Hockey East 2010-2011

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Actually, if you're not going to be able to compete with BC year in and year out, having an unbalanced roster might be one way to ensure that you get a crack at the NCAAs at least once or twice every four years. I wondered at one point whether Maine might actually be better off doing that.

Of course, when the big class become seniors, they've got to produce, or the plan will get frustrating, fast...

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Actually, if you're not going to be able to compete with BC year in and year out, having an unbalanced roster might be one way to ensure that you get a crack at the NCAAs at least once or twice every four years. I wondered at one point whether Maine might actually be better off doing that.

Better ask Blaise how that has been working out for him? Timmay's better off holding his current course by the looks of it.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Better ask Blaise how that has been working out for him? Timmay's better off holding his current course by the looks of it.

Timmay's riding a class, too. They're just sophomores, instead of seniors.

2009-2010 Total games played by class

SR - 104 (4 players)
JR - 168 (5)
SO - 263 (8)
FR - 215 (8)

It'll be interesting next year to see what the new freshmen and sophomores do. I have a good feeling about the juniors.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Timmay's riding a class, too. They're just sophomores, instead of seniors.

2009-2010 Total games played by class

SR - 104 (4 players)
JR - 168 (5)
SO - 263 (8)
FR - 215 (8)

It'll be interesting next year to see what the new freshmen and sophomores do. I have a good feeling about the juniors.

That's not too bad, it could be more spread out, but its not like there are 15 of a given class.

 

[Patman]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Actually, if you're not going to be able to compete with BC year in and year out, having an unbalanced roster might be one way to ensure that you get a crack at the NCAAs at least once or twice every four years. I wondered at one point whether Maine might actually be better off doing that.

Of course, when the big class become seniors, they've got to produce, or the plan will get frustrating, fast...

I'm starting to come to the thought that this doesn't necessarily work... and I think a lot of it has to come down to natural leadership progression. This is just an idea but I think that maybe that players playing together so long become at the top of the hill too fast... so there's sort of a stagnation and complacency. I'm not accusing anybody of not wanting to achieve... but I have to wonder what happens to development and pressure to improve. If most of your guys hit their spots by sophomore year then what are they working for? Where's the general struggle other than having to beat other teams. Another thing along this line... when do you learn leadership when its thrust upon you nearly immediately? Teams with more regular classes develop their classes with time... the last giving way to the next so on.

Its just an idea... the other idea is that talent doesn't progress over 4 years as much as one would think. Either case, I don't think rotating "lump" classes are a solution.

 

[snwbrdr]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

A bit more on the incoming UVM recruiting class below. I see that Montagna has been a defered a year - supposedly due to an injury. That takes this falls class down a notch but the following two years classes look even better with the early commits all being highly ranked/rated. A friend told me that Girgensons is an absolute monster scorer.

Hockey Cats’ Class of ‘14 has promise
April 01, 2010 • 2:16 pm
By Ted Ryan

The University of Vermont men’s hockey team is expected to bring in another talented freshman class in September.

Under UVM and NCAA rules, head coach Kevin Sneddon is not allowed to comment on recruited student-athletes until each has been admitted to the university and signed a national letter-of-intent.

Still, many of the players have confirmed their commitments to UVM. The Class of ’14 is expected to consist of the following seven players plus one more defenseman as yet uncommitted.

The list could change with the addition of players should any current UVM underclassman decide to relinquish his college eligibility and sign a professional contract.

Here is a snapshot of the members of the Class of ’14 with the most recently available statistics:

F Connor Brickley, 18, Everett, Mass., 6-1, 193: Ranked 49th among North American skaters in the mid-season Central Scouting list, Brickley is a highly skilled forward with a hard edge. He has exceptional speed. He scored 20 goals and 41 points in 46 games for Des Moines of the USHL. Brickley was just named to the U.S. U-18 team for the world championships.

F Alex DeCenzo, 20, Hibbing, Minn., 5-10, 175: Over the past two seasons, DeCenzo has collected 31 goals and 73 points in 118 games for Tri-City of the USHL. He’s been described as a “waterbug” player with very good hands that make him a crafty playmaker.

D Arthur Griem, 19, Grosse Pointe Shores, Mich., 6-3, 205: Griem is a stay-at-home defenseman who picked up one goal and eight points along with 88 penalty minutes in 41 games for the New York Apple Core of the EJHL.

