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LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
- Thread starter Laker Dude
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Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
In sports, and especially in high-stakes NCAA D-I athletics, there are always players who are promised the moon, and then cast aside. And, as a result, there are always those who will scream bloody murder in defense of the cast-aside player, usually parents and a girlfriend, and usually with the standard laundry list of "broken promises" combined with the euqally standard, "If only he had been given more of a chance . . . " Lets take the case of the Lakers' third string goalie. Heavily recruited, relavtively decently touted. Good numbers and no serious problems in Juniors. Holds a scholarship. Comes in under the standard promises of playing time and open competition. And yet, for some reason, the kid never hits the ice.
This is not some indicator of nasty tricks and dirty business in the coach's office. This is what happens in hockey. I've seen it my whole life. Once kids move from house-league where "everyone gets to play" into the nasty world of competative sports, there are kids who are cut, kids who sit, kids who don't get the play. Sometimes its petty disagreements with the coach, sometimes its politics, but USUALLY -- and in spite of the vitriolic displeasure of the parents and/or girlfriends -- USUALLY its because the kid just isn't good enough. At every level of sports, hockey included, there are those who can't make the jump. For whatever reason.
You know what? Every school has a third-string goalie. Many of those schools have 3rd stringers who never touch the ice. What do all these third string goalies have in common? They all were stars, and top players, at their previous Junior league stops. They dominated in high school, or in bantams. They dominated in PeeWee. They have been, by and large, the best goalies in their leagues and always the starting goalies for all of their teams. And now? Now they are 3rd string. Filling out the pactices. Maybe if an emergency comes up, they might dress and work the door on the bench.
So this is my point: We have a Laker team that is fun to watch, and really putting together a very good season. And I hear more discussion about a 3rd string goalie, and a coach whose last useful appearance at LSSU was over 20 years ago. And I guess in my mind that is a troubling indictment of the fan base of the program. People are so used to hating the coach that they can't enjoy success. We are battling in the best season in Laker hockey in a decade, at least, and we are instead more interested in using a 3rd string goalie's playing time as some backdoor way to show the coach is a jerk?
Listen, I am not saying there are not dirty tricks at play. There probably are. I don't know Ravn. Is it possible -- ney, probable -- that the coaching staff would prefer he move along, jump to D-III and free up money? Heck yes. They brought him in, and for some reason(s) he is not what they hoped he'd be. There need not be anything sinister about it, because there isn't anything novel about it. Its life in the Big Time. And here is one more thing: "Fair" has nothing to do with it. This is a bottom-line industry: win. The coach, who sees these kids every day on the ice, who has seen D-I athletes every day on the ice for decades, has determined which players give his team the best chance to win. The results thus far this season show his choice in goalie paying time has been excellent.
Should a random third-string goalie play in a meaningless exhibition game? Well, it depends on how you view that exhibition game. You have a week off. You have one home game. You are then entering a huge stretch run with implications for playoff scenarios swirling from finishing 1st to 9th. I guess the coach wanted to keep his players sharp, including his star goalie. Is it fair?
Fair has nothing to do with it. Sorry. Roque is trying to win the league, trying to get a top-four place, trying to get his team to the Joe and trying to get his team into the NCAAs.
I've probably written more -- too much more -- than I intended.
I hate to see the coach being smeared for no valid reason. Its just my opinion. If you don't like the coach -- great. I think there are bigger battles to fight. If you want to bag on the coach, I suggest using a different tact than the playing times of a young underclassman 3rd string goalie. Since we know nothing about the young man's grades, attitudes, work ethic, training dedication, puck movement, or general goalie abilities, I would prefer to defer judgment and put my faith in the decisions of the coaching staff. if Ravn leaves LSSU and racks up a Hall of Fame NHL career, then we can all look back and say Roque blew it. (something tells me this isn't going to be the case).
In sports, and especially in high-stakes NCAA D-I athletics, there are always players who are promised the moon, and then cast aside. And, as a result, there are always those who will scream bloody murder in defense of the cast-aside player, usually parents and a girlfriend, and usually with the standard laundry list of "broken promises" combined with the euqally standard, "If only he had been given more of a chance . . . " Lets take the case of the Lakers' third string goalie. Heavily recruited, relavtively decently touted. Good numbers and no serious problems in Juniors. Holds a scholarship. Comes in under the standard promises of playing time and open competition. And yet, for some reason, the kid never hits the ice.
This is not some indicator of nasty tricks and dirty business in the coach's office. This is what happens in hockey. I've seen it my whole life. Once kids move from house-league where "everyone gets to play" into the nasty world of competative sports, there are kids who are cut, kids who sit, kids who don't get the play. Sometimes its petty disagreements with the coach, sometimes its politics, but USUALLY -- and in spite of the vitriolic displeasure of the parents and/or girlfriends -- USUALLY its because the kid just isn't good enough. At every level of sports, hockey included, there are those who can't make the jump. For whatever reason.
