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Minnesota Cup
- Thread starter 4four4
- Start date
Runninwiththedogs
Tech Hot
Re: Minnesota Cup
This tournament hurts that angle as well. If tUMD has a chance to play both Buttmidji and Mankato in this tournament, do you think they're going to want to also schedule another series against them? Beersong brought this up on tPB but don't know if he brought it up over here.
I can't help it if you are making projections as to my mood. People really always seem to assign the worst possible tone and meaning to texts/posts/emails. Sounds like a great thesis for a graduate student in sociology or psychology or some other pseudo-science.
I am mean and/or rude often when I post on USCHO, but it's calculated.
If I'm vocal on this issue, it's because I think with the information we have, it appears tUMD's athletic director is selling out. I was concerned about how tUMD was going to be treated/perceived in the NCHC (internally, not externally) and was concerned they might be a puppet for UND and to a lesser extent DU. Fortunately the league has made some decisions that assuaged my fears a bit. That had nothing to do with the Gophers at all. I just want what's best for tUMD. I do find a lot about the Gophers and their fanbase to be obnoxious. I wouldn't miss that.
I just looked back through the stats and saw that one of the two Gopher games was indeed listed as a sell-out. The Friday game was listed as a sell-out but the Saturday game was not, even though the Saturday game had a higher paid attendance. Odd. There were still PLENTY of empty seats and I didn't recall the games announced as sell-outs. A rare mistake for me.
This tournament hurts that angle as well. If tUMD has a chance to play both Buttmidji and Mankato in this tournament, do you think they're going to want to also schedule another series against them? Beersong brought this up on tPB but don't know if he brought it up over here.
There are always plenty of Gophers fans at UMD and there were plenty at NCC last weekend. I myself do care if UM continues to play UND, UMD, SCSU and MSUM. I bet you too do or you wouldn't get so worked up about the Gophers as often as you do, but I guess it sounds much cooler to pretend otherwise.
btw I know people think if they come off angry that they sound serious and determined, but in reality they appear to just be angry.
I can't help it if you are making projections as to my mood. People really always seem to assign the worst possible tone and meaning to texts/posts/emails. Sounds like a great thesis for a graduate student in sociology or psychology or some other pseudo-science.
I am mean and/or rude often when I post on USCHO, but it's calculated.
If I'm vocal on this issue, it's because I think with the information we have, it appears tUMD's athletic director is selling out. I was concerned about how tUMD was going to be treated/perceived in the NCHC (internally, not externally) and was concerned they might be a puppet for UND and to a lesser extent DU. Fortunately the league has made some decisions that assuaged my fears a bit. That had nothing to do with the Gophers at all. I just want what's best for tUMD. I do find a lot about the Gophers and their fanbase to be obnoxious. I wouldn't miss that.
I just looked back through the stats and saw that one of the two Gopher games was indeed listed as a sell-out. The Friday game was listed as a sell-out but the Saturday game was not, even though the Saturday game had a higher paid attendance. Odd. There were still PLENTY of empty seats and I didn't recall the games announced as sell-outs. A rare mistake for me.
Re: Minnesota Cup
They've already scheduled Notre Dame for home and away games in the future and have apparently been working with BU/BC for the same thing. Not exactly crap programs. I have little doubt they will schedule the occasional away games with future WCHA and NCHC teams as well. The problem is it is going to be spread among many different non-conference opponents so no one team is going to see them in their rink that often.
When you have 4 non-conference road games to work with, you can't expect the Gophers to be at your rink consistently. It's just reality no matter how hard some people want to complain about it.
In addition, money talks when it comes to scheduling. The Gophers can offer up more of it to a team that may not get a return visit. Given so many small schools count on hockey for their athletic department budgets, I wouldn't be too sure that a nice check for a weekend visit to Mariucci is going to be refused often.
They've already scheduled Notre Dame for home and away games in the future and have apparently been working with BU/BC for the same thing. Not exactly crap programs. I have little doubt they will schedule the occasional away games with future WCHA and NCHC teams as well. The problem is it is going to be spread among many different non-conference opponents so no one team is going to see them in their rink that often.
When you have 4 non-conference road games to work with, you can't expect the Gophers to be at your rink consistently. It's just reality no matter how hard some people want to complain about it.