F Brooks Herrington, 19, Bow, N.H., 6-4, 205: The brother of UVM sophomore defenseman Lance Herrington, Brooks Herrington is a power forward who will need to learn to use his size at the college level. He has a great shot and scored 36 goals and 83 points over the past two seasons with the N.H. Junior Monarchs of the EJHL.

F H.T. Lenz, 21, Vienna, Va., 5-10, 175: Lenz can score, picking up 18 goals and 43 points in 53 games for Des Moines (USHL), but he’s better known as a strong two-way workhorse with leadership potential.

G Alex Vazzano, 19, Trumbull, Conn., 6-2, 190: The brother of UVM sophomore goalie John Vazzano, Alex Vazzano de-committed to Union and selected Vermont after his NHL stock rose. He’s big and talented. His statistics this year for The Gunnery are hard to find but he was at 2.19, .925 in 34 games a year ago.

F Matt White, 18, McMurray, Pa., 6-2, 195: White, who de-committed to North Dakota, scored 11 goals and 26 points in two years in the Des Moines (USHL) system before returning home for his senior year, where he played for Peters Township High School and the Pittsburgh Viper Stars (45 games; 36-42-78). He’s a power forward with exceptional skill.

Class of’15: F Mike Montagna; D Blake Doerring; F Zemgus Girgensons; F Colin Markison; D Nick Luukko.

Class of’16: F Thomas Forgione; F Connor Anthoine; D Ian Spencer.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Its just an idea... the other idea is that talent doesn't progress over 4 years as much as one would think. Either case, I don't think rotating "lump" classes are a solution.

I think your first idea is right. Maine had several years in the early-mid 2000s when they continued to be competitive despite not getting huge contributions from freshmen. At least from Maine's perspective, there's solid evidence in favor of player progression.

And I think you're probably right about the detrimental effect of really unbalanced rosters on that progression.

 

[bsaeagle64]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

NU - the program is on the rise overall but will lack scoring

I disagree, but only based on last season. Last season's scoring was not only by Srs. Looking at the top 10 scorers - NU lost #2 and #9 and #5. The remainder of the top 10 scoring was accomplished by 2 Jrs, 1 So and 4 Fr. In think the scoring will be there, but, in goal, hopefully, Rawlings will improve.

 

[GoNU5]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

I disagree, but only based on last season. Last season's scoring was not only by Srs. Looking at the top 10 scorers - NU lost #2 and #9 and #5. The remainder of the top 10 scoring was accomplished by 2 Jrs, 1 So and 4 Fr. In think the scoring will be there, but, in goal, hopefully, Rawlings will improve.

Not to mention we return our #4 scorer from 2008/2009, who had been out with an injury.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

I disagree, but only based on last season. Last season's scoring was not only by Srs. Looking at the top 10 scorers - NU lost #2 and #9 and #5. The remainder of the top 10 scoring was accomplished by 2 Jrs, 1 So and 4 Fr. In think the scoring will be there, but, in goal, hopefully, Rawlings will improve.

But NU was 9th in scoring? So even if you return everyone, scoring is still lacking. Unless a freshmen comes in that makes immediate impact, or someone else steps up and has a breakout season, I think it was legitimate to say NU lacks scoring. JMO

 

[unhpuckfan2001]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

but, in goal, hopefully, Rawlings will improve.

He has all the skills to do so, tall, quick, and very athletic. What few games I watched, it seemed a lot of times he'd get left hung out to dry once or twice -- that's on both the defensemen to stop, and Cronin to correct. On top of that, he seemed a bit of a headcase at times, letting one or two goals shake him. That's something that I would expect to ease up as he gets more experienced, and also something Cronin (or NUs goaltending coach) would be working on.

 

[whitaker9999]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Does anyone have any thoughts on ranking the recruiting classes coming in

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Does anyone have any thoughts on ranking the recruiting classes coming in

1. Michigan
2-59. It doesn't matter

Sorry. Old joke around these parts.

I'll leave this one to others.

 

[GoMaine24]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

What a terribly stupid post from start to finish.

Let's get this right out of the way. I'm sure you're having sweet dreams hoping all of BCs players will leave early so that your hillbilly team from Maine can slip into the top spot and moonshine will flow freely in Vacationland (because no one would really want to LIVE there year round) to celebrate the return to the top for Maine hockey as we once knew it. Let me slap you in the face with some reality. Very very very very very unlikely.