You know what? Every school has a third-string goalie. Many of those schools have 3rd stringers who never touch the ice. What do all these third string goalies have in common? They all were stars, and top players, at their previous Junior league stops. They dominated in high school, or in bantams. They dominated in PeeWee. They have been, by and large, the best goalies in their leagues and always the starting goalies for all of their teams. And now? Now they are 3rd string. Filling out the pactices. Maybe if an emergency comes up, they might dress and work the door on the bench.
So this is my point: We have a Laker team that is fun to watch, and really putting together a very good season. And I hear more discussion about a 3rd string goalie, and a coach whose last useful appearance at LSSU was over 20 years ago. And I guess in my mind that is a troubling indictment of the fan base of the program. People are so used to hating the coach that they can't enjoy success. We are battling in the best season in Laker hockey in a decade, at least, and we are instead more interested in using a 3rd string goalie's playing time as some backdoor way to show the coach is a jerk?
Listen, I am not saying there are not dirty tricks at play. There probably are. I don't know Ravn. Is it possible -- ney, probable -- that the coaching staff would prefer he move along, jump to D-III and free up money? Heck yes. They brought him in, and for some reason(s) he is not what they hoped he'd be. There need not be anything sinister about it, because there isn't anything novel about it. Its life in the Big Time. And here is one more thing: "Fair" has nothing to do with it. This is a bottom-line industry: win. The coach, who sees these kids every day on the ice, who has seen D-I athletes every day on the ice for decades, has determined which players give his team the best chance to win. The results thus far this season show his choice in goalie paying time has been excellent.
Should a random third-string goalie play in a meaningless exhibition game? Well, it depends on how you view that exhibition game. You have a week off. You have one home game. You are then entering a huge stretch run with implications for playoff scenarios swirling from finishing 1st to 9th. I guess the coach wanted to keep his players sharp, including his star goalie. Is it fair?
Fair has nothing to do with it. Sorry. Roque is trying to win the league, trying to get a top-four place, trying to get his team to the Joe and trying to get his team into the NCAAs.
I've probably written more -- too much more -- than I intended.
I hate to see the coach being smeared for no valid reason. Its just my opinion. If you don't like the coach -- great. I think there are bigger battles to fight. If you want to bag on the coach, I suggest using a different tact than the playing times of a young underclassman 3rd string goalie. Since we know nothing about the young man's grades, attitudes, work ethic, training dedication, puck movement, or general goalie abilities, I would prefer to defer judgment and put my faith in the decisions of the coaching staff. if Ravn leaves LSSU and racks up a Hall of Fame NHL career, then we can all look back and say Roque blew it. (something tells me this isn't going to be the case).
Tooth Squid
New member
Neil Diamond
New member
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
We all know LSSU has a small hockey budget and the coaches surely don’t spend a lot of effort (time and money) recruiting #3 goalies. Of their most recent guys, Edmondson was a high school goalie out of Traverse City and Ciccone was a Northern Ontario kid who played AAA Midget hockey (he may have also played in the NOJHL, I don’t recall). They weren’t star Junior A goalies coming to LSSU expecting big things. I think they knew their role coming in. Ravn, on the other hand, was actively recruited by Roque and his assistants. I have no idea what was initially promised him in the way of scholarship money, but he was recruited as a #1 or #2 goalie for the future (post BMW). But then Roque changed his mind about Ravn, which is certainly his right to do, before Ravn ever started school at LSSU. What caused that? I don’t know. Maybe they subsequently saw Kapalka and liked his potential better. They really wanted Colin Campbell; maybe they had to take Kapalka to get Campbell to commit (both played for Vaughan of the OJHL). Maybe a Junior coach or another source told them that Ravn wasn’t as good as they thought. Maybe there was some other reason. I don’t know. The bottom line is that I think Ravn was getting nudged out of the picture before he ever became a Laker.
Here’s where fairness come into play as far as I’m concerned. The fair thing to do would have been for Roque to tell Ravn prior to the start of his freshman year, “look I’ve changed my mind about your future as a Laker, that’s just the nature of the business, it’s probably in your best interest to look elsewhere to play your college hockey”. I don’t think he did that. I get what you’re saying about playing time fairness. Heck, probably most #2 goalies and their friends/families think they’re being treated unfairly, let alone #3 guys. I just think Roque should have made clear where things stood with Ravn before he started school at LSSU. That would have been the fair thing to do for Ravn so he could make a more informed decision on his future as a college hockey player. I'm not trying to smear Roque, nor do I hate him, but I don't think he has handled Ravn very well.
