Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

On the contrary, I'm honored that you think such a benign statement on my part is worthy of the title "hate speech." I had no idea the bar was so incredibly low.

In your case we'd have to elevate the bar merely to get it to the level of the gutter!

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I'm glad we had this talk. But I'm compelled to point out that this last bit reminds me of the Facebook bumper sticker being posted by some of my righty friends: "Voting for Obama would be like backing up the Titanic to ram the iceberg again."

So long as voting for Romney would be trading deck chairs between the Titanic and the Lusitania, the analogies are dead on.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I'm glad we had this talk. But I'm compelled to point out that this last bit reminds me of the Facebook bumper sticker being posted by some of my righty friends: "Voting for Obama would be like backing up the Titanic to ram the iceberg again."

I'm reminded more of the saying attributed to Abe Lincoln: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!"

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I'm reminded more of the saying attributed to Abe Lincoln: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!"

As to what expectations were, I think Obama did a more devastating job of "fooling" liberals than conservatives as far as what he actually followed through on in office. We should be glad the most liberal of his constituencies are fuming that they still have to pay their mortgages etc., and give him another four years rather than take a chance on Mitt "Me First" Romney.
Although it's probably true that his views will continue to "evolve" if he gets the second term. But I'm not too worried about the consequences of that.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I'm reminded more of the saying attributed to Abe Lincoln: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!"

That's funny. I thought it was "Fool me once, shame on.........shame on you. Fool me..........You can't get fooled again."

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

As to what expectations were, I think Obama did a more devastating job of "fooling" liberals than conservatives as far as what he actually followed through on in office. We should be glad the most liberal of his constituencies are fuming that they still have to pay their mortgages etc., and give him another four years rather than take a chance on Mitt "Me First" Romney.
Although it's probably true that his views will continue to "evolve" if he gets the second term. But I'm not too worried about the consequences of that.

Well, remember the Republicans believed Obama was going to declare race war against whites while nationalizing all industry and putting Christians and gun owners in concentration camps run by lesbians. They were completely sane and prescient, and the things they say now should be taken seriously.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

That's funny. I thought it was "Fool me once, shame on.........shame on you. Fool me..........You can't get fooled again."

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Now that line really does seem to apply; had one said it in 2009 it would now seem prescient!

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Meanwhile, in actual elections: Cynthia Dill (D) and Charlie Summers (R) emerged from their primaries yesterday and will get to be the sacrificial lambs that get crucified by Angus King. King says he has not decided if he will caucus with the Democrats or the Republicans and will not decide or announce until he is in Washington. King wants to follow the example set by Scott Brown and Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts regarding Super PACs.

In a move that is totally shocking, the Democrat said she was open to the idea while the Republican Summers said it was political grandstanding to "distract Maine voters from the issues" primarily, the economy. I have to say I am totally stunned. Really.

 

[walrus]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Wow
Did Dill commit to the idea or is she just open to it? Which of the 3 has the most money? Angus by a wide margin, he can afford to run a campaign without any outside money.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Well, remember the Republicans believed Obama was going to declare race war against whites while nationalizing all industry and putting Christians and gun owners in concentration camps run by lesbians. They were completely sane and prescient, and the things they say now should be taken seriously.

He's much subtler than that.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

In the general sense, most mortgages are government-backed to some degree, given the massive amount owned by Fannie and Freddie.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/business/a-bailout-by-another-name.html

As of last September, only 2.5 percent of Fannie and Freddie mortgages were seriously delinquent, versus 7.2 percent for banks’ mortgages.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...fannie-and-freddie-led-mortgage-meltdown.html

The evidence indicates Fannie and Freddie contributed to the mortgage meltdown, but they played a secondary role to Wall Street. Wall Street firms and the mortgage lenders they bankrolled led the growth of the market for subprime loans and other risky mortgages.

Government data show Fannie and Freddie didn’t take the same risks that Wall Street’s mortgage-backed securities machine did. Mortgages financed by Wall Street from 2001 to 2008 were 4½ times more likely to be seriously delinquent than mortgages backed by Fannie and Freddie.

Tagging Fannie and Freddie as the primary suspects in the mortgage debacle diverts attention from bigger offenders and from policy decisions that helped create the climate for out-of-control lending.

Some 6 percent of Fannie- and Freddie-sponsored loans made during that span were 90 days late at some point in their history, according to Fannie and Freddie’s regulator, the Federal Housing Finance Agency. By contrast, the FHFA says, roughly 27 percent of loans that Wall Street folded into mortgage-backed investments were at least 90 days late at some point.
For example, just over 15 percent of Fannie- and Freddie-backed loans made in 2007 have been seriously delinquent, compared to nearly 42 percent of mortgages bankrolled by Wall Street, according to the FHFA.

Fannie and Freddie lost market share to Wall Street during the very time the mortgage market was spinning out of control. FHFA data shows Fannie and Freddie’s share of new mortgages fell from almost 55 percent in 2003 to less than 35 percent in 2006.

