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Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Dirty said:
Yes, yes I do. And I demand reparations. Every current and former UMD student should give me $100 at the F5.
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Eh, that or a beer right??

Golden Tuuk said:
It happened, I was there. End of story.


What's worse than an obnoxious and arrogant, person? One that won't shut the hell up! You deserve a ten day vacation from your keyboard. No, actually everyone that visits this site deserves that.
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Yeah, but that would mean we would all like have to do work and shibby. That's not fun at all.

Don't mind me, just making sure I got a good seat for this shibby show!!! ;)
 
Stauber1 said:
It is historical fact that smallpox decimated the Native American population. There is AMPLE evidence that the strategy of intentionally infecting the Native American population in certain areas of North America with smallpox was, at the least, pursued. There is strong implicating evidence that it was carried out.
All this evidence concerns British officials and dates to a period before the American Revolution or an American government.

So, technically speaking Old Pio, you have a point that there is no evidence that the United States government intentionally distributed infected blankets. However, no one in this thread made any mention of the U.S. Army, the American government or "white folk" (until you did so). Your eagerness to turn this issue into one about slander directed toward the early U.S. Army and American government is interesting to say the least, and at most belies how your own mixed-up perceptions of some sort of overt and unique persecution being experience by white people in today's America infests your general world view.

At any rate, the implication of the cheer was clear.

So to answer your original question: in this instance, no it does not matter that an academic researcher fabricated and/or assumed information regarding the use of "smallpox blankets." The implication of the cheer is what is offensive; the validity of the research surrounding a specific part of the history is meaningless to this discussion.
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Thank You :)
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Stauber1 said:
It is historical fact that smallpox decimated the Native American population. There is AMPLE evidence that the strategy of intentionally infecting the Native American population in certain areas of North America with smallpox was, at the least, pursued. There is strong implicating evidence that it was carried out.
All this evidence concerns British officials and dates to a period before the American Revolution or an American government.

So, technically speaking Old Pio, you have a point that there is no evidence that the United States government intentionally distributed infected blankets. However, no one in this thread made any mention of the U.S. Army, the American government or "white folk" (until you did so). Your eagerness to turn this issue into one about slander directed toward the early U.S. Army and American government is interesting to say the least, and at most belies how your own mixed-up perceptions of some sort of overt and unique persecution being experience by white people in today's America infests your general world view.

At any rate, the implication of the cheer was clear.

So to answer your original question: in this instance, no it does not matter that an academic researcher fabricated and/or assumed information regarding the use of "smallpox blankets." The implication of the cheer is what is offensive; the validity of the research surrounding a specific part of the history is meaningless to this discussion.
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Ward Churchill "academic researcher?" For cripes sake he was chairman of a department at a flagship state universisty. Why intentionaly diminish has stature? The dark heart of every conspiracy theory is the inference of subjective motivation from objective result, post hoc ergo propter hoc. And that's what you're arguing here.

Why use weasel words? The strategy of deliberately using infected blankes was "pursued?" What does that mean? Please define "strong implicating evidence." Is it, for instance, documentary? Or unsubstantiated gossip?

The writing of history is a consensus activity. And just as the consensus of history is that Oswald shot JFK and there was no conspiracy, similarly the consensus of history is this event that is so much a part of what you "know" about American history is a lie.

Indians were decimated by small pox? And this is "proof" it was done deliberately? I suppose it would be useless to point out, again, that I don't approve of the cheers. But that's not really your concern, is it? What you're concerned about is the everyone be properly disgusted with a mythical episode. If you keep repeating a historical lie often enough and loud enough (Jews stabbed Germany in the back, for instance) some credulous people will doubtless begin to believe it.
 
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Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Slap Shot said:
No, it's a case of, "tPB couldn't help themselves because UND had it coming" (i.e.) "No means yes". Come you're a bright girl. :)
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But UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM.

Is that clear enough? And I'm a woman, not a girl.

