Hockey East 2010-2011

[jcarter7669]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

I would liken muse to josh beckett. beckett has put together some decent seasons (best being a 2007 cy young runner up); but has really made his mark in the playoffs (7-3, 2 WS titles).

Sure he has won 15 games 4 times (3 BOS, 1 FLA) but when you look at his era+ from his best season (2007) it is only 145; which means in the history of baseball there are over 500 better single season performances.

but the guy is obviously a huge gamer, and no one doubts his ability when something is on the line. so in summary, muse + redneck = beckett

And maybe Hutton is like Schilling pre bloody sock. Just hadn't had the opportunity to prove he could do it because the team around him sucked.

 

[NUMcNeely]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

And maybe Hutton is like Schilling pre bloody sock. Just hadn't had the opportunity to prove he could do it because the team around him sucked.

Curt Schilling was a co-world series MVP with the D-backs when they beat the yankees in 7 games back in the 2001 world series. Safe to say he had production when it counted before then.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Curt Schilling was a co-world series MVP with the D-backs when they beat the yankees in 7 games back in the 2001 world series. Safe to say he had production when it counted before then.

Good point, I stand corrected.

Either way point is you can't disparage Hutton as not being a big game goalie since he hasn't had the chance to prove it.

Muse had, and in many cases has been lucky to have the offense to bail him out. Other times he steals games. But he has had the chance to show. I don't think its fair to compare the two based on "big games" when only one has had an opportunity to show there ability.

 

[Jon]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

I have been living under a rock since September of 1997. Is this BC team really good or something? What have they won recently?

I can not tell from the posts on this thread.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

So I guess we should pick the unknown over the proven big-game performer. Makes sense to me.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

So I guess we should pick the unknown over the proven big-game performer. Makes sense to me.

Hutton wasn't unknown, he had BETTER STATS in the regular season so obviously he would win the national title if he had the chance!!!!!!! DUHHHH. Mike Ayers and Ty Conklin say so.

I guess we should change the "eyeball test" that the more intelligent fans would use to a "bloodshot eyeball test" for the UVMers.

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

I would liken muse to josh beckett. beckett has put together some decent seasons (best being a 2007 cy young runner up); but has really made his mark in the playoffs (7-3, 2 WS titles).

Would you say that Beckett was the best pitcher in the AL in 2007?

 

[SteveF]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Would you say that Beckett was the best pitcher in the AL in 2007?

wow looking back i forgot how close those two were. the stats are nearly identical (with the exception of the playoffs - which couldnt be more different)

W
20
19

ERA
3.27
3.21

WHIP
1.14
1.14

k/9
8.7
7.8

k:bb
4.85
5.65

playoffs
4-0 1.2 ERA .7 WHIP
1-2 8.94 ERA 2.38 WHIP


so yeah, knowing the award is a regular season award.. i dont have that big of a problem with CC winning it. the 20 games vs 19 is irrelevant. all stats are pretty much equal otherwise - and i'm sure the higher k/bb ratio suggests slightly better control.

but who was the better pitcher all year? most definitely beckett. he was marginally worse during the season (if that), and i like the higher K/9 anyway, and obviously the playoff stats speak for themselves.

then again, if beckett had won the award, my original point would be moot! this comparison was slightly easier to make since both were on decent teams and had seasons of relatively equal length. its certainly harder to say who is better between a guy who has a stellar regular season on a bad team and a guy who a good season on a great team.

 

[NUMcNeely]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

wow looking back i forgot how close those two were. the stats are nearly identical (with the exception of the playoffs - which couldnt be more different)

W
20
19

ERA
3.27
3.21

WHIP
1.14
1.14

k/9
8.7
7.8

k:bb
4.85
5.65

playoffs
4-0 1.2 ERA .7 WHIP
1-2 8.94 ERA 2.38 WHIP


so yeah, knowing the award is a regular season award.. i dont have that big of a problem with CC winning it. the 20 games vs 19 is irrelevant. all stats are pretty much equal otherwise - and i'm sure the higher k/bb ratio suggests slightly better control.

but who was the better pitcher all year? most definitely beckett. he was marginally worse during the season (if that), and i like the higher K/9 anyway, and obviously the playoff stats speak for themselves.

then again, if beckett had won the award, my original point would be moot! this comparison was slightly easier to make since both were on decent teams and had seasons of relatively equal length. its certainly harder to say who is better between a guy who has a stellar regular season on a bad team and a guy who a good season on a great team.

