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Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

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Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

D2D said:
Blake's Bullock readies for new girls' hockey season

"We just want to beat Shattuck so badly and prove Minnesota high school hockey is better. Actually, last weekend we won the NIT tournament. We beat Shattuck 2-1 in the final."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/280713472.html
Click to expand...

Hockey has become an industry instead of a kids sport. The state tourney is becoming a competition between privates to prove who can run a better hockey factory (boys more than girls but they are getting there). Who cares if Blake can recruit better than SSM? I don't think it is good for kids or ultimately for hockey.
 
Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

ne7minder said:
Hockey has become an industry instead of a kids sport. The state tourney is becoming a competition between privates to prove who can run a better hockey factory (boys more than girls but they are getting there). Who cares if Blake can recruit better than SSM? I don't think it is good for kids or ultimately for hockey.
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They should probably opt up to AA if they're attracting such talent laden rosters...at least.
 
Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

ne7minder said:
Hockey has become an industry instead of a kids sport. The state tourney is becoming a competition between privates to prove who can run a better hockey factory (boys more than girls but they are getting there). Who cares if Blake can recruit better than SSM? I don't think it is good for kids or ultimately for hockey.
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Certainly not true in Class AA, where there has been only one private school state champion in the history of the tournament, dating back to 1995 (from 1995 to 2001 there was just one class). The only year when a private school won was last year, when Hill Murray finally broke through. In boys AA, public schools have won six of the last ten, but more recently they've won four of the last five. So it's not like that's been "a competition between privates" either.

The real controversy surrounds Class A where the private schools have dominated, especially in recent years. In girls Class A, public schools have only won four of the last ten - the same number that Blake itself has won. In boys Class A, private schools have won seven of the last ten, but five of those seven titles were captured by St. Thomas Academy, which has now opted up to play in AA. So going forward the publics should be more competitive in the Class A boys state tournaments with no STA in the mix.

That will leave the Class A girls tournament as the only real "problem" if you care to look at it that way. I don't, personally. The better the teams the better the hockey, and for the fans the more enjoyable it is to watch.
 
Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

How is the slow but seemingly stead infiltration of AAA hockey being handled in MN?
 
giwan said:
How is the slow but seemingly stead infiltration of AAA hockey being handled in MN?
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Ha, too funny. They love it....until it conflicts with the high school season. Basically, it is frowned upon as unMinnesotian...a heinous intrusion upon the sacred cow of the community programs.
 
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Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Hux said:
Ha, too funny. They love it....until it conflicts with the high school season. Basically, it is frowned upon as unMinnesotian...a heinous intrusion upon the sacred cow of the community programs.
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"Heinous intrusion" may be a bit strong, but most here do support the community-based approach in youth, followed by playing for your high school of choice. "Grow the base of the pyramid" as Herb Brooks used to put it, and make hockey as affordable as possible for as many kids as possible. Outside the ~3 month high school season, most of the better/more dedicated players will play on various before/after teams, some of which participate in the various AAA tourneys. In addition, there's the fall Elite League for those who make it, plus a whole host of camps to choose from. But during season the focus is definitely on playing for your school, and approximately 120 of them across the state have girls hockey. Up to this point the community/school-based approach seems to have worked fairly well I would say.

AAA options remain few and far between. There have been several in recent years that have failed, including the short-lived Minnesota Crunch and the long-standing Minnesota Thoroughbreds. Shattuck-St. Mary's is the obvious exception, but they of course are a prep school that recruits nationally, and even beyond. More recently, a private school in Duluth (Duluth Marshall) tried an alternative approach, but it never really got off the ground. Then there was Achiever Academy, an online high school that promised extended ice time while still operating within Minnesota State High School League rules, but after advancing last year towards the small school (Class A) tournament was found to have ineligible players on their roster, and that program disappeared. This season, however, that organization has re-emerged into a true AAA alternative and will operate outside the MSHSL. They are now called "Revolution 19U" [ http://www.revolutiontier1hockey.com/girls19u/ ] and I guess only time will tell how they do and how long they will survive. If nothing else, they will give girls who, for whatever reason are not happy with their current situation, another option. And all else being equal I've always supported the notion that having options is a good thing.
 
Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Hux said:
Basically, it is frowned upon as unMinnesotian...a heinous intrusion upon the sacred cow of the community programs.
Click to expand...
I think Hux is coming from a perspective of prep hockey being a preparation for something beyond, only. One of the benefits of high school hockey in Minnesota is that it matters. Just like HS football in Texas or basketball in Indiana, there is significance in what happens to the HS team. I remember growing up listening to section tournament games on an AM radio fading in and out, and not my high school's team. We didn't even have hockey as a sport. Then the state tournament games were on TV, and you just wanted to stay up and watch, but they'd go to OT after OT and there was school the next day. I can still remember the teams and many of the players on them, and it was a long time ago, and I'll drive through some little town like Coleraine, and I'll remember watching Mike Antonovich on our old black and white TV.