The loans that Fannie and Freddie purchased had consistently better risk characteristics than loans backed by Wall Street. For example, roughly 5 percent of loans originated from 2001 to 2008 and acquired by Fannie and Freddie had “FICO” credit scores of less than 620, a figure often used as a cutoff for labeling borrowers as subprime. More than 30 percent of Wall Street-bankrolled loans in the same period had FICO scores under 620.

n addition to buying loans directly, Fannie and Freddie also purchased mortgage-backed securities produced by Wall Street. From 2002 to 2007, Wall Street produced more than $3 trillion in securities backed by subprime mortgages and so-called Alt-A mortgages, another class of risky home loans. During that time, Fannie and Freddie purchased 23 percent of Wall Street securities underpinned by subprime and Alt-A loans, according to Inside Mortgage Finance.

That’s a big chunk, but still not enough to make the case that Fannie and Freddie were the main drivers of the growth in risky lending.

• As of September, Federal Reserve data show, 2.2 percent of Fannie- and Freddie-backed mortgages were in foreclosure, compared to 13 percent of all subprime mortgages, 11.3 percent of all Alt-A mortgages, and 2.9 percent of all prime mortgages.

Fannie and Freddie, in other words, have outperformed the overall mortgage market. If they had been the real ringleaders of the mortgage debacle, the numbers would tell a darker story.

I don't know why this has to be repeated so often (perhaps not directed at you Bakunin) but the following led to the housing collapse: large inflows of foreign funds during this time frame, the increase in loan incentives that encouraged borrowers (whom never should have bought in the first place) to believe they would be able to quickly refinance at more favorable terms later on, automated underwriting practices which didn't adequately analyze the ability of borrowers to repay, the inability of buyers to make their mortgage payments (due primarily to adjustable-rate mortgages resetting, borrowers overextending to mortgages more than 4x their annual income, the jobs market, predatory lending, and speculation), overbuilding during the boom period, risky mortgage products, self-regulating by banks, high personal and corporate debt levels (Americans were saving less than ever before in hour history during this time period and household debt skyrocketed), financial products that distributed and perhaps concealed the risk of mortgage default, bad monetary and housing policies, international trade imbalances, and inappropriate government regulation. Facts are lenders made loans that they knew borrowers could not afford. Christ, Google "Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission" for fun. Their findings will affirm that CRAs and F/F were not a significant factor in subprime lending nor the crisis.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Wow
Did Dill commit to the idea or is she just open to it? Which of the 3 has the most money? Angus by a wide margin, he can afford to run a campaign without any outside money.

She said she was open to it, although a Tweet sent out from a Democratic website (not affiliated with the Democratic Party or Dill's campaign) says the pledge as King proposed it would only work in a two-way race, such as Brown-Warren, not a three-way race. As for who has more money...I think the national Democratic and Republican Parties are going to dump a boatload of money into the race, and both Summers and Dill are going to be able to raise a ton of money in donations...it's still a race for an open US Senate seat for Pete's sake..both parties are going to want it.

As an aside: I get a lot of the Warren and Brown ads because I watch NESN and Comcast SportsNet and I can't recall seeing a negative ad. Forget about the SupePAC stuff, they seem to have taken the high road in advertising in general. Or maybe all their negative ads air on local TV...

 

[walrus]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

, and both Summers and Dill are going to be able to raise a ton of money in donations....

Out of state maybe, in state, I doubt it. Dill has no chance north of Brunswick, Summers looks good on tv but the only way he wins is if King and Dill split the vote. Angus wins easily.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Out of state maybe, in state, I doubt it. Dill has no chance north of Brunswick, Summers looks good on tv but the only way he wins is if King and Dill split the vote. Angus wins easily.

I think he does too, but both candidates are going to have streams of money flowing into the state - at least until both parties give it up as the money gets tight and they focus on seats they can actually win. Angus got 59% of the vote in 1998. I expect his floor will be around 45% which is more than enough to win the election. I think he could push 60% even in a 3-way race.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

So what has Angus King been doing with himself for the last...however long it's been since he was in the Blaine house?
He didn't just pop up and announce that he'd be taking the vacant Senate seat? Or was that pretty much it?

 

[walrus]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

So what has Angus King been doing with himself for the last...however long it's been since he was in the Blaine house?
He didn't just pop up and announce that he'd be taking the vacant Senate seat? Or was that pretty much it?

Taking federal dollars, making millions while ruining the landscape with giant taxpayer sucking windmills

 

[leswp1]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Taking federal dollars, making millions while ruining the landscape with giant taxpayer sucking windmills

Well, that is succinct.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Well, that is succinct.

He fails to point out that the proposed windmills are in that hive of activity, Roxbury, ME (without looking it up, can anyone tell us where that is?) and the 22 windmills will also produce energy. Also, the project is being funded not by taxpayers but those snobs at Yale University. The federal government is guaranteeing $102M of that financing.

But other than that, he was spot on...

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

He fails to point out that the proposed windmills are in that hive of activity, Roxbury, ME (without looking it up, can anyone tell us where that is?) and the 22 windmills will also produce energy. Also, the project is being funded not by taxpayers but those snobs at Yale University. The federal government is guaranteeing $102M of that financing.

But other than that, he was spot on...

Where is Maine, alex?

 

[joecct]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

He fails to point out that the proposed windmills are in that hive of activity, Roxbury, ME (without looking it up, can anyone tell us where that is?) and the 22 windmills will also produce energy. Also, the project is being funded not by taxpayers but those snobs at Yale University. The federal government is guaranteeing $102M of that financing.

But other than that, he was spot on...

Too bad it was not 38 Windmills....