CC also threw a ton of innings that year, definitely over 220, you could argue since he was out there more he was more valuable to his team DURING THE REGULAR SEASON, but he was not as valuable overall because he stunk it up in the postseason where the games matter considerably more. Had no problems with him winning the Cy Young award that year, he had a better regular season and was more valuable to his team than beckett was to the sox. CC was just completely gassed when he got to the ALCS, thankfully

 

[SteveF]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

CC also threw a ton of innings that year, definitely over 220, you could argue since he was out there more he was more valuable to his team DURING THE REGULAR SEASON, but he was not as valuable overall because he stunk it up in the postseason where the games matter considerably more. Had no problems with him winning the Cy Young award that year, he had a better regular season and was more valuable to his team than beckett was to the sox. CC was just completely gassed when he got to the ALCS, thankfully

its funny that cc had a rotation of carmona and byrd who both won 19 and 15 games, respectively. then there was some guy named cliff lee who went 5-8.. bum.

 

[Onion Man]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

And maybe Hutton is like Schilling pre bloody sock. Just hadn't had the opportunity to prove he could do it because the team around him sucked.

Hutton = Dice K (overrated)

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Good point, I stand corrected.

Either way point is you can't disparage Hutton as not being a big game goalie since he hasn't had the chance to prove it.

Muse had, and in many cases has been lucky to have the offense to bail him out. Other times he steals games. But he has had the chance to show. I don't think its fair to compare the two based on "big games" when only one has had an opportunity to show there ability.

you have to start somewhere.. before Muse won a NC he won two OT games in the beanpot as a freshman, then he stood tall and helped the igles beat uhn in the HE sf in OT. he then did the same vs MOH in worcester. (and yes, he gave up goals in all of those games - but again you take what is given to you and prove yourself. you don't sit back and say "gee, that game 3 that we lost in OT at Maine wasn't really a big game..don't worry Hutton.")

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

wow looking back i forgot how close those two were. the stats are nearly identical (with the exception of the playoffs - which couldnt be more different)

W
20
19

ERA
3.27
3.21

WHIP
1.14
1.14

k/9
8.7
7.8

k:bb
4.85
5.65

playoffs
4-0 1.2 ERA .7 WHIP
1-2 8.94 ERA 2.38 WHIP


so yeah, knowing the award is a regular season award.. i dont have that big of a problem with CC winning it. the 20 games vs 19 is irrelevant. all stats are pretty much equal otherwise - and i'm sure the higher k/bb ratio suggests slightly better control.

but who was the better pitcher all year? most definitely beckett. he was marginally worse during the season (if that), and i like the higher K/9 anyway, and obviously the playoff stats speak for themselves.

then again, if beckett had won the award, my original point would be moot! this comparison was slightly easier to make since both were on decent teams and had seasons of relatively equal length. its certainly harder to say who is better between a guy who has a stellar regular season on a bad team and a guy who a good season on a great team.

I'm willing to leave it at this, as I think it makes my point well enough (not that Muse wasn't the best, just that there's the possibility that he might not have been). Thanks for discussing it rationally, Steve.

 

[Carmine Scarpaglia]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Hutton = Dice K (overrated)

Bwahahaha.

Give Dice K credit, he did win the decisive game in the World Series. Hutton would be like a more mediocre version of Zach Greinke.

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Give Dice K credit, he did win the decisive game in the World Series.

Funny, sure looked like Jon Lester on the mound in game 4.

 

[Carmine Scarpaglia]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Funny, sure looked like Jon Lester on the mound in game 4.

Oh snap, he won game 3. I guess that lessens his accomplishment.

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Oh snap, he won game 3. I guess that lessens his accomplishment.

Hey, he was 1-for-3 with 2 RBI in that game (that plus winning the game puts his name in the Red Sox record books alongside Babe Ruth and Cy Young). He actually pitched pretty well in that game, giving up only 2 earned runs in 5 1/3 innings, and probably 22 full counts spread over the 23 batters he faced.

source (I didn't know all of that from memory)

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

So I guess we should pick the unknown over the proven big-game performer. Makes sense to me.

You guys are missing the point, at this stage of the game it is clearly intentional.

We already went through the big game "what if scenario" so I'm not getting back into that, you can check back through the thread.

