MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

[HarleyMC]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

See I wasnt sure if you were going by % or actual totals, but I almost said Fairchild depending on the stat you used since he was the worst d-man on the team.

Almost?

#2 Jordan Schroeder....-17

2) Which offensive player regressed the most (in total points)?

On #2, Jordan Schroeder ran a close second and regressed -38% in total points even though he increased his SOG% by 25%. But he was surpassed by Ryan Flynn who regressed -49% in total points from the previous season and regressed -48% in SOG%.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I agree Minnesota has advantages over IN-State schools but you didn't specify that, so no I'm not kidding.

- Mariucci > all other college arenas except the REA. Other than that one, only the Kohl has a larger capacity - and that isn't a hockey-only facility.
- MN's contract with FSN trumps all other college hockey television contracts in terms of the audience reached + number of games. UND may be able to match at some point in the future, but they aren't there yet.
- Location, location, location - the U being in the heart of the twin cities metro trumps everybody in the WCHA except Denver as far as metro areas are concerned. Since most of the state's population lives down here, only SCSU and MSU-M can claim a similar proximity to most MN-born recruits.
- Tradition - only a handful of schools can match it: UND, UW, DU, Michigan, BU, and BC.
- Budget - IIRC, MN spends more money on its hockey program than any other school (and also generates the most profit). I think only UND and UW are in the same ballpark on this category.
- Recruiting - the U has the inside track on the bulk of the state's top talent simply due to name recognition. It's the flagship school of the state's higher education system, and a lot of kids grow up "wanting to wear the M".

These are the built-in advantages that Minnesota has. These are also the reasons why the program's down years are generally limited. Of course, the flipside to this is that fans have relatively little patience when the team struggles.

 

[The Rube]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

Agree with the commie.

I'm not saying that they are the school with the MOST built-in advantages, but they are in the top echelon of schools. And there are few, traditionally.

Edit: and you mentioned "in-state." That is why I mentioned the WCHA, the (arguably) best/toughest conference from top to bottom, and if you're a top school (traditionally), that is an advantage in the sport. No one cares if you are a powerhouse in the EZAC.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I would say that when you take everything into account, MN has the most advantages simply due to the combination of things working in their favor. Specifically:

UND - better arena, worse location, equal tradition, worse television coverage (though this is improving)
Denver - worse arena, better location, equal tradition, worse television coverage
UW - worse arena, equal tradition, no television coverage to speak of (I won't even comment on location for obvious reasons)

Those are the three closest teams to MN in all the categories I listed (sans budget in Denver's case). The Gophers hold an edge in the majority of the categories even against these elite programs (although once UND's tv coverage matches ours, the overall comparison will become a push).

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

The program has advantages. But it has disadvantages also (and I know this was mentioned)...specifically that you're constantly the target and expectations are extremely high. You'd like to think athlete's could overcome these...but that's just not always the way it works.

So in the end, if a couple of players are injured and others can't take it up a notch...its not a shocker that a team like MN could face a handful of medeocre seasons.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

#1 Lucia, Sacchetti and Larson (+11,8 & 6)

1) Who were the top three, most improved, offensive Gopher players in overall point production last season compared to 2008-09?

I didn't include Nick Larson because he only played 13 games in 2008-09.

Top Three:

1) Nico Sacchetti - improved on pt. total by 103%
2) Jake Hansen - improved on pt. total by 49%
3) Tony Lucia - improved on pt. total by 44%

Noteworthy is they also had the highest % increase in SOG for 2009-10: Hansen-77%, Sacchetti-71%, Lucia-46%

 

[Slap Shot]

Agree with the commie.

I don't because it's a missing the forrest for the trees point of view. The U has advantages to be sure, but the school doesn't exist in a vacuum and mnrouser was quite right in picking apart many of them. The fact is there are plenty of reasons for a kid to pick another school to play hockey - academics, location, playing time, amenities, current/returning players, coaching staff, etc. and while the U may be ahead in some, they won't compete in every one every time or they'd never lose a recruit.

