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MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
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Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
Stop reading any thread where scooby posts, and you'll cut your woe is me quotient by 90%.
HarleyMC
Registered User
Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
Ah....Lucia, the reformed, new and improved nepotistic despot perspective.
Can you enlighten us on how Don and Tony Lucia should be blamed for the previous season's demise?
Ah....Lucia, the reformed, new and improved nepotistic despot perspective.
Can you enlighten us on how Don and Tony Lucia should be blamed for the previous season's demise?Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
With Lucia and Hill at the top, I really don't see how anything will change much.Ah....Lucia, the reformed, new and improved nepotistic despot perspective.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Reformed from what - the winning coach or the not-so-winning coach? Is it really that much easier to believe a coach with his history can lose his abilities but never regain nor tap into them again? I don't see it is a reformation as much as a getting back to what got him here in the first place. Perhaps you can enlighten us why you're so sure a winning coach of his caliber will no longer get his players to produce.
I've not blamed Tony in the least. The underperforming started at the top and worked its way to the bottom, and my feeling is that while Tony was in the lockerroom tDon tempered his willingness to lay down the law. It's only a theory, but given he's far more often than not got his teams to win big there's more reason to believe they can return to that form than not.
Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
I think the father -son situation very well *could* have played a role the last few years as well. I'm not going to speculate exactly what the issue was, just that the father-son relationship changed the dynamic of the coach-team relationship in some way that was not beneficial. Part of why despite feeling the coaching staff should shoulder much (most?) of the blame for the lackluster performance these past few years, if I were Maturi I would have kept Lucia as well (regardless of any financial/contractual issues).
I expect this year's Gopher team to be much better. They have the horses, they just need to get focused and put in the work.
Speaking of which, does anyone know anything about off-season training? I remember reading UND had started off-season workouts about 2 weeks after their season was ended.
That's where it all starts.
I think the father -son situation very well *could* have played a role the last few years as well. I'm not going to speculate exactly what the issue was, just that the father-son relationship changed the dynamic of the coach-team relationship in some way that was not beneficial. Part of why despite feeling the coaching staff should shoulder much (most?) of the blame for the lackluster performance these past few years, if I were Maturi I would have kept Lucia as well (regardless of any financial/contractual issues).
I expect this year's Gopher team to be much better. They have the horses, they just need to get focused and put in the work.
Speaking of which, does anyone know anything about off-season training? I remember reading UND had started off-season workouts about 2 weeks after their season was ended.
That's where it all starts.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
True. Although I don't think that applies in this case. If Tony is part of the reason than the Gophers should be back in spades this year.
I just don't buy it. I hope I'm wrong.
True. Although I don't think that applies in this case. If Tony is part of the reason than the Gophers should be back in spades this year.
I just don't buy it. I hope I'm wrong.
gordwiser
Registered User
Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
I don't buy it either. As the years went on, I disliked Tony more and more from an opposing fan perspective (because of how he got on the nerves of other teams...the type of player every team needs), while gaining more and more respect for his game, work ethic, and improvement. He had higher expectations than most because he was the coach's son and also because so many people didn't think he even belonged. I don't see how that would make Don Lucia less of an authoritarian in the locker room with other players.
I think their demise is a combination of the lack of above-average upperclassmen and upperclassmen leadership, not enough grinders, Hill as an assistant, Lucia's illness, and my favorite...an overall bad attitude. Not too much talk of being a "team" over at the Mooch and people picking up one another. Too many individuals. The culture has to change.
I don't buy it either. As the years went on, I disliked Tony more and more from an opposing fan perspective (because of how he got on the nerves of other teams...the type of player every team needs), while gaining more and more respect for his game, work ethic, and improvement. He had higher expectations than most because he was the coach's son and also because so many people didn't think he even belonged. I don't see how that would make Don Lucia less of an authoritarian in the locker room with other players.
I think their demise is a combination of the lack of above-average upperclassmen and upperclassmen leadership, not enough grinders, Hill as an assistant, Lucia's illness, and my favorite...an overall bad attitude. Not too much talk of being a "team" over at the Mooch and people picking up one another. Too many individuals. The culture has to change.
Happy
Registered User
HarleyMC
Registered User
Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
From a team perspective, there are good recruits coming in but they are untested in the WCHA. The evidence over recent years indicates that incoming freshman typically need more than one season in the league to make a significant impact. The regression rate of the returning players last year was alarming and the inability to overcome a two goal deficit was debilitating. IMO there will inevitably be some improvement in these areas, but motivation, goal scoring, grit and positioning (not necessarily independent variables) will remain next season as key issues of potential futility.
From a coaching standpoint, Hill's inability to adequately develop and motivate players is a huge risk factor for the Gophers. Lucia will be more intently focused this season but IMO what he has demonstrated over recent years is he has plateaued in his coaching ability to consistently motivate and develop players.
Lucia impresses me as a task oriented and authoritarian coach, not an approachable player's coach like Mike Guentzel was. There's a difference between being authoritarian and authoritative in establishing trust and ultimately developing good team chemistry and a healthy team culture.
According to most of the players, they have all dreamed one day of playing for the Gophers. But once they get there, do they really feel consistently motivated throughout the season to play under the Lucia/Hill coaching style and the culture they have created over the past several seasons? IMO this will be a critical point of adjustment for both of them next season.