This was a very simple comment which I said Hutton AND Hamilton were the best goaltending TANDEM in HE last year. After Muse and Milner were brought in I have given full credit for Muse and his performances in big games. He wins and its that simple. But he wins alot of games because BC has such a powerhouse team, not necessary because of the way Muse played. That's not to say he doesn't play big in big games because he does. But this is not about BC winning games, its about which goalies played the best last year and based on individual goalie stats for the course of the year that goes IMO to H&H. If you want to talk about who the best goalie of the post season was that's another topic.

But I mean this is getting really absurd. I have seen pretty much no one disparge BC at all. I mean you really can't, but for some reason you BC fans are walking around with a huge chip on those shoulders... BC was the class of the field last year and will be this year. That doesn't mean that they were the absolute best in EVERY single category. As a team though they were great. Hutton had a great year on an sorely underachieving team. Muse had a great year on a really great team. Even the eyeball test supports Hutton... at least if you aren't wearing blinders.

It makes sense for the BC fans to want to rate Muse on how he played in the NCAA tourney because he was stellar. But really if we are comparing goalies how can you honestly compare a goalies 5 games results to another goalie who didn't play and throw out that goalies regular season results because they were regular season??? Unless you just don't want to acknowledge them.

Other interesting point, Almost none of the BC fans will even admit that Hutton was ONE OF THE TOP goalies. At least the rest of acknowlege Muse's talent. We have Slasher who don't think their names even belong in the same sentence... You guys really need to get over your perceived "lack of respect."

I mean really... next someone is going to tell me Nyquist doesn't belong in any comparison to Atkinson because ME didn't make the NCAA tourney

 

[Slasher7]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

You guys are missing the point, at this stage of the game it is clearly intentional.

We already went through the big game "what if scenario" so I'm not getting back into that, you can check back through the thread.

This was a very simple comment which I said Hutton AND Hamilton were the best goaltending TANDEM in HE last year. After Muse and Milner were brought in I have given full credit for Muse and his performances in big games. He wins and its that simple. But he wins alot of games because BC has such a powerhouse team, not necessary because of the way Muse played. That's not to say he doesn't play big in big games because he does. But this is not about BC winning games, its about which goalies played the best last year and based on individual goalie stats for the course of the year that goes IMO to H&H. If you want to talk about who the best goalie of the post season was that's another topic.

But I mean this is getting really absurd. I have seen pretty much no one disparge BC at all. I mean you really can't, but for some reason you BC fans are walking around with a huge chip on those shoulders... BC was the class of the field last year and will be this year. That doesn't mean that they were the absolute best in EVERY single category. As a team though they were great. Hutton had a great year on an sorely underachieving team. Muse had a great year on a really great team. Even the eyeball test supports Hutton... at least if you aren't wearing blinders.

It makes sense for the BC fans to want to rate Muse on how he played in the NCAA tourney because he was stellar. But really if we are comparing goalies how can you honestly compare a goalies 5 games results to another goalie who didn't play and throw out that goalies regular season results because they were regular season??? Unless you just don't want to acknowledge them.

Other interesting point, Almost none of the BC fans will even admit that Hutton was ONE OF THE TOP goalies. At least the rest of acknowlege Muse's talent. We have Slasher who don't think their names even belong in the same sentence... You guys really need to get over your perceived "lack of respect."

I mean really... next someone is going to tell me Nyquist doesn't belong in any comparison to Atkinson because ME didn't make the NCAA tourney

Nyquist is a stud who stepped up when the chips were on the table. I guess if you could tell me any game Hutton won that had any significance, I'd be more understanding. He was a bright spot on a poor team, but that's about it. I dont think he wins a national title if he played on BC because there's no evidence that he is mentally strong enough to take his game to the next level in a big game.

There's a long line of goalies who ripped it up in the regular season only to melt down in the NCAAs (insert name of UNH goalie here).

 

[NUMcNeely]

Re: Hockey East 2010-2011

Hey, he was 1-for-3 with 2 RBI in that game (that plus winning the game puts his name in the Red Sox record books alongside Babe Ruth and Cy Young).

Ugliest single ever, I was rolling on the floor laughing when he hit that though, that spelled the end of Rocktober right there. Don't forget Derek Lowe on that list! Memory serves me right he won every clinching game in '04, there's something to be said for that. He's still putting up decent numbers, I was a fan of home the sox dumped house after that season, but I wish Lowe could have stayed.