Since Ravn has decided to stick it out at LSSU and be part of the team, I think it is reasonable for people to suggest he could get at least a little playing time as a show of respect, either in a non-conference game or an exhibition one. I recognize that you don’t care about that. I guess I’m just an old guy who thinks there’s more to the game than just the Ws and Ls.
I don’t know whether you haven’t read some of the posts about Ravn (and there haven’t been that many) or have chosen to ignore them, but you still are missing my main point. And it is an issue of fairness, despite what you think, but not one manifested by lack of playing time.
We all know LSSU has a small hockey budget and the coaches surely don’t spend a lot of effort (time and money) recruiting #3 goalies. Of their most recent guys, Edmondson was a high school goalie out of Traverse City and Ciccone was a Northern Ontario kid who played AAA Midget hockey (he may have also played in the NOJHL, I don’t recall). They weren’t star Junior A goalies coming to LSSU expecting big things. I think they knew their role coming in. Ravn, on the other hand, was actively recruited by Roque and his assistants. I have no idea what was initially promised him in the way of scholarship money, but he was recruited as a #1 or #2 goalie for the future (post BMW). But then Roque changed his mind about Ravn, which is certainly his right to do, before Ravn ever started school at LSSU. What caused that? I don’t know. Maybe they subsequently saw Kapalka and liked his potential better. They really wanted Colin Campbell; maybe they had to take Kapalka to get Campbell to commit (both played for Vaughan of the OJHL). Maybe a Junior coach or another source told them that Ravn wasn’t as good as they thought. Maybe there was some other reason. I don’t know. The bottom line is that I think Ravn was getting nudged out of the picture before he ever became a Laker.
Here’s where fairness come into play as far as I’m concerned. The fair thing to do would have been for Roque to tell Ravn prior to the start of his freshman year, “look I’ve changed my mind about your future as a Laker, that’s just the nature of the business, it’s probably in your best interest to look elsewhere to play your college hockey”. I don’t think he did that. I get what you’re saying about playing time fairness. Heck, probably most #2 goalies and their friends/families think they’re being treated unfairly, let alone #3 guys. I just think Roque should have made clear where things stood with Ravn before he started school at LSSU. That would have been the fair thing to do for Ravn so he could make a more informed decision on his future as a college hockey player. I'm not trying to smear Roque, nor do I hate him, but I don't think he has handled Ravn very well.
Since Ravn has decided to stick it out at LSSU and be part of the team, I think it is reasonable for people to suggest he could get at least a little playing time as a show of respect, either in a non-conference game or an exhibition one. I recognize that you don’t care about that. I guess I’m just an old guy who thinks there’s more to the game than just the Ws and Ls.
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Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
And Bill, I agree with you regarding respect. But I don't believe respect, in a winner-take-all D-I athletic program, is simply handed out for showing up. "Showing up" and "sticking with it" have nothing to do with anything.
And yes, it appears the kid was recruited heavily when there were real questions about the goalie position. And he came. And in the mean time the program, making sure they had the position well covered, brought in a few more recruits. And then the position was opened to competition. And one player, at least, lost. To his credit, he is staying at LSSU and as far as I know staying in school. But again we have no real way of knowing what is behind all this. Perhaps Ravn is the best goalie LSSU has on the roster, but his grades are horrible? Perhaps he violated team rules and is on some internal probation -- and the coaching staff is saving him from being humiliated. Maybe he has some criminal issues that are being discreetly handled? Perhaps he has a substance abuse issue? Perhaps he is getting mental health treatment? Maybe -- just maybe -- he is a terrible D-I goalie who gets lit up like a Christmas tree in practice and is being kept on the roster BECAUSE the COACH is honoring HIS promise to pay for this young man's education despite the fact the kid can't cut it. We can spin this any way we want. Respect is a funny term -- it means different things to different people -- and it has a different meaning when more perspective is gained. I don't know why he isn't playing, but frankly until Coach Roque tells us why he's not playing, we are all guessing. And if I am going to have to be forced to guess, then I will rely on the professional decisions of the coaching staff to do what is right for both the individual player and tghe program at large.
And Bill, I agree with you regarding respect. But I don't believe respect, in a winner-take-all D-I athletic program, is simply handed out for showing up. "Showing up" and "sticking with it" have nothing to do with anything.
