Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

[MattS]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Wow. Considering there were reports of bottles, rocks, and molotovs being thrown at police...

I, and Brent, were talking about the edginess of the situation not the actual rioting (which I am not condoning). Way to follow the thread.

And then you finish it up with that last line, yeah, everything the witnesses say is gospel but the police don't get the time of day.

I'm going to guess you would be more than willing to believe everything the witnesses have to say if it was a white person saying a black person was committing a crime. But hey, of course they are lying just look at them. Or do you only believe witnesses when it suits your own beliefs about a situation?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I, and Brent, were talking about the edginess of the situation not the actual rioting (which I am not condoning). Way to follow the thread.



I'm going to guess you would be more than willing to believe everything the witnesses have to say if it was a white person saying a black person was committing a crime. But hey, of course they are lying just look at them. Or do you only believe witnesses when it suits your own beliefs about a situation?

Why are you racist?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

The Governor of Missouri is en route to St. Louis to relieve the St Louis County police chief of his responsibilities in this case. No word yet on whether the National Guard, state police or FBI would be taking over.

 

[unofan]

Wow. Considering there were reports of bottles, rocks, and molotovs being thrown at police...

And then you finish it up with that last line, yeah, everything the witnesses say is gospel but the police don't get the time of day.

The police don't get the time of day because they're saying jack shiat. They're circling the wagons at this point. While I understand them not wanting to release the officer's name for safety reasons, that never stops them from releasing the names of people arrested for heinous crimes that cause them to get death threats. The cop will at least have 24 hour protection from his brethren, which is more than most people get.

The county/city attorney is being an idiot from a pr perspective. Yeah he's worried about the inevitable civil suit from the family and maybe even potential criminal charges against the officer, but holding the blue line on this case is a recipe for disaster. The longer the silence lasts, the worse it looks.

 

[Priceless]

The police don't get the time of day because they're saying jack shiat. They're circling the wagons at this point. While I understand them not wanting to release the officer's name for safety reasons, that never stops them from releasing the names of people arrested for heinous crimes that cause them to get death threats. The cop will at least have 24 hour protection from his brethren, which is more than most people get.

The county/city attorney is being an idiot from a pr perspective. Yeah he's worried about the inevitable civil suit from the family and maybe even potential criminal charges against the officer, but holding the blue line on this case is a recipe for disaster. The longer the silence lasts, the worse it looks.

The names of the nine people arrested (yeah, nine, hardly a mob) and charged with a felony are already public.

https://medium.com/the-nib/officer-friendly-28e8d9399bbb

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

From earlier in the thread, questions about conceal-carry laws. When they're passed, very few people actually make the effort to get a permit, as a percentage of the total population. The benefit of the conceal-carry law is that it still makes potential criminals be more thoughtful that anybody you come across could be able to retaliate with deadly force, and therefore the criminal is less likely to commit violent crimes. Studies have shown a substitution effect of property crimes after these laws go into effect, though, meaning that there's a drop in violent crime rates, but property crimes tend to rise. Open carry laws do not generate the same effects on crime as it's now possible to see who's carrying and who is not. Economists who focus on crime and punishment have been following these numbers for a long while (almost 30 years), since states started to adopt the conceal-carry laws.

As to the First Amendment concern, don't most municipalities have in place a set of laws that state how you go about getting a permit to protest? I understand that these have been strictly impromptu and not planned, but if the police wanted to make arrests, to go all-in, they could rest upon these sorts of laws, making themselves immune from legal issues, though get themselves into even more trouble on the PR front.

It's funny, with the arming of police agencies over the past few years, Bill Maher and John Stossel have both been commenting on the trend lately, including the no-knock warrants and the deaths coming from them. While the vast majority of police departments where protests and riots are likely will be trained to handle these large crowds, I do find myself becoming warier and warier of the frequency in which SWAT teams are being called in to execute warrants and the less and less violent crimes for which these no-knock warrants are being issued.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Obama will make a statement at 12:15 today.

 

[cF[Authentic]]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

It's funny, with the arming of police agencies over the past few years, Bill Maher and John Stossel have both been commenting on the trend lately, including the no-knock warrants and the deaths coming from them. While the vast majority of police departments where protests and riots are likely will be trained to handle these large crowds, I do find myself becoming warier and warier of the frequency in which SWAT teams are being called in to execute warrants and the less and less violent crimes for which these no-knock warrants are being issued.