In addition, money talks when it comes to scheduling. The Gophers can offer up more of it to a team that may not get a return visit. Given so many small schools count on hockey for their athletic department budgets, I wouldn't be too sure that a nice check for a weekend visit to Mariucci is going to be refused often.
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Runninwiththedogs
Tech Hot
Re: Minnesota Cup
Stop acting like this is some externally-imposed guideline over which your athletic department has no control.
The Gophers should just pay all 4 other schools money instead of playing them at all.
Stop acting like this is some externally-imposed guideline over which your athletic department has no control.
The Gophers should just pay all 4 other schools money instead of playing them at all.
mnstate0fhockey
New member
Why would they just give them $$$ ?
Dirty
#BanBiddy
Re: Minnesota Cup
I never said it had no control. But I certainly don't expect them to financially hurt themselves to pacify people who aren't fans of their athletics. If they deem a certain amount of home games is what they need for their department's budget, that's simply how it is. They have far more to think about than a few random hockey fans of other schools.
I wouldn't expect UMD, UND, or any other team to do anything other than what they think is most effective for their finances. The difference is some programs simply have more bargaining power. That's how it is in college sports. Money talks. In the end, it is a business (a big business for schools with all D1 sports). It just seems to me the crybaby types on here say they understand D1 sports is a business but at the same time act like one team should not treat it that way.
I never said it had no control. But I certainly don't expect them to financially hurt themselves to pacify people who aren't fans of their athletics. If they deem a certain amount of home games is what they need for their department's budget, that's simply how it is. They have far more to think about than a few random hockey fans of other schools.
I wouldn't expect UMD, UND, or any other team to do anything other than what they think is most effective for their finances. The difference is some programs simply have more bargaining power. That's how it is in college sports. Money talks. In the end, it is a business (a big business for schools with all D1 sports). It just seems to me the crybaby types on here say they understand D1 sports is a business but at the same time act like one team should not treat it that way.
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Re: Minnesota Cup
You have 4 non-con games. Per year. You probably have 5-6 schools (in-state and traditional rivalry) along with the other non-con premiere schools, asking for road trips.
Simple math. (c) Scooby
You have 4 non-con games. Per year. You probably have 5-6 schools (in-state and traditional rivalry) along with the other non-con premiere schools, asking for road trips.
Simple math. (c) Scooby
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Minnesota Cup
UMD is free to make the decision not to play Minnesota. That's their choice.
UMD is free to make the decision not to play Minnesota. That's their choice.
Re: Minnesota Cup
I think this is exactly what I was trying to say. MN is free to impose that requirement on other schools. That's their prerogative. I think what some people fail to realize (including SOME Gopher fans, not necessarily Hammy, Brenthoven, et al) is that simply playing away games at Minnesota really does nothing to help our programs unless MN pays us to come. If there is no return trip, MN has to pay or other schools won't do it. It's an exercise in horse trading. This tournament offers a vehicle for both of those things to happen. Albeit, it's an imperfect scenario, but MN gets to help support other programs and make money in the process. The other teams can make money and, while I think this is a bit overrated, get some additional exposure to MN fans and potential recruits. To me it's a no-brainer. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing for everyone involved.
I never said it had no control. But I certainly don't expect them to financially hurt themselves to pacify people who aren't fans of their athletics. If they deem a certain amount of home games is what they need for their department's budget, that's simply how it is. They have far more to think about than a few random hockey fans of other schools.
I wouldn't expect UMD, UND, or any other team to do anything other than what they think is most effective for their finances. The difference is some programs simply have more bargaining power. That's how it is in college sports. Money talks. In the end, it is a business (a big business for schools with all D1 sports). It just seems to me the crybaby types on here say they understand D1 sports is a business but at the same time act like one team should not treat it that way.
I think this is exactly what I was trying to say. MN is free to impose that requirement on other schools. That's their prerogative. I think what some people fail to realize (including SOME Gopher fans, not necessarily Hammy, Brenthoven, et al) is that simply playing away games at Minnesota really does nothing to help our programs unless MN pays us to come. If there is no return trip, MN has to pay or other schools won't do it. It's an exercise in horse trading. This tournament offers a vehicle for both of those things to happen. Albeit, it's an imperfect scenario, but MN gets to help support other programs and make money in the process. The other teams can make money and, while I think this is a bit overrated, get some additional exposure to MN fans and potential recruits. To me it's a no-brainer. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing for everyone involved.