Nick, could you do me the favor of pointing out where in my post I said: This is definitely whats going to happen...

I said that BC is an easy pick to put my money on because they're returning such a stacked team and I don't see many flight risks. I also never said those specific teams were desperate to sign those specific players because they're elite prospects....I was explaining the only potentially plausible hypothetical offseason situation that could weaken their framework.

And it doesn't necessarily matter if those guys are dominating their level of play right now or not. If I'm the GM, and I've got a 6'3'' defensive prospect with enough raw skill for me to take a chance on his future, and I've got the opportunity to have him start developing in our system at 19 as opposed to 22 or 23....why wouldn't I try to take that head start?

York is a good coach who can also refine their skills, but the level of competition will only get so high before you reach a ceiling and become vulnerable to complacency.


Not sure what this has to do with Maine and my hillbilly dreams....they're expected to do well next year, but they were also expected to do jack**** last year and look what happened. NU will probably be between 8-10 in most coaches polls, but I think they're going to surprise some people next year. Expectations aside...It doesn't matter if Maine is slated for #2 or #10....this is just about my take on what might weaken an otherwise obvious pick to repeat.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Nick, could you do me the favor of pointing out where in my post I said: This is definitely whats going to happen...

I didn't say you ever said "definitely." Regardless, it was truly assinine to post that it was "fairly realistic" and that you "don't think its unrealistic to think *this summer* NHL teams could rape and pillage their defense".

I said that BC is an easy pick to put my money on because they're returning such a stacked team and I don't see many flight risks.

Well, that is cute but it certainly contradicts your post about all of the defensemen, how big they are, how they already accomplished all of their goals at BC, and other reasons why their GMs want to sign them so badly and why they are just killing each other to leave BC right now.

I also never said those specific teams were desperate to sign those specific players because they're elite prospects....I was explaining the only potentially plausible hypothetical offseason situation that could weaken their framework.

I don't really care. Again, when throwing out the wording "fairly realistic" you make it seem like it's better than 50/50. When in reality, those of us who know hockey and know the program know that it was VERY unlikely that anyone would leave and QUITE unlikely that 1 would leave at most.

And it doesn't necessarily matter if those guys are dominating their level of play right now or not. If I'm the GM, and I've got a 6'3'' defensive prospect with enough raw skill for me to take a chance on his future, and I've got the opportunity to have him start developing in our system at 19 as opposed to 22 or 23....why wouldn't I try to take that head start?

Great but...
1) Dumoulin was the only one dominating at this level.
2) You probably should learn about things like the CBA and how contracts work.
3) The thing about young guys and their "frame" as you were talking about is that they need to put weight on it and playing less games and having a very structured training regimen in college allows them to do so. Ask Blake Wheeler what his first pro season did to him as far as losing weight. Nah, forget it, you sound like you know what you're talking about.

College is nice for a GM because they hold the rights through the summer of their graduation and can let them develop on someone else's dime. You don't bring in skinny 6'3" kids and pay them to get their butts kicked in the AHL or to send them down to ECHL, which is about equivalent to D1.

York is a good coach who can also refine their skills, but the level of competition will only get so high before you reach a ceiling and become vulnerable to complacency.

All well and good and I agree, but those guys are nowhere near their ceiling aside from, again, Dumoulin.

My suggestion is make sure you know what the heck you're talking about before going off on some ridiculous fantastical post that you dreamed up one night. That's all.

 

[GoMaine24]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

I didn't say you ever said "definitely." Regardless, it was truly assinine to post that it was "fairly realistic" and that you "don't think its unrealistic to think *this summer* NHL teams could rape and pillage their defense".

Why is it asinine? Are you saying that drafted underclassmen leaving after they win a national championship is a complete oddity? It happens almost every year. If by asinine you mean: I don't share your viewpoint....then yes, it was clearly extremely asinine.

Well, that is cute but it certainly contradicts your post about all of the defensemen, how big they are, how they already accomplished all of their goals at BC, and other reasons why their GMs want to sign them so badly and why they are just killing each other to leave BC right now.

I was talking about their forwards. My sincere apologies for not being crystal clear the first time.