When I was a reporter a handful of years ago, I was able to be inside a SWAT training house as they entered and cleared the rooms. Even knowing it was an exercise, it still was jarring with so much going on at once throughout the house. I interviewed the commanding officer after the training session and he explained that while there is a plan in place, a lot of times that plan can, and does, go out the window when the officers are confronted with a variety of obstacles. He said even some of his best, most trained officers can still make a mistake, especially in a high-stress situation where you literally may have milliseconds to make a decision and act.

 

[cF[Authentic]]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Obama will make a statement at 12:15 today.

"You know, when Michael Brown was first shot I said that this could have been my son."

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

If there is anything I have taken from all this, it's that it's shined a new light on the police department here. A couple years ago APD had an officer shoot and kill a person. There were protests and anger when the officer was cleared pretty quickly but APD released dashcam footage to the public to show that the guy was trying to run over the officer with his truck. After that, things quieted down PDQ.

I think things might be going differently if they'd actually had dashcams at this police department. How the * they don't have them in this day and age is beyond me...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

The police don't get the time of day because they're saying jack shiat. They're circling the wagons at this point. While I understand them not wanting to release the officer's name for safety reasons, that never stops them from releasing the names of people arrested for heinous crimes that cause them to get death threats. The cop will at least have 24 hour protection from his brethren, which is more than most people get.

The county/city attorney is being an idiot from a pr perspective. Yeah he's worried about the inevitable civil suit from the family and maybe even potential criminal charges against the officer, but holding the blue line on this case is a recipe for disaster. The longer the silence lasts, the worse it looks.

I don't disagree.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

If there is anything I have taken from all this, it's that it's shined a new light on the police department here. A couple years ago APD had an officer shoot and kill a person. There were protests and anger when the officer was cleared pretty quickly but APD released dashcam footage to the public to show that the guy was trying to run over the officer with his truck. After that, things quieted down PDQ.

I think things might be going differently if they'd actually had dashcams at this police department. How the * they don't have them in this day and age is beyond me...

I honestly didn't know that there were police departments without them still. I figured they were required by law by now.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I honestly didn't know that there were police departments without them still. I figured they were required by law by now.

This will change "overnight" after this fiasco. And if it doesn't, there are going to be a lot of questions asked the next time this happens.

 

[MattS]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

This will change "overnight" after this fiasco. And if it doesn't, there are going to be a lot of questions asked the next time this happens.

Absolutely. And I am thinking that the politicians that oversee $$ for police departments will decide cameras are cheaper than potential lawsuits and PR disasters.

 

[Priceless]

I honestly didn't know that there were police departments without them still. I figured they were required by law by now.

For a town like Ferguson, it would cost as extra $70K. The Ferguson Police Department budget for miscellaneous expenses was #372,500 in FY13. That includes $140K for Communication, $61K for uniforms and other "wearables" and $50K for licensing and service fees.

For a city like New York you're looking at $25M easily. You going to pony up the cash?

If you want to make money off this, invest in security stocks...

 

[MattS]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

For a town like Ferguson, it would cost as extra $70K.

That's going to seem cheap by the time the civil lawsuits are done.

Maybe they could save some money by cut back on the rubber bullets, tear gas, and tatical vehicles and purchase some cameras. Just a thought.

I wonder how much the overtime being paid out to all the officers is costing????

 

[Priceless]

I wonder how much the overtime being paid out to all the officers is costing????

I don't know how much it is costing, but they are only budgeted for $130K for the entire year. I think the're going to be over budget on that item...

Also, check out this post from HuffPo to see random acts of kindness in Ferguson: http://t.co/642jmf6YIC

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

That's going to seem cheap by the time the civil lawsuits are done.

Maybe they could save some money by cut back on the rubber bullets, tear gas, and tatical vehicles and purchase some cameras. Just a thought.

I wonder how much the overtime being paid out to all the officers is costing????

I didn't even think about these costs. Excellent points.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Also, check out this post from HuffPo to see random acts of kindness in Ferguson: http://t.co/642jmf6YIC

Thanks for posting this

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Are cops on administrative leave as potentiality dangerous to the public as a suspected felon? Comparing the two is illogical.