Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

[MinnFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Some of the potential legal challenges that may be used after implimentation of the bill.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Had a "health care" meeting at work yesterday. There was some debate over whether we'd be switching our health insurance provider, and our President shared the whole story with us. The reason?

For every dollar our company spent on premiums last year, the insurance company (ok, I won't hide which one: United Healthcare) spent $0.84 on expenses. To make that clear: Every time United spent 84 cents on my company, they got a dollar in return. Adjust the percentages, and that's a little bit over 19% return on investment, minus overhead. Not bad, eh? Pretty good for a company that happily limits their coverage whenever they **** well please. (One of the best examples that came up yesterday was where they refused to cover the treatment of a kid's broken arm) And they even had a better number last year, they only paid out 71 cents on the dollar that year- their first with our company.

Well, guess who tried to enforce a 31% rate increase on us, after raking in the profit from us for the past two years?

So with that in mind, yes let's maintain our precious status quo and protect these poor corporations from <strike>their customers</strike> all those mean tyrants who want them to actually do something with all the money they're swallowing. While we're at it, let's throw a pity party for the late Charles Ponzi.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Had a "health care" meeting at work yesterday. There was some debate over whether we'd be switching our health insurance provider, and our President shared the whole story with us. The reason?

But at least you have the option of switching to another company. Imagine if this was happening and that was the only place you could turn to.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

But at least you have the option of switching to another company. Imagine if this was happening and that was the only place you could turn to.

Boy, it'd be nice if genuine capitalism applied here (even I, a <strike>moderate</strike> "Godless Communist" liberal, would be overjoyed if that were the case), but the sad and annoying truth (in my limited experience) is that it truly does not.

Here's the thing: we searched around for a new provider, and that just sent us in a circle. Same cost issues, different providers. The quality of coverage may or may not improve, but (and I'm learning this very quickly) even with a PPO you never truly know what your coverage is until they start denying it. This just seems to be the way insurance companies seem to operate. And maybe my case is exaggerated. Maybe if my company had more than ~60 people, things would be different. But is that really just baseless hope?

The more I see personally (which, I'll admit, is nowhere near as much as many of the rest of you has seen: I'm not even 25 yet), the less convinced I am that healthcare is defined by traditional capitalist norms. Or at least, the notion of competition and freedom of choice for the consumer feels largely absent. My choices as a consumer are entirely limited by what the insurers will pay for. My doctors' choices are largely restricted by what an insurer will reimburse them for.

My insurer will make these decisions based on what profits THEM and them alone. In a typical free market, this is fine and dandy if it weren't for the fact that it severely limits the choices of everyone else involved. And the inflation (which what's really killing the consumers) is entirely at the feet of the insurers: it's because of companies like United Healthcare demanding a 31% increase in permiums from a customer that's given them no worse than 19% return on investment... and the fact that NONE of their competitors are willing to do any better. If I were a paranoid man, I'd swear that this is a product of collusion (when really we're all just getting fleeced). Maybe I'm just rambling here, but that ****es me right the **** off.

I'm fine with people opposing the current health care bill. I'm even very hesitant to believe it will do any good. But I'm really starting to get annoyed when people suggest that any change will soil this pathetic little microcosm we've fashioned for ourselves. People are afraid of the government acting like a slow and tedious health insurance company, but how does that compare to the fear of the insurers inflating health care to point where its a privileged commodity- where medical treatment is a reward only for the super-rich, like a medical yacht club?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

So with that in mind, yes let's maintain our precious status quo and protect these poor corporations from <strike>their customers</strike> all those mean tyrants who want them to actually do something with all the money they're swallowing. While we're at it, let's throw a pity party for the late Charles Ponzi.

United is the devil...and i know someone who works for them so I am confident in saying that

That said, how does the Senate Bill help that in any way? Maybe it does and I am ill informed but last I checked the current Reform Bill that just was voted on isnt going to help curb costs or really cap how badly the insurers can fleece you. If I am wrong seriously explain how because I am looking for a reason to like what is going on without much luck!

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

United is the devil...and i know someone who works for them so I am confident in saying that

That said, how does the Senate Bill help that in any way? Maybe it does and I am ill informed but last I checked the current Reform Bill that just was voted on isnt going to help curb costs or really cap how badly the insurers can fleece you. If I am wrong seriously explain how because I am looking for a reason to like what is going on without much luck!

I'm fine with people opposing the current health care bill. I'm even very hesitant to believe it will do any good.

.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Yeah I read that after...I left the post in case someone else can answer it not you specifically.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Yeah I read that after...I left the post in case someone else can answer it not you specifically.

