Norwich 14-15

[joecct]

Re: Norwich 14-15

More telling than their (Oswego's) 48% acceptance rate, is their average SAT composite for admitted freshman is 1110 out of 1600, whereas Norwich's is only 1055 out of 1600.

It is prudent to note that the reason is that Norwich looses out on potential applicants who find $45,895 less enticing than $20,591/$30,041.

Plus if you're an out of state US resident, you get free room (and board?) for every year you live in the Oswego dorms.

 

[Ozz]

Re: Norwich 14-15

I find it surprising Oswego only has a 48% acceptance rate, i didn't know how selective they are till now.

As a former member of the Admissions Staff there, staying below that 50% mark was certainly of importance to maintain that selective profile. While not up to Geneseo's standards, Oswego is certainly not easily accessible. A great academic profile isn't necessarily made by who you accept, but more so by who you don't accept.

 

[NU Pastime]

Re: Norwich 14-15

Being primarily a military school, Norwich has some major enrollment considerations that most schools don't deal with. For example, I enrolled in Norwich in 2009, which was shortly after the surge in Iraq and just before Obama announced a similar surge in Afghanistan. As a result, the DOD was passing out ROTC scholarships like candy. I believe my class had over 120 scholarship awardees in the Army department alone. By the time I graduated in 2013, after we had withdrawn from Iraq and at the beginning of the drawdown in Afghanistan, the number of scholarship winners in the freshman class had dropped to around 30 across all the branches.

This forces the school to have a lot of flexibility. Many of my classmates are some of the most impressive people I have ever met in my life. There were also those that had no business being there. But, when you have 120+ new students whose tuition payment is guaranteed in full by Uncle Sam, there are bound to be a few that fall through the cracks. There's still great interest from people wanting to join the Corps, which numbers close to 1500 now, but historically speaking the civilian component serves as sort of a safety against times when military service isn't as desired (enrollment dropped to 9, that is nine, after the Civil War for example. The post-Vietnam era certainly didn't make a military school, especially one in Vermont of all places, attractive to many people). I'm not saying that's its only merit, but it's certainly a factor. So as the military continues to make cuts, will we see an increase in competitiveness in Corps applications that require financial aid? Will preference be given to those who don't require as much aid? Will the school emphasize its traditional component more?

My apologies for the history lesson, but I've always found my beloved alma mater's unique history and role fascinating (well, except for when I was a rook and hated the place). Surely someone can tie this back into hockey.

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Norwich 14-15

Questions on the finer points of the game.

Scouting an Opponent: I understand the importance of measuring a goalie via save percentage, minutes played, and shut outs. And maybe it is the fairest way to gauge a player’s skill in that position. But I am also untrained with regards to what a coach looks at while considering an opponent’s defensive weaknesses at every level. Surely McShane must be doing that this week as he prepares our team for Babson.

I am asking, because clearly Jamie Murray had a great game Saturday (he faced 42 UMass shots versus 24 SOG by Babson). And while these playoff game stats (as do his cumulative season stats) say a great deal about Murray, don’t they also speak volumes about how little he was protected by the rest of Babson’s defense? I am not discounting when a goalie gets into “their zone”—as Murray seemed able to stand up against a barrage of UMass shots.

Its just that I took a look at the last ten games that Babson has played—and on average Murray has faced 26.5 shots per game. I ran the same exercise against the two Norwich goalies in the last ten games—and combined they only faced an average of 14.9 shots per game. Big difference. Meanwhile over that ten game stretch, both NU and Babson fired off an average of about 31 shots at their opponent’s goal.

Save percentages seem to be a great measurement tool—-if one is measuring a similar number of chances. That is why I ask. It just seems that if a “Goalie A” is facing an average of 25 SOG and turns away 98% of them—is he really doing better only because his defense weaker….while on the flip side; “Goalie B” with the same 98% save percentage but only facing a dozen shots per game is doing so simply because his defense is doing a better job breaking up plays, blocking shots, driving opponents into the corners, etc.

Yes, it all sounds all very chicken and egg, e.g. which comes first great defense or great goalies? Hopefully both I am sure. I do believe there are great goalies based on consistency over time by the usual stats. But I also wonder if great goalies are created by weak defensive. I am not sure there is an answer and whether getting in with some solid licks against a goalie comes with scouting and watching films of an opponent’s other defensemen like football coaches look for weak cornerbacks they can focus on to complete passes against.

