Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

[MinnFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Racial Preference Allowed in Health Care Bill

Yet another issue that is likely to get challenged in court.

 

[joecct]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

I keep repeating ....

If the bills are so flawed, why pass them?

 

[Plante26]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

I keep repeating ....

If the bills are so flawed, why pass them?

So Obama can say he actually did something during his first year in office?

I mean, even though the bill doesn't really do anything, the proles won't know any better......

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

I keep repeating ....

If the bills are so flawed, why pass them?

Cause if they didn't pass a flawed bill, nothing would get passed. Two of Bush's major legislative accomplishments are considered to be NCLB and the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit.

Care to guess how many flaws are in those bills? Both of those bills I was against.

The only thing I agree with in this legislation is the "you can't be dropped" and "you cannot be denied" parts, which never should have been allowed in the first place. The rest of it is basically trash.

 

[joecct]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Cause if they didn't pass a flawed bill, nothing would get passed. Two of Bush's major legislative accomplishments are considered to be NCLB and the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit.

Care to guess how many flaws are in those bills? Both of those bills I was against.

The only thing I agree with in this legislation is the "you can't be dropped" and "you cannot be denied" parts, which never should have been allowed in the first place. The rest of it is basically trash.

But to pass a bad bill for the sake of passing a bill is wrong, isn't it?

And I agree with you on the two Bush43 laws you cited.

 

[Plante26]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Cause if they didn't pass a flawed bill, nothing would get passed. Two of Bush's major legislative accomplishments are considered to be NCLB and the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit.

Minnesota is currently in the process of applying for $200 million in funding for schools through the Stimulus. The teacher's union is dead set against it because the terms and conditions of the funding are tied directly to student performance.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Minnesota is currently in the process of applying for $200 million in funding for schools through the Stimulus. The teacher's union is dead set against it because the terms and conditions of the funding are tied directly to student performance.

Yeah, but what you and the folks on capital hill never realize is student performance doesn't have much to do with teachers.

And now that teachers HAVE TO TEACH to the Pawlenty/Bush exams they have no freedom anymore to become good or bad teachers. They're just mindless automatons implementing a flawed ideal.

 

[walrus]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

And now that teachers HAVE TO TEACH to the Pawlenty/Bush exams they have no freedom anymore to become good or bad teachers. They're just mindless automatons implementing a flawed ideal.

All they care about is test scores. My kids school practiced for weeks to try to get scores up. Thats what I call learnin'

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

All they care about is test scores. My kids school practiced for weeks to try to get scores up. Thats what I call learnin'

Exactly. And the reason they care about the test scores is the school's funding is tied directly to it.

It's sad and pathetic. But, hey, NCLB was a great idea.

 

[walrus]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

It's sad and pathetic. But, hey, NCLB was a great idea.

That what scares me about the health care bill

 

[Plante26]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Yeah, but what you and the folks on capital hill never realize is student performance doesn't have much to do with teachers.

And now that teachers HAVE TO TEACH to the Pawlenty/Bush exams they have no freedom anymore to become good or bad teachers. They're just mindless automatons implementing a flawed ideal.

I don't disagree. It's not too different from the health care commission that is part of the Health Care Reform Bill. There's no room for improvisation.

Consider it the "Left Wing Lock" of education.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

That what scares me about the health care bill

Yeah, I'm scared too, but less than I was about education. Education was pretty good before NCLB if you knew where to look and where to live.

Health Care is so screwed up now I'm not sure they could make it much worse. I admit that I could be wrong, but I don't think it's going to affect me as much as NCLB did.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

My brother's union accepted a paycut to increase their health care benefits last summer, doctor visits, medication, dental, optical, and chiropractic. He just lost all their benefits except doctor visits and chiropractic, and this plan costs the same as the previous.

Such a great system.

 

[joecct]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

My brother's union accepted a paycut to increase their health care benefits last summer, doctor visits, medication, dental, optical, and chiropractic. He just lost all their benefits except doctor visits and chiropractic, and this plan costs the same as the previous.

Such a great system.

Who administers the health plan - the company or the union?

 

[Foxton]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Who administers the health plan - the company or the union?

Administers the health plan? The insurance company that said "you don't get this anymore and the cost is going to stay the same."

The union is stupid for accepting it, but I can't comment on what their other options were, or if there even were.

 

[Patman]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

All they care about is test scores. My kids school practiced for weeks to try to get scores up. Thats what I call learnin'

back home one of the schools won an award for improved test scores... how'd they do it? They stopped teaching one of the core subjects... I forget which one.

Good ideal, flawed idea.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

And now that teachers HAVE TO TEACH to the Pawlenty/Bush exams they have no freedom anymore to become good or bad teachers. They're just mindless automatons implementing a flawed ideal.

Definitely flawed logic. I had some GREAT teachers who were obsessed with test scores and also some horrible teachers who didn't know what an AP test was. Testing or not, good teachers will still be good teachers and bad teachers will still be bad teachers.

Oops. Sorry. According to the NEA, there are no bad teachers. Strike that last statement...

 

[leswp1]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Definitely flawed logic. I had some GREAT teachers who were obsessed with test scores and also some horrible teachers who didn't know what an AP test was. Testing or not, good teachers will still be good teachers and bad teachers will still be bad teachers.

Oops. Sorry. According to the NEA, there are no bad teachers. Strike that last statement...

THe 'good' teachers are still hamstrung. In our town- most of the fieldtrips that were to historical sights or for science stuff- cancelled. A lot of the creative projects that got kids to be interested and think out of the box- cancelled. My kid didn't get any science and barely any Soc Studies (they did something around Thanksgiving) until after the MCAS in March of 4th grade (this is the subject that Patman was talking about) because there was no MCAS in science or Soc studiesthat yr. The big test that yr was to write an essay. That is what they did almost exclusively for 3 months. Nothing else except math and a bit of spelling. Of course the next yr everyone sucked at science but they had moved to the next school and that made the next school look bad, not the 4th grade school.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Definitely flawed logic. I had some GREAT teachers who were obsessed with test scores and also some horrible teachers who didn't know what an AP test was. Testing or not, good teachers will still be good teachers and bad teachers will still be bad teachers.

Oops. Sorry. According to the NEA, there are no bad teachers. Strike that last statement...

I'm sorry, I just disagree. The good teachers are now forced to teach to the test. The test is what funds the school. The creativity in the classroom is now gone. Instead of accepting that you got good and bad teachers in your life and that was part of the process and the school experience, and part of learning as well we have neutered the process. Mindless automatons for the win. You can have your opinion on my logic, but it certainly is not flawed. It's sound and based on real observation and facts.

 

[pirate]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

could you both be right?

start with a system that won't allow 'bad' teachers to be addressed...suffer decade after decade of declining performance in the classroom (not due to bad teachers alone) and then try to figure out how to fix it...since you can't change the bad teacher protection program you try to figure out how to get scores up (scores, as flawed as they are, are the only measure people can agree upon)...the only way to do that is to put teeth behind it...since it is a government entity it consumes money at an alarming pace and everybody wants to protect the number of bodies since that justifies administrator ratios etc...so you threaten to cut funding if test scores lag...so they invent the block system where certain subjects are only taught for half a year (the half leading up to the test on that subject) but are taught for a disproportionate length to cram stuff into heads so it can be regurgitated in 4 hours on a Tuesday afternoon.