And yes, it appears the kid was recruited heavily when there were real questions about the goalie position. And he came. And in the mean time the program, making sure they had the position well covered, brought in a few more recruits. And then the position was opened to competition. And one player, at least, lost. To his credit, he is staying at LSSU and as far as I know staying in school. But again we have no real way of knowing what is behind all this. Perhaps Ravn is the best goalie LSSU has on the roster, but his grades are horrible? Perhaps he violated team rules and is on some internal probation -- and the coaching staff is saving him from being humiliated. Maybe he has some criminal issues that are being discreetly handled? Perhaps he has a substance abuse issue? Perhaps he is getting mental health treatment? Maybe -- just maybe -- he is a terrible D-I goalie who gets lit up like a Christmas tree in practice and is being kept on the roster BECAUSE the COACH is honoring HIS promise to pay for this young man's education despite the fact the kid can't cut it. We can spin this any way we want. Respect is a funny term -- it means different things to different people -- and it has a different meaning when more perspective is gained. I don't know why he isn't playing, but frankly until Coach Roque tells us why he's not playing, we are all guessing. And if I am going to have to be forced to guess, then I will rely on the professional decisions of the coaching staff to do what is right for both the individual player and tghe program at large.
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
Bill, there seems to be more to this situation with Ravn then you're letting on. Perhaps you have become close with this young man and want to support him, but I feel it's tough to argue with Laker Blue's arguments. Clearly, this coach, currently reaching the end of a reportedly one year contract extension, will play the goalie most likely to help produce wins. But as I understand it, this is not what bothers you. You seem to indicate "promises" and "assurances" were made to Ravn. Only two people know what was said, Roque and Ravn. If he was assurred he was being recruited as the #1 goaltender, and then Kapalka fell into their lap, so be it. It would be foolish to bank on a single player if another option exists. Consider injuries, etc. My memory may be mistaken, and I know Bill you follow recruiting closely, but didn't Ravn actually sign after Kapalka, even though his recruitment started earlier? I remember a delay of some kind, possibly clearing house issues. He may not be playing, but they have not changed the keys on him, or cleaned out his locker. Also, his career isn't over, and no one can know the future.
To me, all any player can ask for is a chance to compete, and all goalies know that only one can play at a time. I hope it gets tougher and tougher to break into the Laker line-up. In the past, players have been able to coast because of the absence of a viable substitute.
Lastly, to put an end to revisionist history, lets not forget the phenomena of the "recruited walk-on" during the Anzalone and Jackson era. I hope I'm not the only one who remembers "students" disappearing from campus in early october when they didn't make the hockey team.
Bill, there seems to be more to this situation with Ravn then you're letting on. Perhaps you have become close with this young man and want to support him, but I feel it's tough to argue with Laker Blue's arguments. Clearly, this coach, currently reaching the end of a reportedly one year contract extension, will play the goalie most likely to help produce wins. But as I understand it, this is not what bothers you. You seem to indicate "promises" and "assurances" were made to Ravn. Only two people know what was said, Roque and Ravn. If he was assurred he was being recruited as the #1 goaltender, and then Kapalka fell into their lap, so be it. It would be foolish to bank on a single player if another option exists. Consider injuries, etc. My memory may be mistaken, and I know Bill you follow recruiting closely, but didn't Ravn actually sign after Kapalka, even though his recruitment started earlier? I remember a delay of some kind, possibly clearing house issues. He may not be playing, but they have not changed the keys on him, or cleaned out his locker. Also, his career isn't over, and no one can know the future.
To me, all any player can ask for is a chance to compete, and all goalies know that only one can play at a time. I hope it gets tougher and tougher to break into the Laker line-up. In the past, players have been able to coast because of the absence of a viable substitute.
Lastly, to put an end to revisionist history, lets not forget the phenomena of the "recruited walk-on" during the Anzalone and Jackson era. I hope I'm not the only one who remembers "students" disappearing from campus in early october when they didn't make the hockey team.
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
I don't know what promises or assurances were made to Ravn, but I believe he was recruited as a # 1 or #2 goalie and then Roque changed his mind about him. All I'm saying is Roque should have made that clear to Ravn so he could have made arrangements to go and play elsewhere, either Div 1 if he had any other such schools interested, Div 3, or CIS. That would have been the sensible thing to do. Yes, Ravn was recruited prior to Kapalka but Kapalka's signing (or at least verbal commitment) was publicized first. Commitment timings are largely a function of when a recruit's junior team makes a public announcement of his intent.
DB,
I don't know what promises or assurances were made to Ravn, but I believe he was recruited as a # 1 or #2 goalie and then Roque changed his mind about him. All I'm saying is Roque should have made that clear to Ravn so he could have made arrangements to go and play elsewhere, either Div 1 if he had any other such schools interested, Div 3, or CIS. That would have been the sensible thing to do. Yes, Ravn was recruited prior to Kapalka but Kapalka's signing (or at least verbal commitment) was publicized first. Commitment timings are largely a function of when a recruit's junior team makes a public announcement of his intent.
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
No time to spy on players' Facebook profile, nor to philosophize about why the rules of life or good manners should stop at the Taffy Abel Arena gate.