This isn't a woe is me commentary, the U is in a fortuitious position with respect to many programs in the country, but there are 4 other Div I schools within the boarder now and there are going to be kids near those schools that want to stay home, UND and UW are right next door, there are better academic institutions in the East and South Bend, Michigan and MSU have great tradition and are in the backyard of the NDTP, and there are a handful of prorams with just as many if not more titles than the U.

That said there looks to be some very dynamic players headed here the next two years, and if Lucia returns to laying the hammer down on malcontents, and they can build unity and chemistry back to what it was, the program will be very good very soon. In the end arguing about whether or not they're more advantageous or not seems pointless.

 

[4four4]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I would say that when you take everything into account, MN has the most advantages simply due to the combination of things working in their favor. Specifically:

UND - better arena, worse location, equal tradition, worse television coverage (though this is improving)
Denver - worse arena, better location, equal tradition, worse television coverage
UW - worse arena, equal tradition, no television coverage to speak of (I won't even comment on location for obvious reasons)

Those are the three closest teams to MN in all the categories I listed (sans budget in Denver's case). The Gophers hold an edge in the majority of the categories even against these elite programs (although once UND's tv coverage matches ours, the overall comparison will become a push).

UND is slighty ahead in the arena column everything else I agree with.
Denver proper IMO is a pit people are only enamored with the mountains. Everything else I agree.
UW I agree with everything.

The Gophers television coverage reaches more homes between Grand Forks to Madision or from Duluth to Sioux Falls it is the best in the upper midwest. Arguably no other school in the country reaches as many states(5 that I know of off hand).

 

[Bakunin]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

The fact is there are plenty of reasons for a kid to pick another school to play hockey - academics, location, playing time, amenities, current/returning players, coaching staff, etc. and while the U may be ahead in some, they won't compete in every one every time or they'd never lose a recruit.

The point of saying MN has built-in advantages wasn't to say they never lose a recruiting battle or always get who they want - it was to call attention to the fact that MN has a distinct edge against most programs nationally when you look at all the major factors. Despite the program's recent struggles, we still have a coach that has won two national titles. The list of active coaches that have done that is a rather short one.

This isn't a woe is me commentary, the U is in a fortuitious position with respect to many programs in the country, but there are 4 other Div I schools within the boarder now and there are going to be kids near those schools that want to stay home, UND and UW are right next door, there are better academic institutions in the East and South Bend, Michigan and MSU have great tradition and are in the backyard of the NDTP, and there are a handful of prorams with just as many if not more titles than the U.

BC, BU, Michigan, UND, Denver, and Wisconsin - that's the group of teams on the same level as MN. In most recruiting battles, MN is only concerned with the last three - IIRC, there aren't too many cases where the Gophers are going head to head with Michigan or eastern schools for the same guys.

That said there looks to be some very dynamic players headed here the next two years, and if Lucia returns to laying the hammer down on malcontents, and they can build unity and chemistry back to what it was, the program will be very good very soon. In the end arguing about whether or not they're more advantageous or not seems pointless.

If it wasn't for pointless arguments, just what the **** would we be doing in the offseason on this board? It takes awhile for October to roll around, ya know.

 

[Handyman]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

Incorrect.

I actually meant to put Fischer because I did actually answer Fairchild Fischer was the worst D-man in my mind which is saying a lot because half the D-corp should have been playing for St. Thomas

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

The point of saying MN has built-in advantages wasn't to say they never lose a recruiting battle or always get who they want - it was to call attention to the fact that MN has a distinct edge against most programs nationally when you look at all the major factors.

