Ebola - all or nothing?

[Patman]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Oh please. Not everyone is trying to deal with this in a reasonable manner. People who spread panic and misinformation are certainly the opposition.

For instance someone who tries to insinuate that this is a worldwide pandemic on par with say, the Spanish Flu outbreak during World War I, isn't trying to help solve a crisis but fan the flames of fear.

It's hard to be "Politics First" with this when the ideological boundaries have already been established. Either you trust science or you think it's a conspiracy. I trust science.

Further, I would define people who WANT Kaci Hickox to get Ebola, or have made death threats against her, as "the opposition." Do you believe either is a reasonable reaction?

Lastly, I am not the one bringing up 6000 years in my posts. Thank you for not confusing us.

No, you trust authority. As a scientist I see a lot of "lack of data" and gaps in information... and a whole lot of unearned "certainty". I, personally, tend to act with an over abundance of caution, this is my bias... but the uncertainties remain.

edit: and you know exactly what huskyfan meant. That we're all politically aligned knuckledraggers who are trying to create our own politically aligned version of science because we don't like or don't trust the scientists in power.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

edit: and you know exactly what huskyfan meant. That we're all politically aligned knuckledraggers who are trying to create our own politically aligned version of science because we don't like or don't trust the scientists in power.

Are you kidding? I embrace the Vatican's leadership on this issue.

Thus, this work of creation has been going on for centuries and centuries, millennia and millennia until it has become what we know today, because God is not a demiurge or wizard but the Creator who gives being to all entities. The beginning of the world was not a work of chaos that has some other origin, but it derived directly from a supreme principle which creates by love. The Big Bang, which currently appears to explain the origin of the world, does not contradict the intervention of a divine creator but demands it. The evolution of nature is not inconsistent with the notion of Creation because evolution presupposes the creation of beings that evolve...

The scientist must be moved by the confidence that nature conceals, in its evolutionary mechanisms, potential that our intelligence and freedom can discover and implement in order to develop the design of the Creator. So, no matter how limited, the action of man partakes of the power of God and is able to build a world fit for his dual life, bodily and spiritual, to build a humane world for all human beings and not for a group or class of privileged people.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Chicken dinner.

Oh the ironing.

So the fact that something has never been a problem in the past is conclusive proof that it can't possibly be a problem in the future, regardless of whether we take any precautions at all. That's great to know, and will save us lots of effort in so many ways.!

So the fact that there have been 2 deaths so far in the U.S. despite the virus existing for years, that 99% of all other cases have occurred thousands of miles away, and that there hasn't been a catastrophic pandemic in the United States since the Asian Flu in the 50's means we need to run around with our heads cut off? We are "taking efforts" btw, enough with the FoxNews hand-wringing.

FF is a maroon and you would be wise to ignore his tripe.

 

[huskyfan]

Oh please. Not everyone is trying to deal with this in a reasonable manner. People who spread panic and misinformation are certainly the opposition.

For instance someone who tries to insinuate that this is a worldwide pandemic on par with say, the Spanish Flu outbreak during World War I, isn't trying to help solve a crisis but fan the flames of fear.

It's hard to be "Politics First" with this when the ideological boundaries have already been established. Either you trust science or you think it's a conspiracy. I trust science.

Further, I would define people who WANT Kaci Hickox to get Ebola, or have made death threats against her, as "the opposition." Do you believe either is a reasonable reaction?

Lastly, I am not the one bringing up 6000 years in my posts. Thank you for not confusing us.

who exactly is spreading panic? who claimed this was similar to the Spanish flu outbreak? Kaci Hickox has received death threats? people want her to get ebola? I am missing out on the news. everything I've heard from the CDC, the President, the Governors, medical experts, scientists and military all seem to want to reassure us. any reference to the Spanish flu is obviously misguided because of the differences in transmission modes. only a psychopath or sicko would wish this horrific illness on someone. surely you dont put someone who disagrees with you politically in that category?! are there actually people in Maine hoping she comes down with it? ouch.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

who exactly is spreading panic? who claimed this was similar to the Spanish flu outbreak? Kaci Hickox has received death threats? people want her to get ebola? I am missing out on the news. everything I've heard from the CDC, the President, the Governors, medical experts, scientists and military all seem to want to reassure us. any reference to the Spanish flu is obviously misguided because of the differences in transmission modes. only a psychopath or sicko would wish this horrific illness on someone. surely you dont put someone who disagrees with you politically in that category?! are there actually people in Maine hoping she comes down with it? ouch.