Staying out of the Box: Doesn’t the amount of time a team spends in the box impacts results? UMass has always seemed more that willing to take penalties. This year within the ECAC-E they seem willing to give up almost of a quarter of its time on the ice time with penalties (13.35 minutes per game) versus NU which is just a tad above 8 minutes. However, NU is playing this weekend against the second most disciplined team in the ECAC-E: Babson (8.8 minutes in the box)…while UMass is home watching on TV thinking about the two PPG that Babson scored on them to win their quarterfinal game.

 

[NU Pastime]

Re: Norwich 14-15

Yes, it all sounds all very chicken and egg, e.g. which comes first great defense or great goalies? Hopefully both I am sure. I do believe there are great goalies based on consistency over time by the usual stats. But I also wonder if great goalies are created by weak defensive. I am not sure there is an answer and whether getting in with some solid licks against a goalie comes with scouting and watching films of an opponent’s other defensemen like football coaches look for weak cornerbacks they can focus on to complete passes against.

I was watching some of the coverage of Brodeur's latest retirement and they made an interesting point. They said that an often-argued criticism of Brodeur is that he played on some great New Jersey teams that limited scoring chances against him, thereby inflating his success. However, they said that such an argument depends on perspective and the goalie. On the flipside of that argument is the argument that it is often more difficult for a goalie when he is idle for stretches as it prevents him from getting in "their zone".

 

[norm1909]

Re: Norwich 14-15

Being primarily a military school, Norwich has some major enrollment considerations that most schools don't deal with. For example, I enrolled in Norwich in 2009, which was shortly after the surge in Iraq and just before Obama announced a similar surge in Afghanistan. As a result, the DOD was passing out ROTC scholarships like candy....

My apologies for the history lesson, but I've always found my beloved alma mater's unique history and role fascinating (well, except for when I was a rook and hated the place). Surely someone can tie this back into hockey.

No apologies needed for me -- Thank you for taking the time to offer your first hand experience and perspective

 

[EastCoastHockey]

Re: Norwich 14-15

Questions on the finer points of the game.

Scouting an Opponent: I understand the importance of measuring a goalie via save percentage, minutes played, and shut outs. And maybe it is the fairest way to gauge a player’s skill in that position. But I am also untrained with regards to what a coach looks at while considering an opponent’s defensive weaknesses at every level. Surely McShane must be doing that this week as he prepares our team for Babson.

I am asking, because clearly Jamie Murray had a great game Saturday (he faced 42 UMass shots versus 24 SOG by Babson). And while these playoff game stats (as do his cumulative season stats) say a great deal about Murray, don’t they also speak volumes about how little he was protected by the rest of Babson’s defense? I am not discounting when a goalie gets into “their zone”—as Murray seemed able to stand up against a barrage of UMass shots.

Its just that I took a look at the last ten games that Babson has played—and on average Murray has faced 26.5 shots per game. I ran the same exercise against the two Norwich goalies in the last ten games—and combined they only faced an average of 14.9 shots per game. Big difference. Meanwhile over that ten game stretch, both NU and Babson fired off an average of about 31 shots at their opponent’s goal.

Save percentages seem to be a great measurement tool—-if one is measuring a similar number of chances. That is why I ask. It just seems that if a “Goalie A” is facing an average of 25 SOG and turns away 98% of them—is he really doing better only because his defense weaker….while on the flip side; “Goalie B” with the same 98% save percentage but only facing a dozen shots per game is doing so simply because his defense is doing a better job breaking up plays, blocking shots, driving opponents into the corners, etc.

Yes, it all sounds all very chicken and egg, e.g. which comes first great defense or great goalies? Hopefully both I am sure. I do believe there are great goalies based on consistency over time by the usual stats. But I also wonder if great goalies are created by weak defensive. I am not sure there is an answer and whether getting in with some solid licks against a goalie comes with scouting and watching films of an opponent’s other defensemen like football coaches look for weak cornerbacks they can focus on to complete passes against.