Things that are morally repugnant for some, are praised as efficient practice by those who just want to see their team win, or simply dislike trouble.
Many schools have experienced "standard practices" surfacing and threatening their reputation.
The board of the school has made a commitment which applies to all faculty members. It doesn't say the hockey athletes are excluded.
"Our mission at Lake Superior State University is to help students develop their full potential. We launch students on paths to rewarding careers and productive, satisfying lives."
"Ethics and Values. The University promotes an environment which values honesty, openness, and courteous behavior where everyone is treated with respect"."
Simply said, whoever doesn't see it that way should adjust or leave.
Again, some might claim this is "usual bull****", but that's what everybody else at the school try to do.
I don't want to drag the subject out, but I think you are crossing the line. "Perhaps" it is involuntary, "maybe" you are an honest uninformed person ... you should then verify your insinuations and come back and share your findings.
No time to spy on players' Facebook profile, nor to philosophize about why the rules of life or good manners should stop at the Taffy Abel Arena gate.
Things that are morally repugnant for some, are praised as efficient practice by those who just want to see their team win, or simply dislike trouble.
Many schools have experienced "standard practices" surfacing and threatening their reputation.
The board of the school has made a commitment which applies to all faculty members. It doesn't say the hockey athletes are excluded.
"Our mission at Lake Superior State University is to help students develop their full potential. We launch students on paths to rewarding careers and productive, satisfying lives."
"Ethics and Values. The University promotes an environment which values honesty, openness, and courteous behavior where everyone is treated with respect"."
Simply said, whoever doesn't see it that way should adjust or leave.
Again, some might claim this is "usual bull****", but that's what everybody else at the school try to do.
I don't want to drag the subject out, but I think you are crossing the line. "Perhaps" it is involuntary, "maybe" you are an honest uninformed person ... you should then verify your insinuations and come back and share your findings.
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backbencher
New member
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
Dear Lakerblue, you sound like someone who has know the game for at least a century
but you just shot yourself, or your friends, in the foot.
Guys with criminal issues, breaking school rules or needing mental health treatment exit ...
Dear Lakerblue, you sound like someone who has know the game for at least a century
but you just shot yourself, or your friends, in the foot.Guys with criminal issues, breaking school rules or needing mental health treatment exit ...
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
Haha -- no no no. I honestly don't know a darn thing about this kid. I couldn't pick him out of a line-up. And I have heard nothing in town about him. I presented those potential issues as a means to display other reasons why a players who is on the roster is not otherwise on the ice. I haven't been around for a century, although I feel like it most nights in Soo beer league hockey. I apologize if my remarks were interpreted as insulting to the young man. They were not meant to insult anyone. (And I honestly try hard to keep a civil tongue except when discussing Big Ten scumbags, the Lower Penninsula, or Minnesota hockey nonsense). I am not trying to start rumors. Since my point was not elloquently nor suffficiently clear: There are often many other reasons why a kid isn't playing. Yes, one of those reasons can be coach's bad attitude about a kid. Yes, sometimes a coach can just decide he doesn't like somebody and give him the mushroom treatment. But since we DON'T know, its not apporpriate to jump to any conclusions. Just as it would be unfair to assume that the young man is academically unsound or mentally struggling with some pyschological issue -- it is equally unfair to assume that the coach is just "screwing him over." I prefer to believe that there is (are) probably a darn good reason(s) why a goalie is not dressing for games. I prefer to believe that the decision not to dress a player is based on professional expertise and professional opinions, and that the decision is made for the good of the program. And unless somebody -- especially those who seem to want to beat this expiring horse into the permafrost -- can show me a specific reason why he isn't playing, I prefer to assume that the coaching staff have made this decision in the best interests of the program.
And frankly, I am sick to death of having my program, and my coaches, run into the ground, insulted, or spoken of like they are ignorant rubes and morons. Prove it, or shut up. And for the last time I will say this: If your sole example of the coaching staff's "black heart" is the treatment of a 3rd string goalie, you are unlikely to find a convert in me, nor in most of the other posters on this board.
Instead, tell me where the coach is failing. Tell me how you don't like the forechecking system. Tell me how you feel the breakout poorly designed and therefore keeping the team from transitioning into the attack. Tell me about face-off numbers. Tell me about his faulty line-matching. Tell me about sloppy coverage by the wingers down low. I am not saying the Lakers have ANY of these problems. But if you're going to bad mouth a coaching staff, at least bad mouth them for allegedly real problems and real deficiancies in coaching skills. At least mention, even off hand, how the team is doing on the ice.