First, FF is referencing the Spanish Flu every time he mentions 1917.

Yes, Kaci has received death threats. She is now receiving police protection. If you look at the comments sections of many Facebook threads about the story, you will see many people who want her (and her boyfriend) to catch the disease and die.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Oh the ironing.



So the fact that there have been 2 deaths so far in the U.S. despite the virus existing for years, that 99% of all other cases have occurred thousands of miles away, and that there hasn't been a catastrophic pandemic in the United States since the Asian Flu in the 50's means we need to run around with our heads cut off? We are "taking efforts" btw, enough with the FoxNews hand-wringing.

FF is a maroon and you would be wise to ignore his tripe.

I assure you that think I what I think despite FF and FoxNews, not because of them. I don't condone the death threats and all that other garbage that Priceless loves to point to. I specifically said that school board that didn't let the girl come to class because she had traveled to (Texas? Nigeria? I forgot which) were idiots. I am in no way in favor of "running around with our heads cut off."

The fact is that two of our ("best trained in the world!") healthcare workers managed to pick up the virus in Texas, despite access to excellent PPE and a significant amount of medical training (not trying to start an argument about whether the hospital should have done more - I'm just saying that those nurses have had more training than your average Joe on the street). I'm sure that whatever the contact they had with an infected bodily fluid was minimal and short in duration - and yet they still caught the disease. This tells me all I need to know about the transmissibility of this nasty little bug. If those trained healthcare workers can catch it that easily, how much easier would it be for people in the general public (who don't wash their hands, don't cover their mouths when coughing, might have suppressed immune systems, etc) to do so?

Opponents of any sort of quarantine procedures love to claim, "but it's not transmissible if you're asymptomatic." Do you really think that the instant that someone becomes able to transmit the disease, their temperature immediately spikes to a noticeable level or they get an immediate headache? Are you 100% certain that this occurs in 100% of the cases? Diseases can express symptoms very differently in different people - I remain unconvinced that our scientists really know enough about this disease to say, "In every single case, we are 100% confident that the person will start to exhibit noticeable symptoms well *before* they are able to transmit the disease."

I just don't see the grievous harm being done if we ask people who we KNOW have been working with ebola patients in less-than-ideal 3rd world conditions to take a little break when they get home and avoid any risk of letting ebola into the general US population. Those who think it can't happen here are displaying an unfortunately typical level of hubris and arrogance. The earth belongs to the microbes. The rest of us are along for the ride, so a little more humility is in order.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

I assure you that think I what I think despite FF and FoxNews, not because of them. I don't condone the death threats and all that other garbage that Priceless loves to point to. I specifically said that school board that didn't let the girl come to class because she had traveled to (Texas? Nigeria? I forgot which) were idiots. I am in no way in favor of "running around with our heads cut off."

The fact is that two of our ("best trained in the world!") healthcare workers managed to pick up the virus in Texas, despite access to excellent PPE and a significant amount of medical training (not trying to start an argument about whether the hospital should have done more - I'm just saying that those nurses have had more training than your average Joe on the street). I'm sure that whatever the contact they had with an infected bodily fluid was minimal and short in duration - and yet they still caught the disease. This tells me all I need to know about the transmissibility of this nasty little bug. If those trained healthcare workers can catch it that easily, how much easier would it be for people in the general public (who don't wash their hands, don't cover their mouths when coughing, might have suppressed immune systems, etc) to do so?

Opponents of any sort of quarantine procedures love to claim, "but it's not transmissible if you're asymptomatic." Do you really think that the instant that someone becomes able to transmit the disease, their temperature immediately spikes to a noticeable level or they get an immediate headache? Are you 100% certain that this occurs in 100% of the cases? Diseases can express symptoms very differently in different people - I remain unconvinced that our scientists really know enough about this disease to say, "In every single case, we are 100% confident that the person will start to exhibit noticeable symptoms well *before* they are able to transmit the disease."

I just don't see the grievous harm being done if we ask people who we KNOW have been working with ebola patients in less-than-ideal 3rd world conditions to take a little break when they get home and avoid any risk of letting ebola into the general US population. Those who think it can't happen here are displaying an unfortunately typical level of hubris and arrogance. The earth belongs to the microbes. The rest of us are along for the ride, so a little more humility is in order.