And Dude Love, the dog sign was taken away at tDECC, not MacInnes, nor did I care that Mr. Sunshine reported the sign, it was just part of the story, and the point was that the sign wasn't offensive (except to one jackwagon), but if I made the sign about UND's mascot it takes on a whole different meaning. There's a big difference between chanting, say, "neuter the Huskies" and chanting "Castrate the Sioux." (which, to my knowledge, has never been done, but is an example of a chant done for dog mascot schools that would have a human equivalent, unlike "smallpox blanket" which makes no sense in relation to dogs.) Same chant, same literal meaning, but one is exponentially more offensive than the other, simply because it involves a human. But people are so desensitized to things like Chief Wahoo, the Washington Redskins, the Atlanta Braves tomahawk chop, etc, that they're not even looked at as being offensive. There's this huge disconnect created by these mascots and nicknames and "traditions." Would a Washington Redskins fan with an Ojibwe friend ever refer to their friend as a redskin? I sure as hell hope not. Then they go to a game or talk about their team and throw the word around like it is nothing, it's just normal. Would a tUMD student in an American history class cheer when the teacher lectured about the Trail of Tears? Hell no. (Can't wait for Dirty to quote only that part and say Yes!) But then they go to a hockey game and chant "smallpox blankets" or "we stole your land!" And anyone who has ever chanted "Sioux Suck!" or "F the Sioux" (and it is impossible that there is no one in this thread that hasn't) is essentially acting the same way, watered down. But I don't believe anyone in this thread (possibly Old Pio) would go up to Fort Totten and yell "SIOUX SUCK!!!!" Again, it's that disconnect. These mascots and nicknames normalize racism so much that people don't even realize they are doing it. It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't absolve anyone from thinking for themselves, but the nickname is contributing to the problem and it needs to go. It won't create racial harmony. (In fact, getting rid of the nickname has created its own racist acts, as in the photo I posted below, or this.) It's not going to work any miracles or anything. But at least it will be a step in the right direction.

Now, everyone, don't all flail at your keyboards at once in an attempt to prove yourselves wrong, yet again. You'll all get a turn to sputter and bluster and rail at me in vain.
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Old Pio said:
Ward Churchill "academic researcher?" For cripes sake he was chairman of a department at a flagship state universisty. Why intentionaly diminish has stature? The dark heart of every conspiracy theory is the inference of subjective motivation from objective result, post hoc ergo propter hoc. And that's what you're arguing here.

The writing of history is a consensus activity. And just as the consensus of history is that Oswald shot JFK and there was no conspiracy, similarly the consensus of history is this event that is so much a part of what you "know" about American history is a lie.

Indians were decimated by small pox? And this is "proof" it was done deliberately? I suppose it would be useless to point out, again, that I don't approve of the cheers. But that's not really your concern, is it? What you're concerned about is the everyone be properly disgusted with a mythical episode. If you keep repeating a historical lie often enough and loud enough (Jews stabbed Germany in the back, for instance) some credulous people will doubtless begin to believe it.
Click to expand...
I think the horse is dead. Actually, I know it is, because I beat it too, and it was already dead then.
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
But UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM.

Is that clear enough? And I'm a woman, not a girl.