And I repeat that recruiting doesn't exist in a bubble, and it's short-sighted to say that they have a distinct advantage when you look at all the major factors, because the fact is the more factors you evaluate the more likely it is another school will get just as serious a look from a recruit as MN. They have advantages of course and they can't be overlooked, but they're not nearly as strong as they were 20 years ago, and as more and more schools gain exposure those advantages become less and less automatic.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

And I repeat that recruiting doesn't exist in a bubble, and it's short-sighted to say that they have a distinct advantage when you look at all the major factors, because the fact is the more factors you evaluate the more likely it is another school will get just as serious a look from a recruit as MN. They have advantages of course and they can't be overlooked, but they're not nearly as strong as they were 20 years ago, and as more and more schools gain exposure those advantages become less and less automatic.

If you don't start showing some arrogance, we're gonna boot you out of the fanbase.

 

[The Rube]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

If you don't start showing some arrogance, we're gonna boot you out of the fanbase.

.

 

[Slap Shot]

If you don't start showing some arrogance, we're gonna boot you out of the fanbase.

I'm one of the few fans here and at GPL that doesn't think the Gopher hockey world has come to an end and actually believes they'll be markedly improved.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I'm one of the few fans here and at GPL that doesn't think the Gopher hockey world has come to an end and actually believes they'll be markedly improved.

It's not a matter of coming to an end. It's a matter of trying to find something different about this group than the last 3. And that's a difficult task at this point. Freshmen traditionally don't light the world on fire (Vanek a glaring exception) and the current crop of upperclassmen has been underwhelming to say the least.

 

[gordwiser]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

It's not a matter of coming to an end. It's a matter of trying to find something different about this group than the last 3. And that's a difficult task at this point. Freshmen traditionally don't light the world on fire (Vanek a glaring exception) and the current crop of upperclassmen has been underwhelming to say the least.

I think the problem at this point is the coaching and the culture that has developed over the last few years. The talent is there to be more successful than they have been. I think Hill is a terrible choice to be top assistant. He is too much like Lucia and there is no fire and ice dynamic to push the players or to give players a different perspective. What works for one player doesn't neccesarily work for the next, and with Lucia and Hill you get more of the same.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I think the problem at this point is the coaching and the culture that has developed over the last few years. The talent is there to be more successful than they have been. I think Hill is a terrible choice to be top assistant. He is too much like Lucia and there is no fire and ice dynamic to push the players or to give players a different perspective. What works for one player doesn't neccesarily work for the next, and with Lucia and Hill you get more of the same.

I agree, Hill and Lucia seem to be joined at the hip. If the only way to separate these two is having this next season be Lucia's last, so be it.

EDIT:

Can you imagine what the outcome would look like if Bill Butters would have been hired as an asst.?

 

[Timothy A]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

Can you imagine what the outcome would look like if Bill Butters would have been hired as an asst.?

Eaves would have hired Hill?

Thank you, tDon.

It's really funny as a BADger fan to hear all these old stories as now Butters was totally hated by BADger nation. I've heard the word "Goon" associated with him many times. The story about some BADger fans mailing him a sheet with the word "Rancid" that hung in the Colleseum on it was a LOL moment.

 

[gordwiser]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I agree, Hill and Lucia seem to be joined at the hip. If the only way to separate these two is having this next season be Lucia's last, so be it.

EDIT:

Can you imagine what the outcome would look like if Bill Butters would have been hired as an asst.?

He's fired or run off all the other assistants... I just don't understand Hill's staying power.

 

[Slap Shot]

It's not a matter of coming to an end. It's a matter of trying to find something different about this group than the last 3.

With Tony gone, I think the dynamic of the team will change because I believe tDon will lay the hammer down again on malcontents. If so they won't need the freshmen to carry the load because the returning players will finally contribute the way they were supposed to all along, and if that happens then Hill becomes less of an influenteial downer.

People can whine about the last 3 years all they want, quite frankly Lucia's history points to more often getting very good results than mediocre results, they have returning talent even if its underperformed, and this F class looks more diverse and gritty than any in recent history.

If that's still reason to mope then so be it, but I'm tired of reading the woe is me comments from the fanbase.