Two deaths. Two. Deaths. Two. In a country with 300 million people and entry points that are a sieve.

Take a, "a little break"? That's a nice way of putting it btw.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

I assure you that think I what I think despite FF and FoxNews, not because of them. I don't condone the death threats and all that other garbage that Priceless loves to point to. I specifically said that school board that didn't let the girl come to class because she had traveled to (Texas? Nigeria? I forgot which) were idiots. I am in no way in favor of "running around with our heads cut off."

The fact is that two of our ("best trained in the world!") healthcare workers managed to pick up the virus in Texas, despite access to excellent PPE and a significant amount of medical training (not trying to start an argument about whether the hospital should have done more - I'm just saying that those nurses have had more training than your average Joe on the street). I'm sure that whatever the contact they had with an infected bodily fluid was minimal and short in duration - and yet they still caught the disease. This tells me all I need to know about the transmissibility of this nasty little bug. If those trained healthcare workers can catch it that easily, how much easier would it be for people in the general public (who don't wash their hands, don't cover their mouths when coughing, might have suppressed immune systems, etc) to do so?

Opponents of any sort of quarantine procedures love to claim, "but it's not transmissible if you're asymptomatic." Do you really think that the instant that someone becomes able to transmit the disease, their temperature immediately spikes to a noticeable level or they get an immediate headache? Are you 100% certain that this occurs in 100% of the cases? Diseases can express symptoms very differently in different people - I remain unconvinced that our scientists really know enough about this disease to say, "In every single case, we are 100% confident that the person will start to exhibit noticeable symptoms well *before* they are able to transmit the disease."

I just don't see the grievous harm being done if we ask people who we KNOW have been working with ebola patients in less-than-ideal 3rd world conditions to take a little break when they get home and avoid any risk of letting ebola into the general US population. Those who think it can't happen here are displaying an unfortunately typical level of hubris and arrogance. The earth belongs to the microbes. The rest of us are along for the ride, so a little more humility is in order.

If GI's in the affected countries face mandatory quarantine when they return home, why not civilian health care workers? What possible explanation can scientifically justify those disparate positions?

 

[LynahFan]

Two deaths. Two. Deaths. Two. In a country with 300 million people and entry points that are a sieve.

And how many quarantines, out of a population of 300 million? Rate-wise, 0 = 0.

Take a, "a little break"? That's a nice way of putting it btw.

I'm half expecting that the next thing you'll type is, "You know who else liked house arrests? HITLER, THAT'S WHO!"

 

[joecct]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

And how many quarantines, out of a population of 300 million? Rate-wise, 0 = 0.

I'm half expecting that the next thing you'll type is, "You know who else liked house arrests? HITLER, THAT'S WHO!"

Closer to home, you could try DHS.

 

[joecct]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Run for the hills, Martha! Ebola is coming! Ebola is coming!
The headline writer sure knows how to sell papers.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/e...ario-130-cases-by-end-of-2014/article/2555593

Cripes!

Next we'll see "Sun will devour Earth"

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

And how many quarantines, out of a population of 300 million? Rate-wise, 0 = 0.

I'm half expecting that the next thing you'll type is, "You know who else liked house arrests? HITLER, THAT'S WHO!"

How many quarantines were necessary? And way to go Godwin on the bit.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Did no one else notice Fishy quoted himself and responded?

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Did no one else notice Fishy quoted himself and responded?

I noticed, chuckled, and left it alone.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

And how many quarantines, out of a population of 300 million? Rate-wise, 0 = 0.

I'm half expecting that the next thing you'll type is, "You know who else liked house arrests? HITLER, THAT'S WHO!"

I'm of two minds here. Cable news, lead by CNN of course, have been shamelessly hyping Ebola. Just as they do with any health "scare." Swine flu, bird flu, SARS and all the rest. So far, only one person has died of Ebola in the United States. And during that same period I'd imagine at least one American has been killed by an anvil falling out of a window.

Even so, this is a serious illness and despite our extensive medical infrastructure, it seems prudent to take modest steps to prevent additional infections. What's been puzzling has been the attitude of some of the returning aid workers, who've been less than candid when questioned about their potential exposure to the disease. The NYC doctor evidently lied, omitting his bowling and subway trips. Nancy Snyderman figures her soup is more important than the potential health risks to those she comes in contact with. And our nurse friend from Maine. What accounts for this attitude? Arrogance? A sense of entitlement because of their altruism?