(Note: I do not intend this response to be directed at Bill, who is a long-time and respectful poster, who indeed does have a tremendous amount of insight into the teams game-plan. I know that Bill feels the 3rd string goalie should be playing more, and that the treatment of this young man might have a chilling effect on future recruiting. I disagree, but that doesn't mean I think Bill's opinions are wrong-headed.)
To all the other 3rd string goalie Truthies . . . give me something.
Dear Lakerblue, you sound like someone who has know the game for at least a century
Guys with criminal issues, breaking school rules or needing mental health treatment exit ...
Haha -- no no no. I honestly don't know a darn thing about this kid. I couldn't pick him out of a line-up. And I have heard nothing in town about him. I presented those potential issues as a means to display other reasons why a players who is on the roster is not otherwise on the ice. I haven't been around for a century, although I feel like it most nights in Soo beer league hockey. I apologize if my remarks were interpreted as insulting to the young man. They were not meant to insult anyone. (And I honestly try hard to keep a civil tongue except when discussing Big Ten scumbags, the Lower Penninsula, or Minnesota hockey nonsense). I am not trying to start rumors. Since my point was not elloquently nor suffficiently clear: There are often many other reasons why a kid isn't playing. Yes, one of those reasons can be coach's bad attitude about a kid. Yes, sometimes a coach can just decide he doesn't like somebody and give him the mushroom treatment. But since we DON'T know, its not apporpriate to jump to any conclusions. Just as it would be unfair to assume that the young man is academically unsound or mentally struggling with some pyschological issue -- it is equally unfair to assume that the coach is just "screwing him over." I prefer to believe that there is (are) probably a darn good reason(s) why a goalie is not dressing for games. I prefer to believe that the decision not to dress a player is based on professional expertise and professional opinions, and that the decision is made for the good of the program. And unless somebody -- especially those who seem to want to beat this expiring horse into the permafrost -- can show me a specific reason why he isn't playing, I prefer to assume that the coaching staff have made this decision in the best interests of the program.
And frankly, I am sick to death of having my program, and my coaches, run into the ground, insulted, or spoken of like they are ignorant rubes and morons. Prove it, or shut up. And for the last time I will say this: If your sole example of the coaching staff's "black heart" is the treatment of a 3rd string goalie, you are unlikely to find a convert in me, nor in most of the other posters on this board.
Instead, tell me where the coach is failing. Tell me how you don't like the forechecking system. Tell me how you feel the breakout poorly designed and therefore keeping the team from transitioning into the attack. Tell me about face-off numbers. Tell me about his faulty line-matching. Tell me about sloppy coverage by the wingers down low. I am not saying the Lakers have ANY of these problems. But if you're going to bad mouth a coaching staff, at least bad mouth them for allegedly real problems and real deficiancies in coaching skills. At least mention, even off hand, how the team is doing on the ice.
(Note: I do not intend this response to be directed at Bill, who is a long-time and respectful poster, who indeed does have a tremendous amount of insight into the teams game-plan. I know that Bill feels the 3rd string goalie should be playing more, and that the treatment of this young man might have a chilling effect on future recruiting. I disagree, but that doesn't mean I think Bill's opinions are wrong-headed.)
To all the other 3rd string goalie Truthies . . . give me something.
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
Lighten up mabelle. You are missing the subtleties of laker blue's post. I don't think he is suggesting this player has any specific deficiencies. His post is an indictment of the speculation we are prone to engage in on this forum. Only Coach Roque and this player know the content of their conversations.
I agree with Bill that it is important that clear communication exist between all players and coaches. Teams function best when all players know their roles, and more importantly that roles will change based on performance.
How many points do you all think the Lakers need to finish in the top four of the CCHA?
Lighten up mabelle. You are missing the subtleties of laker blue's post. I don't think he is suggesting this player has any specific deficiencies. His post is an indictment of the speculation we are prone to engage in on this forum. Only Coach Roque and this player know the content of their conversations.
I agree with Bill that it is important that clear communication exist between all players and coaches. Teams function best when all players know their roles, and more importantly that roles will change based on performance.
How many points do you all think the Lakers need to finish in the top four of the CCHA?
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
I fully supported Crazy Frank while he was at the helm -- as his return was a great hope fo those of us who had grown very unhappy under Scott Borek's coaching era. But there are always young men who are recruited, come to campus, and don't make the grade. Perhaps Coach Anzalone was blameless in the failed college career of Jeff Oke? And Frank was real good to the growth and development of Eric Hill? Brian Gibes never had a prayer under Frank . . . I wonder why Frank didn't lavish him with love and respect? And I'm sure Jeff Cochrane really would have appreciated more opportunity and increased careful development of his hockey career by Coach Anzalone.
Talented players who do well at one level of hockey often can't cut it, for one reason or another, at the next level of hockey. Even Coach Anzalone knew this -- find him today and ask him all about Jeff Oke, for instance.
