New Poll Predictions for 11/30

[norm1909]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

...
For the record, I think Plattsburgh may be the better team, however to this point in the season, they have not yet earned the nod over Oswego

I certainly have not argued against this statement, TIED is not "OVER".

... Oswego has a better record than Plattsburgh...

True, Oswego's .889-win percentage is better than Plattsburgh's .833, but factor in quality of opponents, and ---- you end up tied.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

As an Oswego fan, it does pain to say that Platty did outplay Oswego for the majority of that game. the first period was pretty even. Only difference was that KGT made the saves whereas Oswego found a way to get it past Leis. The second period was complete domination by the Cardinals. I felt like I was watching a DI team against a DIII team for a while. The game completely changed with less than a second left in the period when Oswego got the GWG. If that goal doesn't go in, it could have easily been 5-2 Platty. That goal made both teams forget about how dominant Platty was that period. It also forced Platty to pinch their D-men in the 3rd period, which allowed Platty to control much of the play in the 3rd, but also cost them the 4th Oswego goal in the 2 on 1 (which was a pretty pass too).

Hockey is an odd sport in that a team can control much of the game and still come out on the wrong end of it. During the infamous 1-9-1 streak, there have been games that Oswego has outplayed Platty and stlll lost. It happens!

Rather than arguing about th #1 ranking in the poll, we should be celebrating the fact that 2 SUNYAC teams are on top, regardless of order. Let's hope each win out unil their meeting at Campus Center!

THANK YOU!!!! SOMEONE WITHOUT GREEN AND GOLD GLASSES!!!! TOTALLY AGREE 110%!!!

Now, goals aside who was the better team on the ice???

 

[Ozz]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

THANK YOU!!!! SOMEONE WITHOUT GREEN AND GOLD GLASSES!!!! TOTALLY AGREE 110%!!!

Now, goals aside who was the better team on the ice???

Well... Platty controlled much of the game and was the faster team. Offensively you can argue that Platty was definitely the better team. Defensively, Emery said it all when he said his D let down Leis.

So I guess if you asked who the better team was, offensively it was Platty, defensively it was Oswego, and goalie I give the slight edge to KGT over Leis. I don't think Leis played as bad as everyone thinks, just poor D in font of him.

 

[joecct]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

Oh be QUIET!!!

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

I think it was kind of unfair to judge Lies when Oswego only mustard a little more then 2 dozen shots on goal. They took some more shots, but the defense (mostly the forwards) blocked a good amount of shots. I remember a lot of the Plattsburgh fans booing Lies on the first two goals, when I don't think many goaltenders would have stopped them. A lot of people want to keep comparing these two to Hince, totally different goaltenders.

I can't say enough of KGT. You couldn't ask much more from a "backup" then what he did. A few of us talked coming into the game how big KGT would probably play. His parents rushed in from Buffalo (even had Plattsburgh fans get them tickets) It was a great win for KGT. I'm not sure where it would rank on his favorite games, but Id imagine pretty high.

I was just mostly shocked at the offense, and there the lack of, from Oswego as compared to what we've become accustom to seeing. Outside of the SUNYAC Tri Players of the Year....(sorry I don't think anyone else is deserving yet, as much as a good year Satim is having) there was a drop off. But comparing a team to those three is unfair to the rest of the team. I do think the freshman will grow and become very good. I've seen Oswego dominate Plattsburgh up and down the ice in many games over the 1-9-1 stint, it was more comforting to see Plattsburgh turn the page. Normally when I think of heading to the CC its intimidating knowing you are going to face such an offensive full out Laker team. The team I saw that night was anything far from intimidating. Just glad I already got my tickets for Jan!!

 

[93GreatLaker]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

True, Oswego's .889-win percentage is better than Plattsburgh's .833, but factor in quality of opponents, and ---- you end up tied.

