
I'm no fan of Bush on fiscal issues, but that is unfunded liabilities. Obama has run that up to $54 Trillion now.
For the yearly defecit, which is what I was referring to, Bush's highest one was $450 Billion. If you allow for the bad economy and doublt that you are still only at half of what we have this year and nowhere near what is projected for the next ten years.
If ten years isn't enough time, at what point does Obama have to own the economy?
It works for me...
Quote from the Comptroller General of the US and head of the GAO from 12/07:
So Bush ran us $32 trillion into the hole, and that was before the recession even started. Compared to that, $9 trillion over 10 years in the midst of a recession is...
... well, it's insanely horrible, of course. But I'm not sure what we could have expected after feces-throwing monkeys ran the country for 6 years.
I'm no fan of Bush on fiscal issues, but that is unfunded liabilities. Obama has run that up to $54 Trillion now.
For the yearly defecit, which is what I was referring to, Bush's highest one was $450 Billion. If you allow for the bad economy and doublt that you are still only at half of what we have this year and nowhere near what is projected for the next ten years.
If ten years isn't enough time, at what point does Obama have to own the economy?
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta
I didn't say it then and I didn't say anything now. I'm pretty sure I've never mentioned Obama talking on or off of a teleprompter, but thanks for putting my name on someone else's quote
I didn't say it then and I didn't say anything now. I'm pretty sure I've never mentioned Obama talking on or off of a teleprompter, but thanks for putting my name on someone else's quote
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta
That's a fair criticism. It's very difficult if not impossible to untangle who really spends what -- how much of Dubya's $32T came from demographic effects (triggered by entitlements), how much from the wars, how much from sheer waste and incompetence, how much from tax breaks for pals, how much for that matter he inherited from his predecessors. And then obviously your mileage will vary depending on whether you think a given expenditure was vital, luxury, or ill-advised.
Of course the same can be said of the deficits that Obama faces. Goose/gander and all that.
That's a fair criticism. It's very difficult if not impossible to untangle who really spends what -- how much of Dubya's $32T came from demographic effects (triggered by entitlements), how much from the wars, how much from sheer waste and incompetence, how much from tax breaks for pals, how much for that matter he inherited from his predecessors. And then obviously your mileage will vary depending on whether you think a given expenditure was vital, luxury, or ill-advised.
Of course the same can be said of the deficits that Obama faces. Goose/gander and all that.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta
That's not what I was saying. AFAIC, the president owns everything the day he takes office. I never understood, for instance, why 9/11 was somehow the responsibility of anybody other than Dubya.
Some (Bush Sr., Dubya) are dealt a great hand, some (Reagan, Obama) are dealt a terrible one, and after the dust settles we'll judge based on where he took the country from there. "Wins Above Replacement," in sabermetric terms. Obviously somebody who has to clean up the mess after years of mismanagement will turn in losing records, while someone who inherits a well-managed ship and gradually sinks it will still turn in some winning records, at least in the beginning, but history will judge the latter more harshly, whatever the winning percentage.
But at the end of the day, the point is improvement. You don't get the reward of draft picks in politics -- John Taveras is not walking through that door -- so if Obama hasn't turned things around by the end of his first term he will rightly not get another. It's worth remembering that 18 months into Reagan's first term he looked like the biggest failure since Hoover.
As of today, granted from a partisan view, the free-fall of the last 2 years seems to have been arrested. The talk now is about how to coordinate the withdrawal of stimulus to avoid a currency crisis rather than how to pour money into the system -- that is an economic improvement. Some of the indicators (unemployment, housing starts) seems to have stabilized. We'll see -- the midterms are scheduled pretty fortuitously for delivering a first draft appraisal of how well the Dems are doing.
That's not what I was saying. AFAIC, the president owns everything the day he takes office. I never understood, for instance, why 9/11 was somehow the responsibility of anybody other than Dubya.
Some (Bush Sr., Dubya) are dealt a great hand, some (Reagan, Obama) are dealt a terrible one, and after the dust settles we'll judge based on where he took the country from there. "Wins Above Replacement," in sabermetric terms. Obviously somebody who has to clean up the mess after years of mismanagement will turn in losing records, while someone who inherits a well-managed ship and gradually sinks it will still turn in some winning records, at least in the beginning, but history will judge the latter more harshly, whatever the winning percentage.
But at the end of the day, the point is improvement. You don't get the reward of draft picks in politics -- John Taveras is not walking through that door -- so if Obama hasn't turned things around by the end of his first term he will rightly not get another. It's worth remembering that 18 months into Reagan's first term he looked like the biggest failure since Hoover.
As of today, granted from a partisan view, the free-fall of the last 2 years seems to have been arrested. The talk now is about how to coordinate the withdrawal of stimulus to avoid a currency crisis rather than how to pour money into the system -- that is an economic improvement. Some of the indicators (unemployment, housing starts) seems to have stabilized. We'll see -- the midterms are scheduled pretty fortuitously for delivering a first draft appraisal of how well the Dems are doing.
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta
Does the 9 trillion projected Obama deficit over 10 years include unfunded entitlements? Probably not. Does the 32 trillion attributed to Bush consist mainly of entitlements? Surely.
Does the 9 trillion projected Obama deficit over 10 years include unfunded entitlements? Probably not. Does the 32 trillion attributed to Bush consist mainly of entitlements? Surely.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta
Not sure why that happened, but it's fixed.
I didn't say it then and I didn't say anything now. I'm pretty sure I've never mentioned Obama talking on or off of a teleprompter, but thanks for putting my name on someone else's quote
Not sure why that happened, but it's fixed.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta
You can't have it both ways. If you're going to give Bush a break by not counting inherited policies and entitlement growth and downsized revenue caused by the recession, then that pretty much zeroes out Obama's $9T.
This also leaves aside the question of whose policies led to the recession in the first place. Wild West Wall Street was contributed to by both parties, who are after all in the pockets of big finance, but it's clear which party thumped the tub for untrammeled "free markets" (read: let capital concentrate in as large a hairball as it wants and don't worry about clogging up the drain) for 25 years.
You can't have it both ways. If you're going to give Bush a break by not counting inherited policies and entitlement growth and downsized revenue caused by the recession, then that pretty much zeroes out Obama's $9T.
This also leaves aside the question of whose policies led to the recession in the first place. Wild West Wall Street was contributed to by both parties, who are after all in the pockets of big finance, but it's clear which party thumped the tub for untrammeled "free markets" (read: let capital concentrate in as large a hairball as it wants and don't worry about clogging up the drain) for 25 years.
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walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
French Rage
NICKERSON HAS [CENSORED]
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