Certainly the members of our military are as altruistic in this regard as any of the civilian health care workers. And these GIs face mandatory quarantine. Why not the civilians, who present exactly the same potential health threat? To me, quarantine amounts to erring on the side of caution, nothing more. And will impact a tiny segment of the population. And there's no stigma attached. How could there be? We're still learning about Ebola. For those with long memories, remember in the early days of AIDS, one of the "at risk" groups was Jamaicans? Turns out they were vulnerable for exactly the same reasons and under the same circumstances as everyone else. Their ethnicity had nothing to do with it. But for quite some time Jamaicans were believed to have some unique vulnerability to the condition.

While our Maine nurse (and presumably others) are congratulating themselves on protecting their "rights," what about the rights of the people in their communities to be protected from the chance of exposure (no matter how slight) to a deadly illness? Protection that comes from an admittedly inconvenient three week quarantine. Not exactly three weeks in solitary at Alcatraz but still a pain in the a*s. I get a serious whiff of elitism here. And while I'm not losing any sleep over Ebola, I'm still not convinced by the bland assurances of people who are putting politics ahead of science.

So far, no satisfactory explanation for why one group of people fighting Ebola faces mandatory quarantine while another group fighting the disease doesn't.

 

[Patman]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Closer to home, you could try DHS.

they're more interested in making sure you don't export and reimport a personal set of bagpipes

 

[Priceless]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Meanwhile, a restaurant worker in Cumberland County (easily the most populous in the state) may have exposed diners to Hepatitis A. Under state law, this individual can not be identified. However, the government refuses to say what restaurant it was or even what town it was in. When WCSH reporter Don Carrigan went to the DHHS and requested more information, and an interview with someone, he was flatly denied on both counts. They wouldn't even talk about it. So anyone who wasn't vaccinated and ate at a restaurant in Cumberland County may have Hep A. Good to know. The governor is blaming this on illegals, which is convenient since no one can identify the individual.

Should we close every restaurant in the county and quarantine all the workers to be safe?

 

[Patman]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Meanwhile, a restaurant worker in Cumberland County (easily the most populous in the state) may have exposed diners to Hepatitis A. Under state law, this individual can not be identified. However, the government refuses to say what restaurant it was or even what town it was in. When WCSH reporter Don Carrigan went to the DHHS and requested more information, and an interview with someone, he was flatly denied on both counts. They wouldn't even talk about it. So anyone who wasn't vaccinated and ate at a restaurant in Cumberland County may have Hep A. Good to know. The governor is blaming this on illegals, which is convenient since no one can identify the individual.

Should we close every restaurant in the county and quarantine all the workers to be safe?

sure, why not. I think its only fair to then kill the people who come in to sanitize the building and then encase the whole thing in a plastic that takes 500,000 years to degrade. After that, we encase that with some form of hard enamel.

 

[joecct]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Meanwhile, a restaurant worker in Cumberland County (easily the most populous in the state) may have exposed diners to Hepatitis A. Under state law, this individual can not be identified. However, the government refuses to say what restaurant it was or even what town it was in. When WCSH reporter Don Carrigan went to the DHHS and requested more information, and an interview with someone, he was flatly denied on both counts. They wouldn't even talk about it. So anyone who wasn't vaccinated and ate at a restaurant in Cumberland County may have Hep A. Good to know. The governor is blaming this on illegals, which is convenient since no one can identify the individual.

Should we close every restaurant in the county and quarantine all the workers to be safe?

If somebody has VD and spreads it around, do they have to ID Patient Zero?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Ebola - all or nothing?

Meanwhile, a restaurant worker in Cumberland County (easily the most populous in the state) may have exposed diners to Hepatitis A. Under state law, this individual can not be identified. However, the government refuses to say what restaurant it was or even what town it was in. When WCSH reporter Don Carrigan went to the DHHS and requested more information, and an interview with someone, he was flatly denied on both counts. They wouldn't even talk about it. So anyone who wasn't vaccinated and ate at a restaurant in Cumberland County may have Hep A. Good to know. The governor is blaming this on illegals, which is convenient since no one can identify the individual.

Should we close every restaurant in the county and quarantine all the workers to be safe?

Apples and oranges. The subject is Ebola. Why not try sticking to it?