Actually if you factor in the quality of opponents Oswego is ahead there as well. Oswego's opponents have a 45-35-4 record compared to the 36-34-1 record of Plattsburgh's opponents. Are we going to compare opponent's opponents next? I think that is the only NCAA selection criteria we have not yet addressed. So far Oswego has won or tied every other criteria (H2H, Winning %, Record vs common opponents, Opponents winning %, etc, etc). You're the stat guy, it looks pretty black and white to me.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

Oh be QUIET!!!

Part of the Webb gift basket? haha

 

[Stormy8174]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

Unfortunately the atmsophere will most likely be very lackluster with the 1000 students that attend each home game on break.

I'll bet at most 1500 people show up and most of them will be sitting on their hands unless Oswego scores.

will you be attending?

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

will you be attending?

Currently the goal. But I just landed a new job in Gloversville as a sports reporter which requires weekend work so I dont know if I'll be able to get away for a weekend so soon.

I desperately want to find a way to get to both the Oswego/Adrian and Elmira/Plattsburgh games.

 

[nysportsfan29]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

It was 11...and it was actually even heading into the third period, and yes I can actually say RIT was a better team than Plattsburgh, just as was UWS and Middlebury....if it wasn't for the play of Nik Sundberg. UWS outshot us 53-18. We were actually out shot in the NCAA's on average 23-42, we were the National Champions, not the best team in the NCAA's. Neumann was the National Champion last year, were they the best team all season long? Point is you can WIN a game with out being the best team on the ice. Never took that away from Oswego..if you actually want to go back you will see I said they took advantage of the few opportunities they had. I am sure every win Oswego has had they were the best team on the ice too Some of us can admit that....obviously you can not....

Wow...and like I've said...I never knew getting the W automatically meant you were the best team. Some of us can admit when we've been outplayed and beat a team that was better....(See the 2-0 win over Norwich a few years ago). I guess over the past 10 games prior that Oswego wasn't even close to Plattsburgh seeing how they never won a game...even the game they out shot Plattsburgh 40-20 but only managed a 5-5 tie......but if they were the better team they would have won....

Personally, I'll take a National Championship over being the better team in that game as I'm sure you and most everybody else would.

As for the prior 10 games, I don't remember the Lakers outplaying the Cardinals in any games at the CC. I'd be hard-pressed to argue the Lakers were better in the last two at Romney either (altho if the second bagel wasn't thrown, who knows what would have happened). Last year's SUNYAC final was a tremendous game that I thought both teams played great in, Plattsburgh just closed it out. Were there a couple of road games at the Stafford that Oswego outplayed the Cards over that span? Last March was the only time I've ever been.

And besides the Middlebury game you easily argue that both teams were pretty even if not giving the advantage to Oswego....

but in that Middlebury game I don't know who (besides maybe you green and gold colored glassed Oswego fans) could say that Oswego was the best team on the ice...maybe the team that scored the most goals, but for much of that game Middlebury pushed Oswego to the limits...Scott played an amazing game. But goaltending is ONE part of a team. And yes, I was pulling for Oswego...

Come on Remy, you know that Trevor Gilligan's goal from the near boards wasn't just him putting the puck on the net - it was a perfectly placed snipe. And what about Magana's goal from the goal line that hit all 3 posts? Surely that is all skill and no luck

 

[norm1909]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

... You're the stat guy, it looks pretty black and white to me.

Black & White? Can you really say ANY of Oswego's opponents - Buffalo State, Fredonia, Potsdam, and Cortland are anywhere near being on the same stage as Middlebury or Norwich (granted, Plattsburgh tied Norwich, but in Oswego’s best chance to make a statement, they split with Elmira – yes the same Elmira that lost to Morrisville). Black & White – look at the rankings – they are tied - for which given the significant rebuilding of BOTH teams, they should BOTH be happy, and be thanking their coaches/staff/legacy for.

 

[doncheery]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

I think it was kind of unfair to judge Lies when Oswego only mustard a little more then 2 dozen shots on goal.

First thing in the morning before coffee and you cracked me up. Thanks. Visions of 2 dozen hot dogs on goal.

 

[NUProf]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

As I read this discussion, I keep thinking the following

"isn't the object of the game to win by scoring more goals?"