Staying out of the Box: Doesn’t the amount of time a team spends in the box impacts results? UMass has always seemed more that willing to take penalties. This year within the ECAC-E they seem willing to give up almost of a quarter of its time on the ice time with penalties (13.35 minutes per game) versus NU which is just a tad above 8 minutes. However, NU is playing this weekend against the second most disciplined team in the ECAC-E: Babson (8.8 minutes in the box)…while UMass is home watching on TV thinking about the two PPG that Babson scored on them to win their quarterfinal game.

This is similar to a post earlier where someone said they thought UMass was the better team on Saturday and I don't really see where that is coming from. People tend to weigh SOG too heavily. Yes 42 seems like a lot in a box score but there is no way to qualify those like you see in the NHL with "scoring chances." Many of UMass' shots were from bad angles or from far away from the net. While 42 is a big number, saying Babson's team defense is weaker doesn't seem very accurate to me. A big part of the game is taking advantage of breakdowns and capitalizing on mistakes. Babson put pucks in the net when UMass made mistakes. Other than maybe one mini breakaway I can't really remember too many complete breakdowns that UMB didn't convert on. This seems like a team that is very content with giving up shots from the outside and bad angles when they know they have a goalie back there that will make those saves, and then make the big save when he needs to as well.

 

[Cadet Color Man]

Re: Norwich 14-15

Highlights from the exciting 2-1 win on Saturday are now live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnESL5syGTg&feature=youtu.be

 

[802Hockey]

Re: Norwich 14-15

Good win this weekend. Was a little confused at why the Castleton bench was so upset at the end of the game. I mean...I'm pretty sure they know the rules and since there was no Castleton player to get to the faceoff dot in their end before time expired there should have been no icing...which was the call. I was just a little surprised to see the refs even try to call it back and then the coach get so angry when there was no call. Good effort by Castleton, Great way to hold them off by Norwich.

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Norwich 14-15

So the question I posed earlier remains unanswered.... visa vi the chicken and egg, e.g. which comes first great defense or great goalies?

Because as I said originally.... while I do believe that strategically.... great goalies emerge based on a season's consistency measured by the usual stats...... but I still wonder if on a more tactical...week to week level...if great goalies are a product of a weak defensive. Which then begs the question of whether getting more shots on an opponent's goalie comes with scouting and watching films of an opponent’s other defensemen just as football coaches look for weak cornerbacks they can focus on to complete passes against?

 

[joecct]

Re: Norwich 14-15

So the question I posed earlier remains unanswered.... visa vi the chicken and egg, e.g. which comes first great defense or great goalies?

Because as I said originally.... while I do believe that strategically.... great goalies emerge based on a season's consistency measured by the usual stats...... but I still wonder if on a more tactical...week to week level...if great goalies are a product of a weak defensive. Which then begs the question of whether getting more shots on an opponent's goalie comes with scouting and watching films of an opponent’s other defensemen just as football coaches look for weak cornerbacks they can focus on to complete passes against?

If D and G are both true, the goalie gets no credit because it's the system
If just D, then you better have good forwards. Goalie gets blamed for all L's and W's are despite the goalie.
If just G, then you better have better forwards. Goalie gets no credit as some forward puts up 4 points in the 6-4 win.

 

[NU Pastime]

Re: Norwich 14-15

If D and G are both true, the goalie gets no credit because it's the system
If just D, then you better have good forwards. Goalie gets blamed for all L's and W's are despite the goalie.
If just G, then you better have better forwards. Goalie gets no credit as some forward puts up 4 points in the 6-4 win.

I don't think any of these fit Babson. Murray is widely recognized as a pivotal reason for their success in recent years.

I also don't think any system, goalie before defense or vice versa, is true all the time. I'm sure you could find examples of both. Sometimes you have a good goalie and a good defense, as I think is true of Norwich. In Babson's case, I wouldn't say that Murray is the product of a poor defense as much as I would say that Babson is successful because of Murray. It'll be interesting to see they go after him.

 

[joecct]

I don't think any of these fit Babson. Murray is widely recognized as a pivotal reason for their success in recent years.

