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Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

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Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

FlagDUDE08 said:
If you want to teach about what can happen with sexual intercourse and prevention methods, there's nothing wrong with that. But, as Jack Webb always said, "Just the facts." Schools should not be forcing children into certain beliefs, nor forcing them into certain "preventive measures". Mandating vaccinations is no better than forcing abstinence-only education.
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I'm unaware of schools "forcing children into certain beliefs" at least as regards sex education. One would hope they're doing it every day on other matters, right? Democracy? Free speech? We don't let the little darlings make up their own minds about those things, do we?

I assume here your concern is primarily (exclusively?) with a vaccine against HPV. You don't want your kid vaccinated? Fine. Home school him and don't let him have any sexual contact with either sex. This Libertarian argument is quite passe these days, given mandatory seat belt and helmet laws, among other things.
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

joecct said:
With anyone but your spouse, yes.
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Uh, not even close. But thanks for playing.

If you don't think your parents or grandparents were getting it on before marriage back in the day, you either came from a very pious family or you never listened to your drunk uncles at a family reunion.
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

unofan said:
Uh, not even close. But thanks for playing.

If you don't think your parents or grandparents were getting it on before marriage back in the day, you either came from a very pious family or you never listened to your drunk uncles at a family reunion.
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In Michner's "Hawaii," I believe it was Whip Hoxworth whose grandfather took him to a fancy house on his 13th birthday. "Thanks, grandpa, it's just what I wanted."
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

unofan said:
Uh, not even close. But thanks for playing.

If you don't think your parents or grandparents were getting it on before marriage back in the day, you either came from a very pious family or you never listened to your drunk uncles at a family reunion.
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As to that, yes they were not. They were not children of the 60's.
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Old Pio said:
I'm unaware of schools "forcing children into certain beliefs" at least as regards sex education. One would hope they're doing it every day on other matters, right? Democracy? Free speech? We don't let the little darlings make up their own minds about those things, do we?

I assume here your concern is primarily (exclusively?) with a vaccine against HPV. You don't want your kid vaccinated? Fine. Home school him and don't let him have any sexual contact with either sex. This Libertarian argument is quite passe these days, given mandatory seat belt and helmet laws, among other things.
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Seat belts? Obviously you haven't been to New Hampshire. ;)

There are plenty of other cases, especially in New Jersey, where the government is stealing children on account of not giving children drugs.
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

FlagDUDE08 said:
Seat belts? Obviously you haven't been to New Hampshire. ;)

There are plenty of other cases, especially in New Jersey, where the government is stealing children on account of not giving children drugs.
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I'm confident "stealing" is innacurate. Bone head anti-vaccination parents, in addition to putting the health of their own kids at risk, are also putting the health of other kids at risk. That's too high a price to pay. Just as it's too high a price to pay to allow Christian Science parents to permit their kids to die from treatable conditions because they think the kid will get well through praying or some other religious practice, only. A kid cannot give informed consent to that nonsense. If an adult prefers to die from a bowel obstruction or hot appendix, that's his business. But leave the kids out of it.
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

FlagDUDE08 said:
False.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yroVu2W-5Ac" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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That presentation, while effective, leaves out more than it includes. It's interessting. But it's also obvious propaganda and as such is unconvincing. I'd be interested in knowing all the "facts" of this case, rather than the one sided recitation by mommy dearest and whoever is backing her play here.

Does the boy not have a father? Where is he in all of this? Mommy dearest didn't mention him. Could taking the boy out of the country without the legal authority to do so account for the kidnapping charges? Had she lost legal custody of the boy? If so, then she IS a kidnapper.
 
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Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Old Pio said:
In response to a diminishing number of requests, let me state my opinion on class room sex education: although it's efficacy may or may not justify it, I have no problem with it. I grew up in a household with a copy of the Kinsey Report on our bookshelves so I may not be typical. But any attempt to gloss over the "facts" of human sexuality, to focus on abstinence only, is, IMO a total waste of time. I have never been much of a believer in ignorance as a teaching tool.

To suggest that Miss Plimsol putting a condom on a cucumber will get the kids "thinking about it" is absurd. The kids are "thinking about it" (and far too many of them are doing something about it) 24/7. We live in a culture saturated with sex, and there's no going back. So clinical descriptions aren't going to impress youngsters who can spend all day long on porn sites if they want. Or who send "sexts" with their naughty bits exposed. It may just be, however, that some kids (who think they're so d*mn smart about everything) might actually learn something that could prevent a pregnancy or STD. The "values" abstinence only types want to instill, while important, are better left to family and clergy.