I don't recall there being any clause about invalidating a win if you are "outplayed," "shorthanded," "lucky," or judged by a panel of judges to be not as good a team as the team that didn't score more goals. In terms of predicting the outcome of a future game, those things may be important, but the game is played on the ice and the winner is the one that scores the greater number of goals. Furthermore, a game is 60 minutes long (or 65 if it ends in a tie), and it doesn't matter if you are struggling at the end and dominating at the beginning or the other way around. The scoreboard is the only thing that matters.

 

[joeyc3402]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

Oh be QUIET!!!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to joecct again.

 

[Ozz]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

Black & White? Can you really say ANY of Oswego's opponents - Buffalo State, Fredonia, Potsdam, and Cortland are anywhere near being on the same stage as Middlebury or Norwich (granted, Plattsburgh tied Norwich, but in Oswego’s best chance to make a statement, they split with Elmira – yes the same Elmira that lost to Morrisville). Black & White – look at the rankings – they are tied - for which given the significant rebuilding of BOTH teams, they should BOTH be happy, and be thanking their coaches/staff/legacy for.

I think a case could be made that Oswego's wins against Elmira and Platty is more impressive than Platty's win and tie against Norwich and Middlebury...

 

[Ozz]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

I think it was kind of unfair to judge Lies when Oswego only mustard a little more then 2 dozen shots on goal. They took some more shots, but the defense (mostly the forwards) blocked a good amount of shots. I remember a lot of the Plattsburgh fans booing Lies on the first two goals, when I don't think many goaltenders would have stopped them. A lot of people want to keep comparing these two to Hince, totally different goaltenders.

I can't say enough of KGT. You couldn't ask much more from a "backup" then what he did. A few of us talked coming into the game how big KGT would probably play. His parents rushed in from Buffalo (even had Plattsburgh fans get them tickets) It was a great win for KGT. I'm not sure where it would rank on his favorite games, but Id imagine pretty high.

I was just mostly shocked at the offense, and there the lack of, from Oswego as compared to what we've become accustom to seeing. Outside of the SUNYAC Tri Players of the Year....(sorry I don't think anyone else is deserving yet, as much as a good year Satim is having) there was a drop off. But comparing a team to those three is unfair to the rest of the team. I do think the freshman will grow and become very good. I've seen Oswego dominate Plattsburgh up and down the ice in many games over the 1-9-1 stint, it was more comforting to see Plattsburgh turn the page. Normally when I think of heading to the CC its intimidating knowing you are going to face such an offensive full out Laker team. The team I saw that night was anything far from intimidating. Just glad I already got my tickets for Jan!!

Agreed... of the 6 or so games I've seen of Oswego this year, that was their worst offense performance. I think (and hope) we'll see a better performance out of them at the CC, whether or not that results in W or an L, we'll have to see.

As far as KGT goes, I was rootin for KGT to get the starting nod before the season started Look at his season at Buff State with little/no talent around him. He was the only goalie we had with a decent amount of college experience and a proven track record. I'll admit that Beckwith has looked impessive this season too though...

 

[spwood]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

As I read this discussion, I keep thinking the following

"isn't the object of the game to win by scoring more goals?"

Not when you are talking about the poll. By its very nature the poll is subjective, which brings in much more than just the scoreboard. Plattsburgh's loss to Oswego was in Leis' second collegiate game. That can be taken into account for the purposes of a poll. Taking three points in Vermont from Middlebury and Norwich, to me, does give Plattsburgh credibility towards that #1 ranking. However, it's November and that ranking doesn't mean squat to anyone other than us posters.

By the way, something Oswego and Plattsburgh fans should agree on: if you poll Ed Gosek and Bob Emery, I would bet neither one of them wants this bull's eye on their back this early in the season. If they had their choice, the other one could have the #1 ranking!