Fair enough. And, truth be told, I have absolutely no idea how the bill will possibly make any of us sleep better at night, so I'm interested in the answer to that question as well.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

So with that in mind, yes let's maintain our precious status quo and protect these poor corporations from <strike>their customers</strike> all those mean tyrants who want them to actually do something with all the money they're swallowing. While we're at it, let's throw a pity party for the late Charles Ponzi.

There are those that want to absolve the business sector and blame the government for everything, while not aware in this case that Congress made it possible not too long ago for VA hospitals to bill providers for services rendered if the veteran has private health care coverage, thereby reducing what taxpayers had to contribute. Of course working against that are UHC and their ilk, who will stop at nothing to delay paying legitimate medical claims in hopes they will eventually go away because of timely filing limits. Not to mention their negotiated coverage rates are abysmal. These a-holes as well as the pharmaceutical lobby are doing far more to screw over the taxpayer as it pertains to this industry than the government could even hope to do.

 

[Bill]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Doesn't strike you a little funny that they completely ignored the 1.3T in savings the next 10 years. Just glossed right over it.....almost like they had no answer for it, so just happened to stop riiiiigght before they got to that time period. Very interesting.

You're not seriously expecting anyone to believe that 1.3T savings estimate are you? Aside from the poor government track record for estimating program costs, especially entitlement programs, the current health reform bill's costs are very shaky. e.g. The 200B Doc Fix cost has been dropped from the bill and put in separate legislation; that's a nice shell game that conveniently allows Congress (via the CBO) to come up with 132B in projected savings after 10 years rather than just adding to the deficit. On an even larger scale, there are projected Medicare cuts of 400-500B in this bill that contribute to that 132B CBO projected deficit reduction for the first 10 years. Pretty much every time in the past when Congress has proposed legislation with Medicare cuts, they get cold feet when push comes to shove and those cuts get dropped or significantly reduced. The CBO has to use what Congress "plans" in its analysis. The reality of what Congress ultimately "does" typically is much different.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Fair enough. And, truth be told, I have absolutely no idea how the bill will possibly make any of us sleep better at night, so I'm interested in the answer to that question as well.

Well supposedly the 30milion people will sleep better with insurance. I'm not sure why they call it healthcare reform when we're just forcing people to get insurance with subsidy (add taxes and "savings" from insurance companies ). So instead of government price controls we'll have insurance companies promise to save (price control) XXbillion/yr to pay for this mandated insurance coverage.

I would think it'll be better if we just lowered medicaid/care age from 60? to 21 . most of the healthcare cost rises as you age and it seems to me the cost of adding younger people to medicaid/care wouldn't be that much compared to the current plan of forcing people into insurance coverage. Obviously this means we've gone commie and universal health care will be here when all the business will dump medical coverage for all employees except executives into the government plan.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

You're not seriously expecting anyone to believe that 1.3T savings estimate are you? Aside from the poor government track record for estimating program costs, especially entitlement programs, the current health reform bill's costs are very shaky. e.g. The 200B Doc Fix cost has been dropped from the bill and put in separate legislation; that's a nice shell game that conveniently allows Congress (via the CBO) to come up with 132B in projected savings after 10 years rather than just adding to the deficit. On an even larger scale, there are projected Medicare cuts of 400-500B in this bill that contribute to that 132B CBO projected deficit reduction for the first 10 years. Pretty much every time in the past when Congress has proposed legislation with Medicare cuts, they get cold feet when push comes to shove and those cuts get dropped or significantly reduced. The CBO has to use what Congress "plans" in its analysis. The reality of what Congress ultimately "does" typically is much different.

But this is a Dem Congress...surely they wouldn't fudge the numbers!

As long as health care is "for profit' we are all screwed. Its cool though, because I can get medication for depression, with a side effect that it may cause...DEPRESSION!

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

For every dollar our company spent on premiums last year, the insurance company (ok, I won't hide which one: United Healthcare) spent $0.84 on expenses. To make that clear: Every time United spent 84 cents on my company, they got a dollar in return. Adjust the percentages, and that's a little bit over 19% return on investment, minus overhead. Not bad, eh?

Well, sure - if, by "overhead" you mean "all of the expenses of running a health insurance company." You haven't accounted for any of their expenses at all. For every dollar you paid them, they sent $.84 to medical providers, leaving them only $.16 to pay their employees, pay their utilities, buy their computers, etc. By the time you subtract out all their expenses, they're easily down in the 5-10% ROI range, like most normal companies. If health insurance companies were really getting 19% "ROI" then we'd have more health insurance companies than we know what to do with. They're not.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

But at least you have the option of switching to another company. Imagine if this was happening and that was the only place you could turn to.

