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Obama V: For Vendetta

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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Bill said:
Can't agree with you there. The town hallers (other than maybe the small fringe element) aren't asking the government to get totally out of their lives, even in terms of health care. But they are at the point where they see the government becoming much too involved, and they've had enough. If the health care bill were to be implemented the way Obama and most of the Dems want to see things, we would have the government totally taking over health care/insurance. That's what the town hallers don't want to see. The leaders on the left are paving the road to Socialism. Between both parties, it's no wonder the country is going down the tubes.
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Bill, I just want to be clear that no one gave you permission to make sense using calm and rational logic. What the smeg are you thinking? :D

Besides, you're supposed to refer to them as "those teabagging teabaggers."

How come we can say teabagging but we can't call someone a *********?
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Red Cloud said:
Bill, I just want to be clear that no one gave you permission to make sense using calm and rational logic. What the smeg are you thinking? :D

Besides, you're supposed to refer to them as "those teabagging teabaggers."

How come we can say teabagging but we can't call someone a *********?
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Socialism rhetoric is calm and rational?

Sure it is. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Kepler said:
In fifty years everyone will look at today's hard right the way we today look at the southern Democrats of the 1950's: intolerant, paranoid, violent freakazoids.
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Without knowing who you include in "we", do you really think this is how most Americans, the media, or even history looks at Southern Democrats of that era?

I would guess people, the media and history look back on those politicians with little more than bemusement at a group "stuck in their ways" and unwilling or unable to see the tide of popular sentiment working against them. Won't surprise me if the Republicans of the first decade of this century are similary viewed 50 years from now.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Jon said:
According to George Carlin, the clowns are honestly the best we can do. It's depressing.
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"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. ***** Hope.'"

"I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote -- who did not even leave the house on Election Day -- am in no way responsible for that these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created."

:D
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Bill said:
The leaders on the left are paving the road to Socialism.
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Bill, this is (okay, IMHO) simply an absurd statement. Obama is as in bed with Wall Street as Cheney, er, Bush was. In the age old antipathy between Haves and Have Nots, it's not at all clear that Obama is any more on the side of the Have Nots as the more overt plutocrats of the right.

Obama ran a liberal campaign, the people voted for it. The electorate tried trickle down for 28 years -- that's as fair a trial as you're ever going to get -- and now they've rejected it. This is not some Trojan Horse or a vanguard movement. If anything, Obama is lagging behind the people who voted for him in rolling back the entrenched policies of the last generation.

This is not an elite movement, it's the country itself changing direction. Attacking Obama as some sort of alien invader is not facing up to the reality that the conservatives lost the trust of the moderates.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Kepler said:
This is not an elite movement, it's the country itself changing direction. .
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It is an elite movement and has been an elite movement for many years. Theirs no change going on.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Bill said:
The leaders on the left are paving the road to Socialism.
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I used to think/say this all the time back in my high school years. I still hear it all the time today from conservatives. Truth is, I think a lot of the 'road' was already paved during the Great Depression and America's rise to superpower status. Yet somehow, in spite of straddling the grey area between rabid captialism and complete socalism, we've managed to sustain considerable economic growth in the decades since (even after riding out the late 70s/early 80s).

So really, America already leans socialist in many ways, and the mixed economy seems to have mostly worked out for us. Recovery from the current quagmire will take several years and a lot of work, but it can be done.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

SPIN CONTROL said:
"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. ***** Hope.'"

"I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote -- who did not even leave the house on Election Day -- am in no way responsible for that these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created."



:D
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Good job outta you.
That's George Carlin and Bill Hicks in the span of two days. Dare I quote Bob Newhart?
 
Red Cloud said:
National defense? I see that in there.
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Iraq has never been about national defense and I'd argue it's made it worse, (i.e.) created more terrorists and diverted funds from Afghanistan. At least Hussein was contained.

geezer said:
Remember the election (not that it's stopped since). Most of the mass media had lib columnists claiming that racism was playing a major role in the polls/voting...
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They did?

Red Cloud said:
A democratic Muslim nation for an ally in a region of the world where we desperately need them? Nah.
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How'd that work in Iran? How's it working right now in Pakistan, where the majority of the people don't want us there and the government thumbs its nose at us by not allowing us to get in there and beat the **** out of Al Qaeda?

I hope like hell that Iraq turns out to be what's envisioned but not only is it too early to say what way it will turn but how long it's going to be before we will find out.
 
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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Kepler said:
Bill, this is (okay, IMHO) simply an absurd statement. Obama is as in bed with Wall Street as Cheney, er, Bush was. In the age old antipathy between Haves and Have Nots, it's not at all clear that Obama is any more on the side of the Have Nots as the more overt plutocrats of the right.

Obama ran a liberal campaign, the people voted for it. The electorate tried trickle down for 28 years -- that's as fair a trial as you're ever going to get -- and now they've rejected it. This is not some Trojan Horse or a vanguard movement. If anything, Obama is lagging behind the people who voted for him in rolling back the entrenched policies of the last generation.

This is not an elite movement, it's the country itself changing direction. Attacking Obama as some sort of alien invader is not facing up to the reality that the conservatives lost the trust of the moderates.
Click to expand...

Obama and the Dem leaders want universal health care that has a single payer government option. It remains to be seen whether they will achieve that once a bill is signed, but that's what they are after. Obama is also on record as saying he wanted to get rid of private health insurance companies. If you don't think any of this is paving the road to Socialism, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Bill said:
Obama and the Dem leaders want universal health care that has a single payer government option. It remains to be seen whether they will achieve that once a bill is signed, but that's what they are after. Obama is also on record as saying he wanted to get rid of private health insurance companies. If you don't think any of this is paving the road to Socialism, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but every other democracy on Earth has universal health care coverage.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Slap Shot said:
Iraq has never been about national defense and I'd argue it's made it worse, (i.e.) created more terrorists and diverted funds from Afghanistan. At least Hussein was contained.
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Opinion. Bottom line is, Iraq was at least a decision made by the federal government that was SUPPOSED to be made by the federal government. Whether you think it was a matter of national defense or not, that was certainly what the rationale was.

How'd that work in Iran? How's it working right now in Pakistan, where the majority of the people don't want us there and the government thumbs its nose at us by not allowing us to get in there and beat the **** out of Al Qaeda?
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Neither are true democracies, especially Iran. Iran is actually a good example of what happens when we DON'T do something about brutal dictators (or even worse, support them). Bing!
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Bill said:
If you don't think any of this is paving the road to Socialism, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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"Paving the road"? What do you call welfare, social security, unemployment, subsidized student loans and grants, medicare, ag subsidies, etc.? To say nothing of the incentives the feds provide private industry, such as lending incentives, R&D grants, etc. "Socialism" of whatever stripe has been alive and well in this country for a century or more. And everyone has benefitted at some level, or will, even those rugged individualists trudging through the streets of DC last weekend in their Tricorn hats and Southern Crosses ...
 
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