As a doctor's kid, I'm a big believer in vaccinations. The "high ignorance" campaign against vaccinations by people who really should know better, is disgraceful. And puts at risk kids other than the ones not vaccinated. I'm old enough to remember the feeling of what a blessing Dr. Salk had bestowed on humanity with his vaccine to prevent polio. My old man gave me my injections in the kitchen, in return for which, he allowed me to give him the shots. The horror of polio has faded. But think of a perfectly healthy kid going out for a day at the community pool. Coming home complaining of sniffles. Going to bed and waking up the next morning paralyzed. That was polio. And every parent, every parent, was terrified.
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The comments above do not fit into the box that I had placed you. Please get back into your assigned box.

Thank you. :p:D


Well said btw.
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Old Pio said:
That presentation, while effective, leaves out more than it includes. It's interessting. But it's also obvious propaganda and as such is unconvincing. I'd be interested in knowing all the "facts" of this case, rather than the one sided recitation by mommy dearest and whoever is backing her play here.

Does the boy not have a father? Where is he in all of this? Mommy dearest didn't mention him. Could taking the boy out of the country without the legal authority to do so account for the kidnapping charges? Had she lost legal custody of the boy? If so, then she IS a kidnapper.
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I must be off MY meds as I agree with you again that we're not getting the whole story. This doesn't add up. Must be more to it.

Find it REALLY hard to believe that the government would do all this just because the school board wants a kid on Ritalin.
 
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Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Gurtholfin said:
I must be off MY meds as I agree with you again that we're not getting the whole story. This doesn't add up. Must be more to it.

Find it REALLY hard to believe that the government would do all this just because the school board wants a kid on Ritalin.
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The part about the cops storming into her home "for no reason," knocking the snot out of her, and leaving those unusual "permanent" bruises doesn't pass the sniff test. They may have been serving a court order. And she may have gone ape sh*t. But it's not credible to suggest the cops in her town just randomly selected her for a beatdown on their way to Chick-fil-a.

On the other hand, you don't have to believe her story to realize too many kids are diagnosed with ADHD or ADD or whatever the h*ll they call it these days. In some (perhaps many, many) instances, you've got a kid who's a little antsy, needing to be challenged, and someone decides he's "sick" and should be medicated. While that might make things easier for faculty and staff, I doubt if it's always good for the kid. We see the same thing with autism. Rather than an enormous increase in the condition, I suspect we're seeing changes in diagnosis, often by people who have some sort of stake in inflating the figures.

Maybe we could work a deal like the old days with "adult" material and have any posts agreeing with me delivered in a "plain brown wrapper (like postal inspectors weren't hip to that jive). ;)
 
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Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Old Pio said:
As a doctor's kid, I'm a big believer in vaccinations. The "high ignorance" campaign against vaccinations by people who really should know better, is disgraceful. And puts at risk kids other than the ones not vaccinated. I'm old enough to remember the feeling of what a blessing Dr. Salk had bestowed on humanity with his vaccine to prevent polio. My old man gave me my injections in the kitchen, in return for which, he allowed me to give him the shots. The horror of polio has faded. But think of a perfectly healthy kid going out for a day at the community pool. Coming home complaining of sniffles. Going to bed and waking up the next morning paralyzed. That was polio. And every parent, every parent, was terrified.
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Well put. This is what I was trying to say earlier... as time goes on, there will be fewer and fewer people who saw first hand what some of these desieses can do, and thus less of an appreciation as to why the vaccines are so important.
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

ericredaxe said:
The abortion issue seems to go on... much much lower profile than the Akin story, but up here in New England we have a republican running for Sheriff who is saying he would arrest doctors who perform abortions and would not rule out the use of deadly force to prevent one from happening.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/GOP-candidate-says-arrest-doctors-who-do-abortions-3807710.php
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Awesome. Hope he wins.
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

ericredaxe said:
The abortion issue seems to go on... much much lower profile than the Akin story, but up here in New England we have a republican running for Sheriff who is saying he would arrest doctors who perform abortions and would not rule out the use of deadly force to prevent one from happening.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/GOP-candidate-says-arrest-doctors-who-do-abortions-3807710.php
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As I say, Akin is not an isolated incident. He represents mainstream social conservatism.
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Old Pio said:
This Libertarian argument is quite passe these days, given mandatory seat belt and helmet laws, among other things.
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You assume that the seat belt and helmet laws were passed primarily to protect the wearers. I had thought so too, until I spoke to an emergency responder who was quite heated on this subject.

"You cannot imagine how traumatizing it can be for us to have to treat these people! Seat belt and helmet laws also protect us, the responders, from the shock and trauma of dealing with gruesome injuries."
 
Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Slap Shot said:
Spoken like someone that's never had it. My wife and I stopped having children 8 years ago - the sex didn't stop.
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Spoken like a teenage girl on Maury. Are you going to now boast for four pages about how you can stick your hoo-hoo-dilly into your wife's cha-cha all while yelling "YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!!"? :p
 
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