Re: Minnesota Cup
For those unaware, there is nothing new about a bigger school hosting smaller schools for a pay check, but no return trip. It happens all the time in football and basketball and probably in hockey. Might be less common in hockey because few schools get enough revenue from hockey to make it practical.
For those unaware, there is nothing new about a bigger school hosting smaller schools for a pay check, but no return trip. It happens all the time in football and basketball and probably in hockey. Might be less common in hockey because few schools get enough revenue from hockey to make it practical.
mnstate0fhockey
New member
Very well said.
scsutommyboy
Frozen four or Bust!!
Re: Minnesota Cup
Other teams fans get that, but what Mankato needs is not what SCSU and UMD needs. SCSU and UMD are going to be in a great conference and in my opinion don't need to whore themselves out to the Gophers. I realize not all fans or school admin's agree with me, but that is my opinion. I am sure this thing will happen, but I don't hink it will work long term.
Other teams fans get that, but what Mankato needs is not what SCSU and UMD needs. SCSU and UMD are going to be in a great conference and in my opinion don't need to whore themselves out to the Gophers. I realize not all fans or school admin's agree with me, but that is my opinion. I am sure this thing will happen, but I don't hink it will work long term.
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Re: Minnesota Cup
IMO, every school in all three conferences needs the Twin Cities television market without the Gophers playing in the WCHA and the new conference they will lose recruiting exposure to the most fertile recruiting ground in the western part of the United States. That is why they will try to continue to play the Gophers.
IMO, every school in all three conferences needs the Twin Cities television market without the Gophers playing in the WCHA and the new conference they will lose recruiting exposure to the most fertile recruiting ground in the western part of the United States. That is why they will try to continue to play the Gophers.
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Re: Minnesota Cup
It is totally less common in hockey but it would not surprise me if the Gophers go this route.
It is totally less common in hockey but it would not surprise me if the Gophers go this route.
Re: Minnesota Cup
You may be right. My guess is that the ADs understand the economics of their programs better then the fans do. I do know the WCHA schools have historically gotten pretty nice checks out of the playoff monies. Losing the frequent large incomes from Kohl and Mariucci hosting a first round has impacted those figures when UW and UMN have failed to host have hurt that in the past. Its total absence will hurt more. Being unable to bump up the ticket prices when the Gophers come to town will also hurt. This event may help to make that up for these schools and that is why the ADs favor it.
You may be right. My guess is that the ADs understand the economics of their programs better then the fans do. I do know the WCHA schools have historically gotten pretty nice checks out of the playoff monies. Losing the frequent large incomes from Kohl and Mariucci hosting a first round has impacted those figures when UW and UMN have failed to host have hurt that in the past. Its total absence will hurt more. Being unable to bump up the ticket prices when the Gophers come to town will also hurt. This event may help to make that up for these schools and that is why the ADs favor it.
Tipsy McStagger
Falling on fans at NHC since 2001
Re: Minnesota Cup
By the way, MSU, UMD and SCSU will have access to the Twin Cities television market, whether through Charter Mainstreet, Comcast or CBS College Sports. They probably still won't watch the games, but they do have access.
You are right. I am sure high school hockey players don't even know SCSU and UMD have Division I programs, despite the fact that they probably play with or against players that are being recruited by said schools.
By the way, MSU, UMD and SCSU will have access to the Twin Cities television market, whether through Charter Mainstreet, Comcast or CBS College Sports. They probably still won't watch the games, but they do have access.
Re: Minnesota Cup
For MSU and BSU, I think this is a very small part of the picture. Realistically, we aren't recruiting the same kids as the U. We don't get the kids taht are going to jump right from HS to starting on a college team, a la Rau and Bjugstad. The players we are getting are kids that are going to the USHL, BCHL, and under-recruited HS players. The HS players that might be effected by TV exposure is pretty small.
Let's be honest, this is all about the money. It's nothing more than a way to replace SOME of the revenue that's going to be lost from losing the Final Five. I'm not going to necessarily speak for SCSU and UMD, but I would assume that they are still going to lose a good chunk of cash from losing that even with the formation of the NCHC. While there is a feeling from the SCSU and UMD fans on here that they are "whoring" themselves out to the U, but I don't see it that way. I see it for what it is, making money for all the teams involved. It's not going to be the Beanpot, at least not in the immediate future, but it could help to close that revenue gap. If SCSU and UMD don't want to take part in that, I would be more than happy to do a home-and-home with the U and I'm sure BSU would be happy to do the same thing. I really think those team's fans feel like they have more leverage as a program than is actually available to them. If it's this tourney or not playing the U at all, the choice shouldn't be that hard.