I also don't think any system, goalie before defense or vice versa, is true all the time. I'm sure you could find examples of both. Sometimes you have a good goalie and a good defense, as I think is true of Norwich. In Babson's case, I wouldn't say that Murray is the product of a poor defense as much as I would say that Babson is successful because of Murray. It'll be interesting to see they go after him.

Babson got exposed in last year's QF vs Oswego. Unless they got quicker, a fast team will leave them behind.

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Babson got exposed in last year's QF vs Oswego. Unless they got quicker, a fast team will leave them behind.

Ttrue, joe - they were slow and methodical last yr...this is why I love tournament time, warts, smoke and all - you get to see them play in ice rather then paper!

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Norwich 14-15

Many thanks--all these responses make sense. Never intended to smack Murray's talent around. He reminds me of B.J. O'Brien from SNC who faced 72 Norwich shots through a double overtime only to lose by a goal in the 2009-10 NCAAA DIII Championship game. Both great goalies -but even in that NCAA final game the NU goalie faced but 34 shots in the same 100 minutes of play.

Note also that this season St. Norbert's lost it great goal tender--David Jacobson who had a career 75-11-6 record with the Green Knights, including a 12-2-1 mark this year with a 1.59 GAA and a .924 save percentage before going down for the season. And I guess what keeps them in the hunt this late in the season for the NCHA title (to be decided this weekend).... has been great defense supporting Jacobson's replacement.

Goal tending skills aside for a moment, I guess there is no real answer other than surely SOG (regardless of their quality) is a product of a teams skilled attack combined with their finding defensive weakness.Thanks again.

 

[Tuuk145]

Re: Norwich 14-15

Prez, PuckVoice, et al.,

Any word on ticket availability for Saturday's game? I'll be making the drive north but certainly don't want to get turned away at the door. Sitting at The Rustic with a set of headphones on isn't a good look on a Saturday night.

Looking forward to another match-up, albeit hopefully less nail-biting than the Beaver's last trip to Kreitzberg.

 

[pete99race]

Re: Norwich 14-15

Many thanks--all these responses make sense. Never intended to smack Murray's talent around. He reminds me of B.J. O'Brien from SNC who faced 72 Norwich shots through a double overtime only to lose by a goal in the 2009-10 NCAAA DIII Championship game. Both great goalies -but even in that NCAA final game the NU goalie faced but 34 shots in the same 100 minutes of play.

Note also that this season St. Norbert's lost it great goal tender--David Jacobson who had a career 75-11-6 record with the Green Knights, including a 12-2-1 mark this year with a 1.59 GAA and a .924 save percentage before going down for the season. And I guess what keeps them in the hunt this late in the season for the NCHA title (to be decided this weekend).... has been great defense supporting Jacobson's replacement.

The SNC D has picked it up in recent weeks, after Jake went down/ allowing just one goal in last four games....And Kujava has looked more comfortable in net...make several quality saves vs MSOE...Back to Adrian this Sat..

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Prez, PuckVoice, et al.,

Any word on ticket availability for Saturday's game? I'll be making the drive north but certainly don't want to get turned away at the door. Sitting at The Rustic with a set of headphones on isn't a good look on a Saturday night.

Looking forward to another match-up, albeit hopefully less nail-biting than the Beaver's last trip to Kreitzberg.

Season ticket holders have until today to get their seats. Tomorrow what's left will be opened up to the public. You can buy standing room
Tickets now.

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Norwich 14-15

The SNC D has picked it up in recent weeks, after Jake went down/ allowing just one goal in last four games....And Kujava has looked more comfortable in net...make several quality saves vs MSOE...Back to Adrian this Sat..

Thanks...I have looked at Kujava's numbers and he is doing well. In his first outing against Adrian he faced 32 shots but in the six games that followed opponents have only gotten an average of 16 SOG. The SNC defense is doing its job and he has settled down and is responding. Clearly he had big skates to fill.

Not sure how strong the opponents were--as I don't follow that conference. But this weekend is a test with Adrian. SNC has played our Cadets well--and I have watched them a few time. A quality, well coached program--and I do hope they take their conference title. Good luck SNC.

 

[peddler]

Re: Norwich 14-15

I'm not sure which has surprised me more this year - that Jamie Murray turned out to be mortal after all, or that the Cadets have not one, but two excellent goaltenders, both early in their college career.