 

[93GreatLaker]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

Black & White? Can you really say ANY of Oswego's opponents - Buffalo State, Fredonia, Potsdam, and Cortland are anywhere near being on the same stage as Middlebury or Norwich (granted, Plattsburgh tied Norwich, but in Oswego’s best chance to make a statement, they split with Elmira – yes the same Elmira that lost to Morrisville). Black & White – look at the rankings – they are tied - for which given the significant rebuilding of BOTH teams, they should BOTH be happy, and be thanking their coaches/staff/legacy for.

I think we can agree that both Oswego and Plattsburgh have played 3 top tier opponents. In those games, Oswego is 2-1-0, with 13 goals for and 6 goals against. Plattsburgh is 1-1-1 with 6 goals for and 7 goals against. You mention that in Oswego's best chance to make a statement they split with Elmira, I counter in their best chance to make a statement they beat Plattsburgh, by 3 goals in their own barn. If that isn't clear enough for you than I guess nothing will be.

Once again, you have me thoroughly convinced up to this point in the season Plattsburgh is as deserving of their ranking as the Lakers, even though you have offered nothing but you have seen the game and Plattsburgh was just better, even though they lost, by 3, at home.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

I think we can agree that both Oswego and Plattsburgh have played 3 top tier opponents. In those games, Oswego is 2-1-0, with 13 goals for and 6 goals against. Plattsburgh is 1-1-1 with 6 goals for and 7 goals against. You mention that in Oswego's best chance to make a statement they split with Elmira, I counter in their best chance to make a statement they beat Plattsburgh, by 3 goals in their own barn. If that isn't clear enough for you than I guess nothing will be.

Once again, you have me thoroughly convinced up to this point in the season Plattsburgh is as deserving of their ranking as the Lakers, even though you have offered nothing but you have seen the game and Plattsburgh was just better, even though they lost, by 3, at home.

The jury is still out on Elmira for one thing...the whole ECAC West as a whole is in question this season.....I don't think you will see maybe 1 ECAC West team in the top 15 by seasons end, and that will be more based on reputation.

Second, once again all YOU have to support your claim is a score, that's it. Teams are not based JUST on a score, and you keep saying 3 as if Oswego dominated Plattsburgh all game long......And again I say....

Morrisville 2 AT Elmira 1 .....Morrisville should be ranked ahead of Elmira because they beat them. I know what happened the next night, but would you have lobbied to put the undefeated Ponies (at that time) over a .500 (at that time) Elmira team...by that score you would think Morrisville skated with Elmira all night long

 

[Derek Dunning]

Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/30

The jury is still out on Elmira for one thing...the whole ECAC West as a whole is in question this season.....I don't think you will see maybe 1 ECAC West team in the top 15 by seasons end, and that will be more based on reputation.

Second, once again all YOU have to support your claim is a score, that's it. Teams are not based JUST on a score, and you keep saying 3 as if Oswego dominated Plattsburgh all game long......And again I say....

Morrisville 2 AT Elmira 1 .....Morrisville should be ranked ahead of Elmira because they beat them. I know what happened the next night, but would you have lobbied to put the undefeated Ponies (at that time) over a .500 (at that time) Elmira team...by that score you would think Morrisville skated with Elmira all night long

I think you're downgrading Manhattanville and Elmira a bit here Remy.

Morrisville beat Elmira, Elmira beat Oswego, and Oswego beat Plattsburgh. See how that logic works? I believe it's called the transitive property? Morrisville > Plattsburgh.

Do I believe that? Not even close.

However, back to my initial point. There is no doubt the ECAC West is down so far this year but i wouldn't completely write off Hobart, Neumann, and Utica yet. I could see one of them having a chance at being ranked by season's end if they get the ship righted.

I think Manhattanville and Elmira are all but locks to still be ranked unless they really hit a slide. Elmira has been playing better hockey as of late and we'll see just how far they've come this weekend when they travel to Utica and Manhattanville.

Manhattanville looked mighty impressive until their slip-up this past weekend. Let's see how they rebound this weekend.

Elmira still gets to meet Plattsburgh in January at the Thunderdomes. That'll be another measuring stick weekend as well as the Pathfinder Bank Classic with another showdown rubber match game with Oswego.