For MSU and BSU, I think this is a very small part of the picture. Realistically, we aren't recruiting the same kids as the U. We don't get the kids taht are going to jump right from HS to starting on a college team, a la Rau and Bjugstad. The players we are getting are kids that are going to the USHL, BCHL, and under-recruited HS players. The HS players that might be effected by TV exposure is pretty small.
Let's be honest, this is all about the money. It's nothing more than a way to replace SOME of the revenue that's going to be lost from losing the Final Five. I'm not going to necessarily speak for SCSU and UMD, but I would assume that they are still going to lose a good chunk of cash from losing that even with the formation of the NCHC. While there is a feeling from the SCSU and UMD fans on here that they are "whoring" themselves out to the U, but I don't see it that way. I see it for what it is, making money for all the teams involved. It's not going to be the Beanpot, at least not in the immediate future, but it could help to close that revenue gap. If SCSU and UMD don't want to take part in that, I would be more than happy to do a home-and-home with the U and I'm sure BSU would be happy to do the same thing. I really think those team's fans feel like they have more leverage as a program than is actually available to them. If it's this tourney or not playing the U at all, the choice shouldn't be that hard.
scsutommyboy
Frozen four or Bust!!
Re: Minnesota Cup
The Gophers can only take so many kids. Almost Every SCSU home game is on comcast in the twin cities, so as long as the coaching staff is doing a good job and the team is winning they will get plenty of exposure.
Like I said this thing will happen. There is no way any of the four schools will drop out before they try it because if they did then there would be a four team tourney and that would work. If that was to happen that school would be left in the dark and nobody wants that to happen. They are better off letting it happen and then five years down the line when it fizzes out letting it die. Of course I could be wrong and the powers at be have some great idea on how to make all this work. I am not sure what that would be, but I guess it is possible.
The Gophers can only take so many kids. Almost Every SCSU home game is on comcast in the twin cities, so as long as the coaching staff is doing a good job and the team is winning they will get plenty of exposure.
Like I said this thing will happen. There is no way any of the four schools will drop out before they try it because if they did then there would be a four team tourney and that would work. If that was to happen that school would be left in the dark and nobody wants that to happen. They are better off letting it happen and then five years down the line when it fizzes out letting it die. Of course I could be wrong and the powers at be have some great idea on how to make all this work. I am not sure what that would be, but I guess it is possible.
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Re: Minnesota Cup
That is a legitimate concern. If any one of the five schools gets greedy and wants things done so that it benefits them more than the others, it will be a problem. It will be destined to fail. I think what this situation has going for it is that it's a "tournament". Everyone loves to compete in tournaments, however, the last event they had at the X had nothing on the line. It was nothing more than a doubleheader of games in the same arena. I hope that they find a way to make it work. I think it could be a windfall for everyone involved.
This hasn't been tossed around yet, but could potentially be an option. I know it's pie in the sky and will never happen, but why not make it an 8-team tourney with the five MN teams being a constant. In that case, everyone is guaranteed 3 games. It creates a fun atmosphere. It gives tournament bragging rights. It allows fans to plan on being there every year. Split the revenues evenly and everyone is happy (although I don't know the way financial aspect of visiting teams works). That would be a fun weekend for everyone.
That is a legitimate concern. If any one of the five schools gets greedy and wants things done so that it benefits them more than the others, it will be a problem. It will be destined to fail. I think what this situation has going for it is that it's a "tournament". Everyone loves to compete in tournaments, however, the last event they had at the X had nothing on the line. It was nothing more than a doubleheader of games in the same arena. I hope that they find a way to make it work. I think it could be a windfall for everyone involved.
This hasn't been tossed around yet, but could potentially be an option. I know it's pie in the sky and will never happen, but why not make it an 8-team tourney with the five MN teams being a constant. In that case, everyone is guaranteed 3 games. It creates a fun atmosphere. It gives tournament bragging rights. It allows fans to plan on being there every year. Split the revenues evenly and everyone is happy (although I don't know the way financial aspect of visiting teams works). That would be a fun weekend for everyone.