"tDon tempered his willingness to lay down the law" because of Tony? So Lucia took a soft approach to disciplining Tony (and the rest of the team) lest Tony become disappointed or offended; at the cost of motivating and developing other players? And Lucia managed to pull it off for several seasons under the high profile scrutiny of the program's accountability structure, the players and the media?
C'mon Slap, that's a priori, a serious indictment, and completely without merit. If it was a significant problem at all, the players would not have nominated Tony as co-captain, Elwin "Doc" Romnes Leadership and Sportsmanship award winner and MVP. He had the respect of the players and rightly so as he had a much improved season (and college career) at his skill level and provided team leadership.
Here's Lucia's take on his own disciplinary efforts in the locker room:
According to your untested theory (hypothesis), a reformed nepotist.
Based upon the outcome of recent years, yes, for most fans it is easier to doubt his ability to successfully coach the Gophers to a title again. Without a top tier finish in the WCHA, an NCAA bid, and a Final Five appearance, a contract extension or a new contract in 2012 for Lucia is tenuous. Obviously, Lucia will put forth an extra effort this season and attempt to get the program back on track.
From a team perspective, there are good recruits coming in but they are untested in the WCHA. The evidence over recent years indicates that incoming freshman typically need more than one season in the league to make a significant impact. The regression rate of the returning players last year was alarming and the inability to overcome a two goal deficit was debilitating. IMO there will inevitably be some improvement in these areas, but motivation, goal scoring, grit and positioning (not necessarily independent variables) will remain next season as key issues of potential futility.
From a coaching standpoint, Hill's inability to adequately develop and motivate players is a huge risk factor for the Gophers. Lucia will be more intently focused this season but IMO what he has demonstrated over recent years is he has plateaued in his coaching ability to consistently motivate and develop players.
Lucia impresses me as a task oriented and authoritarian coach, not an approachable player's coach like Mike Guentzel was. There's a difference between being authoritarian and authoritative in establishing trust and ultimately developing good team chemistry and a healthy team culture.
According to most of the players, they have all dreamed one day of playing for the Gophers. But once they get there, do they really feel consistently motivated throughout the season to play under the Lucia/Hill coaching style and the culture they have created over the past several seasons? IMO this will be a critical point of adjustment for both of them next season.
"tDon tempered his willingness to lay down the law" because of Tony? So Lucia took a soft approach to disciplining Tony (and the rest of the team) lest Tony become disappointed or offended; at the cost of motivating and developing other players? And Lucia managed to pull it off for several seasons under the high profile scrutiny of the program's accountability structure, the players and the media?
C'mon Slap, that's a priori, a serious indictment, and completely without merit. If it was a significant problem at all, the players would not have nominated Tony as co-captain, Elwin "Doc" Romnes Leadership and Sportsmanship award winner and MVP. He had the respect of the players and rightly so as he had a much improved season (and college career) at his skill level and provided team leadership.
Here's Lucia's take on his own disciplinary efforts in the locker room:
state of hockey
He fixes the cable?
Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
Gopher hockey is done. It will never be any good again. I am now cheering for AIC.
Gopher hockey is done. It will never be any good again. I am now cheering for AIC.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Again that's where I'll agree to disagree. I wholeheartedly see a light at the end of this tunnel, and it isn't a train.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
So, the change is going to have to come from within and that is just as likely to happen as to not happen.
We just have to wait and see.
One thing for sure I think. tDon is not going to get a lot of rope this year before the press and the fans start jumping all over him.
And I'm not going to disagree with you, nor agree with you. There is nothing that has happened this offseason that is any different than the last 3 offseasons.Again that's where I'll agree to disagree. I wholeheartedly see a light at the end of this tunnel, and it isn't a train.
So, the change is going to have to come from within and that is just as likely to happen as to not happen.
We just have to wait and see.
One thing for sure I think. tDon is not going to get a lot of rope this year before the press and the fans start jumping all over him.
Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
pssst, me too.
Again that's where I'll agree to disagree. I wholeheartedly see a light at the end of this tunnel, and it isn't a train.
pssst, me too.
Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
Sadly of the revenue producing sports the hockey program is the least of Maturi's problems. Brew's teams are average at best and he's a nincompoop, Tubby's team is not winning on the court nor in court, the women's hoops team (I know, a stretch from a revenue perspective but the local media love to pretend the team matters) is getting worse but the minute....all this means tDon could finish at or around .500 again and get a raise.
That being said, put me in the optism camp for the hockey team.
Sadly of the revenue producing sports the hockey program is the least of Maturi's problems. Brew's teams are average at best and he's a nincompoop, Tubby's team is not winning on the court nor in court, the women's hoops team (I know, a stretch from a revenue perspective but the local media love to pretend the team matters) is getting worse but the minute....all this means tDon could finish at or around .500 again and get a raise.
That being said, put me in the optism camp for the hockey team.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread
Yet, Maturi fired the softball coaches?
Time to fire Maturi.
Sadly of the revenue producing sports the hockey program is the least of Maturi's problems. Brew's teams are average at best and he's a nincompoop, Tubby's team is not winning on the court nor in court, the women's hoops team (I know, a stretch from a revenue perspective but the local media love to pretend the team matters) is getting worse but the minute....all this means tDon could finish at or around .500 again and get a raise.
That being said, put me in the optism camp for the hockey team.
Yet, Maturi fired the softball coaches?
Time to fire Maturi.
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