I fully supported Crazy Frank while he was at the helm -- as his return was a great hope fo those of us who had grown very unhappy under Scott Borek's coaching era. But there are always young men who are recruited, come to campus, and don't make the grade. Perhaps Coach Anzalone was blameless in the failed college career of Jeff Oke? And Frank was real good to the growth and development of Eric Hill? Brian Gibes never had a prayer under Frank . . . I wonder why Frank didn't lavish him with love and respect? And I'm sure Jeff Cochrane really would have appreciated more opportunity and increased careful development of his hockey career by Coach Anzalone.
Talented players who do well at one level of hockey often can't cut it, for one reason or another, at the next level of hockey. Even Coach Anzalone knew this -- find him today and ask him all about Jeff Oke, for instance.
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
That's difficult to say since so many teams are bunched so close together, but I think they need to win 3 out of the next 4 games to have a chance at a top 4 position going into the last weekend.
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
Agree 100%. I was talking with some friends today at lunch and the general belief was that they need a sweep of Alaska, not a split. A 5 point weekend would be ok, too. But really, to make sure they can rise to the 4th spot and continue their PWR movement, they need a sweep in Alaska.
That gives them SOME wiggle room in the very, very tough last four games against an improved Western and a "records don't matter" match up against NMU.
I am very happy with this team. Lets not spoil the season with a let down on the home stretch.
Agree 100%. I was talking with some friends today at lunch and the general belief was that they need a sweep of Alaska, not a split. A 5 point weekend would be ok, too. But really, to make sure they can rise to the 4th spot and continue their PWR movement, they need a sweep in Alaska.
That gives them SOME wiggle room in the very, very tough last four games against an improved Western and a "records don't matter" match up against NMU.
I am very happy with this team. Lets not spoil the season with a let down on the home stretch.
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
I think this team has better overall talent than we've had for quite a few years, but they still have to prove to us they can finish the regular season well and that's an area Laker teams have struggled at in recent years. So while I still have hope they can grab a top 4 spot, I'm not overly optimistic of their chances. They need to "show me the money". The main obstacle as I see it is that they haven't swept anyone since the end of October. They finally got over their Friday night problems; maybe now they can show us they can sweep someone again. To do that they will need to do a better job of putting the puck in the net both nights of a weekend series.
Tooth Squid
New member
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
I am so excited Wednesday night Miller High Life will be going head to head with their Plymouth Michigan Beer Hockey League rivals Old Mil Lite... Old Mil Lite boast a whos who of the PMBHL names like Jerry Thompson, Jack Jones, Larry Smith, Michael Hunt, Jeff "Buster" Hyman, and in goal Terry Morgan.... They will have their hands full with PMBHL All Star Nicky Smellers. The Kid is on fire 59 goals 88 assists 147 points and 3 PIMs...This guy could be all world... I mean really why didn't he play college hockey somewhere... That Kid is really really average, but in a league of drunks he is the best of the best... he could end up with 100 goals and 300 assists at the rate he is going...
The Tooth is out THERE
TNA
TNA
I am so excited Wednesday night Miller High Life will be going head to head with their Plymouth Michigan Beer Hockey League rivals Old Mil Lite... Old Mil Lite boast a whos who of the PMBHL names like Jerry Thompson, Jack Jones, Larry Smith, Michael Hunt, Jeff "Buster" Hyman, and in goal Terry Morgan.... They will have their hands full with PMBHL All Star Nicky Smellers. The Kid is on fire 59 goals 88 assists 147 points and 3 PIMs...This guy could be all world... I mean really why didn't he play college hockey somewhere... That Kid is really really average, but in a league of drunks he is the best of the best... he could end up with 100 goals and 300 assists at the rate he is going...
The Tooth is out THERE
TNA
TNA
Squarebanks
New member
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
Looking forward to the series this weekend, although I don't think anybody is sweeping anybody. I'll admit I've always admired Lake State's program from afar.
From our perspective, we had probably our best game all year in a general pasting of Notre Dame two weeks ago (although we flubbed the finale the next night), and last weekend outplayed Western Michigan in Kalamazoo for five out of six periods. It's been a tough year in terms of bounces not going our way; most of us were expecting a top 4 or 5 finish in the CCHA. I have to give our coaches and team credit; they have not mailed it in despite being stuck in 10th and still bring it every night.
My gut says LSSU leaves Fairbanks on Sunday with points, but no sweep.
Looking forward to the series this weekend, although I don't think anybody is sweeping anybody. I'll admit I've always admired Lake State's program from afar.