I go watch a girls' club team play and the talent level is great, but there is zero electricity in the building. I go watch section semis and Hopkins, Wayzata, Minnetonka, and Benilde are all playing in the same arena, and it's a pretty special night of hockey for HS kids, and this isn't even at Xcel yet.

You favor a different model, and I respect that, but around here, it's not necessarily broken.
 
Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

D2D said:
Blake's Bullock readies for new girls' hockey season

"We just want to beat Shattuck so badly and prove Minnesota high school hockey is better. Actually, last weekend we won the NIT tournament. We beat Shattuck 2-1 in the final."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/280713472.html
Click to expand...

and then there is this:

"I didn’t start going to women’s games until a couple of years ago, when Dani Cameranesi graduated from Blake. So my biggest hockey role model is Sidney Crosby."

I went to both the men's & women's game last Saturday, judging from the crowd I'd say Gopher women do not get the support from women the way the men do, there were a LOT of college & high school age girls/women at Mariucci, it seems like if you took away the friends & family of the players, the only thing left at Ridder would be the very young and the very old
 
Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

pokechecker said:
I went to both the men's & women's game last Saturday, judging from the crowd I'd say Gopher women do not get the support from women the way the men do, there were a LOT of college & high school age girls/women at Mariucci, it seems like if you took away the friends & family of the players, the only thing left at Ridder would be the very young and the very old
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In response I would say that the women's team gets far more support from the general population than does just about any other women's team in the country. On Saturday they drew 2,496 and I don't think any other team came close. That said, there's still plenty of room for improvement as Ridder could hold almost a thousand more.
 
Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

brookyone said:
LPH pre-season rankings are up:

http://www.letsplayhockey.com/latest-rankings/high-school.html

What's happening at Roseville? MBTC? Don't think I've ever seen them nearly out of top 20...or anywhere near #19 really.
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I think maybe the well is finally running a little dry. If you look back at the 2009-2010 team they had 7 or 8 players who eventually played D1. These included Brausen, Stecklein and Flug at Minnesota, Hanna Brodt at SCSU, Jahnke at Penn State, Duellman at Bemidji and Witwicke who started at Niagara (before playing for Lindenwood after Niagara dropped hockey), and I suspect I am forgetting someone.

You can't reasonably expect to find that much talent showing up for first practice every year.
 
Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Wayoflife said:
In 10 games against the Minnesota High School Elite, Shattuck did go 8-2 and out scored the elite 32-12 in those 10 games.
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True, but bear in mind that the high school talent was spread out (watered down) over six different teams. If you were to pick the top girls and form one team (like Shattuck does) and have those girls continually practice and learn systems as a team together (like Shattuck does) the results and scores over 10 games would be completely different.
 
D2D said:
True, but bear in mind that the high school talent was spread out (watered down) over six different teams. If you were to pick the top girls and form one team (like Shattuck does) and have those girls continually practice and learn systems as a team together (like Shattuck does) the results and scores over 10 games would be completely different.
Click to expand...

Your points would be more valid if they played later in the season after Shattuck played and practiced together. However these games were played very early in the season. The first 2 games were Shattucks first 2 games of the season only 2 days after tryouts and the prep team was formed. They had exactly 1 practice before the first 2 elite games. Shattuck played 8 of their first 11 games of the season against the Elite league. They also only have 7 returning players on the Prep Roster so I would say the Elite teams were probably more familiar and had more time playing with each other than Shattuck did.
 
Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Wayoflife said:
Your points would be more valid if they played later in the season after Shattuck played and practiced together. However these games were played very early in the season. The first 2 games were Shattucks first 2 games of the season only 2 days after tryouts and the prep team was formed. They had exactly 1 practice before the first 2 elite games. Shattuck played 8 of their first 11 games of the season against the Elite league. They also only have 7 returning players on the Prep Roster so I would say the Elite teams were probably more familiar and had more time playing with each other than Shattuck did.
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Many if not most of the SSM prep team girls did move up from the U16 team where they did practice and play with one another for the entire previous season, whereas the high schoolers are just a collection of players from a bunch of different teams, who for the most part have never played together or for that matter even know one another. That and the fact that they form six teams (talent diluted), mostly comprised of players from just one metropolitan area, compared to SSM's one recruited team that comes from all over the country, and beyond.
 
D2D said:
Many if not most of the SSM prep team girls did move up from the U16 team where they did practice and play with one another for the entire previous season, whereas the high schoolers are just a collection of players from a bunch of different teams, who for the most part have never played together or for that matter even know one another. That and the fact that they form six teams (talent diluted), mostly comprised of players from just one metropolitan area, compared to SSM's one recruited team that comes from all over the country, and beyond.
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Survey says "XXX"

Saying talent is diluted in the Elite League is like saying the Gopher's roster lacks depth. While SSM may recruit from across the country, it doesn't mean their roster is blue chip from top to bottom. You'd have a case if you were comparing a AAA summer all-star team like the Whitecaps playing against the Elite League.
 
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