I don't really care. Again, when throwing out the wording "fairly realistic" you make it seem like it's better than 50/50. When in reality, those of us who know hockey and know the program know that it was VERY unlikely that anyone would leave and QUITE unlikely that 1 would leave at most.

If you told me something was "fairly good" or simply "fair"...I wouldn't perceive it as something you were completely crazy or sold on. If I thought the odds were greater than 50/50, I would have said: its very realistic.....or just....its realistic.....

Great but...
1) Dumoulin was the only one dominating at this level.
2) You probably should learn about things like the CBA and how contracts work.
3) The thing about young guys and their "frame" as you were talking about is that they need to put weight on it and playing less games and having a very structured training regimen in college allows them to do so. Ask Blake Wheeler what his first pro season did to him as far as losing weight. Nah, forget it, you sound like you know what you're talking about.

College is nice for a GM because they hold the rights through the summer of their graduation and can let them develop on someone else's dime. You don't bring in skinny 6'3" kids and pay them to get their butts kicked in the AHL or to send them down to ECHL, which is about equivalent to D1.

The Blackhawks offered Simon Danis-Pepin *cringe* a contract off the stage at 17....and he was (is) just awful! He was 6'7'' and probably 85 pounds soaking wet at the time. He went to Maine and they still made him offers to leave early....did you see that guy play D? He was a joke. But you are right....in his time at Maine, he did put on about 3 1/2 pounds and actually tried to check someone by his senior year. He completely missed and tripped over the blueline again, but so he was much more ready.

The Blackhawks idiocy for wanting him aside....its just one example that not every team shares your view here....so you must forgive me for having the outrageous audacity of announcing that another GM might ask his draft pick if he wants to sign this year.

If your point is just...."I think the player has a better shot in the long run by waiting" then fine, say so, and I won't dismiss your opinion. But whether Nick thinks its a good idea or not won't make or break the GM making an offer.

My suggestion is make sure you know what the heck you're talking about before going off on some ridiculous fantastical post that you dreamed up one night. That's all.

Just out of curiosity, does USCHO pay you a commission to go on every single thread and correct other people's lunacies? They should...because I don't know what I'd do without you setting me straight. It must be nice to know it all....but, I guess it comes with great responsibility so I'm glad you're doing your part.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Why is it asinine? Are you saying that drafted underclassmen leaving after they win a national championship is a complete oddity?

It is assinine because for this team, it was not going to happen, let alone the wording you used as "fairly realistic." Your problem is that you don't know what you're talking about specifically as it relates to BC and you are hoping a generalization that kids leave early after a title will stick.

The Blackhawks offered Simon Danis-Pepin *cringe* a contract off the stage at 17....and he was (is) just awful! He was 6'7'' and probably 85 pounds soaking wet at the time. He went to Maine and they still made him offers to leave early....

Do you know how I know you're full of it? Because he wasn't property of Chicago until June 2006. His birthday is 4/11/1988. So... he was already 18 when he was drafted. Nice try.

I won't even try to confirm whether Chicago was trying to sign him right out of the draft. I guess with your track record, we'll all just have to believe you!!!!

...in his time at Maine, he did put on about 3 1/2 pounds and actually tried to check someone by his senior year. He completely missed and tripped over the blueline again, but so he was much more ready.

I'd like to not pretend to know about Maine hockey, just like you shouldn't fantasize to pretend to know about BC's defense and their "fairly realistic" signing of pro contracts this summer. But, according to the Maine website, he started at 208 on the freshman roster and was listed as 235 on the senior roster. Even with fudged numbers I would assume it's consistently done and he put on some weight. Maybe you know more about his weight than I do, and that's fine because I really don't care.

Keep talking out of your rear-end.

ps - after this dies down, you should be introduced to the BU fan that thinks frozen pucks are more bouncy and therefore they do not freeze pucks before and during the game. You two will have fun discussing hockey together.

 

[acs64]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Oh my, this is soooooo delicious. Can we discuss plus-minuses soon ?

 

[GoMaine24]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Oh my, this is soooooo delicious. Can we discuss plus-minuses soon ?

Yea, that was Simon's most rockin' category!!

 

[GoMaine24]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

It is assinine because for this team, it was not going to happen, let alone the wording you used as "fairly realistic." Your problem is that you don't know what you're talking about specifically as it relates to BC and you are hoping a generalization that kids leave early after a title will stick.