This is a false reassurance. They all pretty much feed off each other when they make the rules for what to cover or not. You do not have the option to switch anything if you are the employee. The employer is in control and they are also motivated by money. No one is motivated by what would be best for the medical needs of the person. Even the provider seeing the person needs to take into consideration what the person can afford. My usual speal is that I would recommend X as the most optimal care. Unfortunately this might not be covered. For this reason we could also try Z which may work and if not we will need to move to X and trry and work out the cost....

But this is Congress...surely they wouldn't fudge the numbers!

***As long as health care is "for profit' we are all screwed. Its cool though, because I can get medication for depression, with a side effect that it may cause...DEPRESSION!

FYP.
***this is true, true, true. Business is business. Interestingly United Healthcare is one of the top insurers to cover people the way they should at end of life. They cover Hospice longer, they cover other services that most insurers won't when it comes to home care. Of course they save a bundle by doing this as the person is not in the Unit sucking up $ waiting to die but for the families it is a great relief to have support when they are at home and want to be.

EOD has some excellent points as does Lynah. I still don't know what to think about the bill but I spent another day yesterday (I was probably a bit raw as I had been off for a week) trying to help people who were without coverage or going to have way less because policy changes at the New Year, position themselves in the best way possible so they could afford their insulin, their BP meds etc. These are not freeloaders. This medicine is necessary for them to stay out of the hospital. I am amazed that our country thinks this is OK.

There is no Status Quo, we are a sinking ship. I defy anyone to find a plan that kept the same coverage for the same rate. Personally our insurance has doubled for the cost outright, all the copayments have doubled, the coverage is cut. This double is from last June when it had also had a cost increase that was significant. This is State offered insurance (Mr works for the state and is in a union~required) and honestly, if it wasn't against the law, I might consider floating without and putting $ in an acct for if we need it. The coverage is so bad at this point it is almost worthless for the amount of $ we put in. The exclusions are ridiculous and I have no idea just how someone without a medical backround would be able to stratify the risk of chosing plan with one exclusion over the other.

 

[walrus]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

There is no Status Quo, we are a sinking ship. I defy anyone to find a plan that kept the same coverage for the same rate. Personally our insurance has doubled for the cost outright, all the copayments have doubled, the coverage is cut. This double is from last June when it had also had a cost increase that was significant. This is State offered insurance (Mr works for the state and is in a union~required) and honestly, if it wasn't against the law, I might consider floating without and putting $ in an acct for if we need it. The coverage is so bad at this point it is almost worthless for the amount of $ we put in. The exclusions are ridiculous and I have no idea just how someone without a medical backround would be able to stratify the risk of chosing plan with one exclusion over the other.

Its the same for all of us with insurance. I wonder if the solution is to just go back to paying cash for all medical needs

 

[leswp1]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Its the same for all of us with insurance. I wonder if the solution is to just go back to paying cash for all medical needs

There sure was less frivolous use of medical care when people had the 80-20. I don't ever remember seeing people because they blew their nose once or coughed once like I do now. They were also a bit more likely to do what they were told (take OTC meds, fluids, etc) rather than come again to see if this time they can get a prescription.

 

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Taxes anyone?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/23/pain-gain-health-care-overhaul/

 

[Rover]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

OMG!!!! People earning more than 250K individually or 500K as couples pay half a % more in Medicare/Medicaid taxes! Its the.....

OUTRAGE OF THE DAY!!!! I'M SO ANGRY!!! ARRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

There is no Status Quo, we are a sinking ship. I defy anyone to find a plan that kept the same coverage for the same rate. Personally our insurance has doubled for the cost outright, all the copayments have doubled, the coverage is cut. This double is from last June when it had also had a cost increase that was significant. This is State offered insurance (Mr works for the state and is in a union~required) and honestly, if it wasn't against the law, I might consider floating without and putting $ in an acct for if we need it. The coverage is so bad at this point it is almost worthless for the amount of $ we put in. The exclusions are ridiculous and I have no idea just how someone without a medical backround would be able to stratify the risk of chosing plan with one exclusion over the other.

But I thought Rover told us how awesome Mass Universal HC was and how it was justification for Reform...hmmmm

BTW when my insurance refused to pay for my physical I decided to drop my insurance. (I am paying the bill obviously) I don't get sick enough to justify the expense I got it so I could do routine maintenance stuff that I didn't want to have to pay out of pocket. since apparently I have to pay out of pocket even with the insurance it seems rather wasteful to keep it

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Health Care Reform - 1/6 of the Economy Up for Grabs

Double-counting used to project Medicare savings

Looks like somebody here might want to take another look at the "deficit reduction" again.