From our perspective, we had probably our best game all year in a general pasting of Notre Dame two weeks ago (although we flubbed the finale the next night), and last weekend outplayed Western Michigan in Kalamazoo for five out of six periods. It's been a tough year in terms of bounces not going our way; most of us were expecting a top 4 or 5 finish in the CCHA. I have to give our coaches and team credit; they have not mailed it in despite being stuck in 10th and still bring it every night.
My gut says LSSU leaves Fairbanks on Sunday with points, but no sweep.
Hockeyintheblood
New member
Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012
I know we beat the goalie thing to death but I was gone and will just point a couple of things and mind you they are not verified. My opinion only. I do not belief Rich Metro or Roque would promise any player any spot or playing time at this level, but why don't you ask them I am sure there are people who know them and can ask but I believe you won't because a promise like that is absurd. Also the player at this level should know it is absurd. Now last year you had BMW as the #1 goalie and K2 and Ravn came in. That was good recruiting because who knew BMW's history(injuries before and after). K2 pulled his shoulder and another goalie was brought in to practices from the school. I believe also that Ravn is actually a good student and in some difficult curriculm maybe engineering. Oh yes we have Marble out there unproven maybe until this junior season and I believe has another season of junior eligibilty left, let him develop no rush. Also this last year Murdock became availible from the USHL with some D1 experience prior ( he left D1 back to the USHL to develop). Last season Ravn did get a shot and they really only had two goalies and the third/fourth one I believe through clearing house and on reserve status or something, anyways practice with them. Ravn played a couple of games in exhibition and I believe didn't play to the level K2 did in them. I also don't believe there are exhibition games anymore the world is watching everything and I wish you could have unreportable scrimmages like in the NFL but you can't at this time. Maybe the NCAA should encourage this actually require it. Anyways Ravn I believe knows the situation since I do and I do believe he was allowed the opportunity to talk to other programs, if he wasn't that would be wrong. I have watched all 6 of these goalies play and practice. As an armchair coach I think the rankings are right and playing time under this present NCAA system for the three on the roster ( Roque could have brought the other reserve goalie in who practice at least as good as Ravn last year but he didn't I believe out of his respect for his commitment to Ravn). Also I believe Ravn will still have a chance if he wants it and works hard). Let's see K2 could leave this next year or the one after, Marble might move on but I doubt it ( I think he comes to LSSU even if he has to wait another year, actually I would wait one more regardless if I was him so I have a couple of years eligibilty over Ravn and Murdock). I also think Murdock is keeping k2 on his toes.. So in all this where is there a big conspiracy. Lastly it does not make sense to chase Ravn out at this time even for Marble. Oh and in all my dealings with the LSSU coaches they have been fair and open even though not to my personal liking.
I know we beat the goalie thing to death but I was gone and will just point a couple of things and mind you they are not verified. My opinion only. I do not belief Rich Metro or Roque would promise any player any spot or playing time at this level, but why don't you ask them I am sure there are people who know them and can ask but I believe you won't because a promise like that is absurd. Also the player at this level should know it is absurd. Now last year you had BMW as the #1 goalie and K2 and Ravn came in. That was good recruiting because who knew BMW's history(injuries before and after). K2 pulled his shoulder and another goalie was brought in to practices from the school. I believe also that Ravn is actually a good student and in some difficult curriculm maybe engineering. Oh yes we have Marble out there unproven maybe until this junior season and I believe has another season of junior eligibilty left, let him develop no rush. Also this last year Murdock became availible from the USHL with some D1 experience prior ( he left D1 back to the USHL to develop). Last season Ravn did get a shot and they really only had two goalies and the third/fourth one I believe through clearing house and on reserve status or something, anyways practice with them. Ravn played a couple of games in exhibition and I believe didn't play to the level K2 did in them. I also don't believe there are exhibition games anymore the world is watching everything and I wish you could have unreportable scrimmages like in the NFL but you can't at this time. Maybe the NCAA should encourage this actually require it. Anyways Ravn I believe knows the situation since I do and I do believe he was allowed the opportunity to talk to other programs, if he wasn't that would be wrong. I have watched all 6 of these goalies play and practice. As an armchair coach I think the rankings are right and playing time under this present NCAA system for the three on the roster ( Roque could have brought the other reserve goalie in who practice at least as good as Ravn last year but he didn't I believe out of his respect for his commitment to Ravn). Also I believe Ravn will still have a chance if he wants it and works hard). Let's see K2 could leave this next year or the one after, Marble might move on but I doubt it ( I think he comes to LSSU even if he has to wait another year, actually I would wait one more regardless if I was him so I have a couple of years eligibilty over Ravn and Murdock). I also think Murdock is keeping k2 on his toes.. So in all this where is there a big conspiracy. Lastly it does not make sense to chase Ravn out at this time even for Marble. Oh and in all my dealings with the LSSU coaches they have been fair and open even though not to my personal liking.
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