Where did it say I was hoping?
Where did it say its going to happen?

This is called a discussion forum. People make speculations....doesn't make it gospel. Isn't that the whole basis of this thread? Speculation over things that might happen next year? I could say: "I think Vermont is going to finish 4th"....and whats it based on?? Speculation.... Sneddon has coached up his players well and I think Rob Madore is going to have a good year based on what I've seen in the past. Maybe they'll finish 4th, maybe they'll finish 1st, maybe they'll finish last, or maybe they'll all get caught in a heroin ring and kicked out of Hockey East?! Who cares? It's meant for discussion. Your version of discussion is calling people who don't agree with your POV idiots.

Pardon me for forgetting that BC is obviously the exception to every rule even though they lost players early after both 2001 and 2008. Hey, maybe you don't think Dumoulin and Samuellson are the same caliber as the likes of Kobasew, Orpik or Gerbe....and judging only by comparing NCAA performances so far, they don't compare yet. But there are plenty of players who haven't looked pro-ready based on their thusfar collegiate showing, and it turned out we were wrong! After 2004, if you told me Dustin Penner was going to become a solid player on a Stanley Cup team within a few years, I would have wondered what you were smoking? He wasn't even the best player on his line that year. But what did he have? A pro-ready frame and coachable raw skill.


You asked me : really? You know all these kids' specific goals? Nope, but do you? If so, please enlighten us.

Do you know how I know you're full of it? Because he wasn't property of Chicago until June 2006. His birthday is 4/11/1988. So... he was already 18 when he was drafted. Nice try.

I won't even try to confirm whether Chicago was trying to sign him right out of the draft. I guess with your track record, we'll all just have to believe you!!!!

Yes yes....he was a 17 year old freshman at Maine and he was drafted shortly after that season...so going on that recollection, and my lack of Googling his name like you did made the fact that he had a birthday before the draft slip my mind. I said he was 17 when he was drafted....BUT.....it was 2 months after his 18th birthday. I AM SOOOOOO FULL OF IT! My integrity is ruined forever!

Heh....samsonite....I was way off!!!

I'd like to not pretend to know about Maine hockey, just like you shouldn't fantasize to pretend to know about BC's defense and their "fairly realistic" signing of pro contracts this summer. But, according to the Maine website, he started at 208 on the freshman roster and was listed as 235 on the senior roster. Even with fudged numbers I would assume it's consistently done and he put on some weight. Maybe you know more about his weight than I do, and that's fine because I really don't care.

Keep talking out of your rear-end.

Well sir, you are right on base....because football and hockey teams never, ever, ever add a few inches, or 10 or 20 lbs to their listed heights and weights, right??

Teams do that all the time, have for years, especially for their undersized, or proportionally undersized players. When other teams are preparring for you, it helps you look stronger, whether that mindtrick actually works or not.

Chara is listed as 6'9'' 260. If he were actually 6'7'' 235....his frame wouldn't be far dramatically far off from big Z. His senior year, he'd usually be kicking a soccer ball in the coorider until 6:15 during home games. Anyone else pass by and think that comparison is even close? Frankly, I'd be worried about him slipping through the crack of a sewer drain.

I apologize if you couldn't handle the sarcasm of the 3 1/2 pound joke. That was my way of saying...yes, he obviously added SOME size before graduation....but was still dramatically underweight for his height (for a player hoping to go pro).

Maine's website also listed Shemansky as 5'7''. I've got a picture of him with a 5'2'' friend of mine, both in streets and flat shoes....and no way does he have more than 2 inches on her. Teams do that all the time.

ps - after this dies down, you should be introduced to the BU fan that thinks frozen pucks are more bouncy and therefore they do not freeze pucks before and during the game. You two will have fun discussing hockey together

I really hope you enjoy these years, because I haven't met fans with less humility than Boston College. For the sake of the fans, hopefully York can provide a gravy train for another 20 years because if his successor can't sustain the same level of success....not too many fanbases are going to have a lot of sympathy.. They've been the best team in college hockey this past decade, but prior to 2001, they hadn't had national bragging rights in 52 years.

As for the smartass BU comment....I went down to Agganis this year and Maine got creamed....but I had a tremendously good time, and didn't receive one hassle or example of disrespect from the BU fans. I would definitely go back.