And Dude Love, the dog sign was taken away at tDECC, not MacInnes, nor did I care that Mr. Sunshine reported the sign, it was just part of the story, and the point was that the sign wasn't offensive (except to one jackwagon), but if I made the sign about UND's mascot it takes on a whole different meaning. There's a big difference between chanting, say, "neuter the Huskies" and chanting "Castrate the Sioux." (which, to my knowledge, has never been done, but is an example of a chant done for dog mascot schools that would have a human equivalent, unlike "smallpox blanket" which makes no sense in relation to dogs.) Same chant, same literal meaning, but one is exponentially more offensive than the other, simply because it involves a human. But people are so desensitized to things like Chief Wahoo, the Washington Redskins, the Atlanta Braves tomahawk chop, etc, that they're not even looked at as being offensive. There's this huge disconnect created by these mascots and nicknames and "traditions." Would a Washington Redskins fan with an Ojibwe friend ever refer to their friend as a redskin? I sure as hell hope not. Then they go to a game or talk about their team and throw the word around like it is nothing, it's just normal. Would a tUMD student in an American history class cheer when the teacher lectured about the Trail of Tears? Hell no. (Can't wait for Dirty to quote only that part and say Yes!) But then they go to a hockey game and chant "smallpox blankets" or "we stole your land!" And anyone who has ever chanted "Sioux Suck!" or "F the Sioux" (and it is impossible that there is no one in this thread that hasn't) is essentially acting the same way, watered down. But I don't believe anyone in this thread (possibly Old Pio) would go up to Fort Totten and yell "SIOUX SUCK!!!!" Again, it's that disconnect. These mascots and nicknames normalize racism so much that people don't even realize they are doing it. It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't absolve anyone from thinking for themselves, but the nickname is contributing to the problem and it needs to go. It won't create racial harmony. (In fact, getting rid of the nickname has created its own racist acts, as in the photo I posted below, or this.) It's not going to work any miracles or anything. But at least it will be a step in the right direction.

Now, everyone, don't all flail at your keyboards at once in an attempt to prove yourselves wrong, yet again. You'll all get a turn to sputter and bluster and rail at me in vain.
Click to expand...

So you'd be fine with a "drunken Micks" or "potato famine" chant. Right?
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
But UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM. UND IS NOT THE VICTIM.

Is that clear enough? And I'm a woman, not a girl.

And Dude Love, the dog sign was taken away at tDECC, not MacInnes, nor did I care that Mr. Sunshine reported the sign, it was just part of the story, and the point was that the sign wasn't offensive (except to one jackwagon), but if I made the sign about UND's mascot it takes on a whole different meaning. There's a big difference between chanting, say, "neuter the Huskies" and chanting "Castrate the Sioux." (which, to my knowledge, has never been done, but is an example of a chant done for dog mascot schools that would have a human equivalent, unlike "smallpox blanket" which makes no sense in relation to dogs.) Same chant, same literal meaning, but one is exponentially more offensive than the other, simply because it involves a human. But people are so desensitized to things like Chief Wahoo, the Washington Redskins, the Atlanta Braves tomahawk chop, etc, that they're not even looked at as being offensive. There's this huge disconnect created by these mascots and nicknames and "traditions." Would a Washington Redskins fan with an Ojibwe friend ever refer to their friend as a redskin? I sure as hell hope not. Then they go to a game or talk about their team and throw the word around like it is nothing, it's just normal. Would a tUMD student in an American history class cheer when the teacher lectured about the Trail of Tears? Hell no. (Can't wait for Dirty to quote only that part and say Yes!) But then they go to a hockey game and chant "smallpox blankets" or "we stole your land!" And anyone who has ever chanted "Sioux Suck!" or "F the Sioux" (and it is impossible that there is no one in this thread that hasn't) is essentially acting the same way, watered down. But I don't believe anyone in this thread (possibly Old Pio) would go up to Fort Totten and yell "SIOUX SUCK!!!!" Again, it's that disconnect. These mascots and nicknames normalize racism so much that people don't even realize they are doing it. It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't absolve anyone from thinking for themselves, but the nickname is contributing to the problem and it needs to go. It won't create racial harmony. (In fact, getting rid of the nickname has created its own racist acts, as in the photo I posted below, or this.) It's not going to work any miracles or anything. But at least it will be a step in the right direction.

Now, everyone, don't all flail at your keyboards at once in an attempt to prove yourselves wrong, yet again. You'll all get a turn to sputter and bluster and rail at me in vain.
Click to expand...

So basically...it's OK because it was the Bulldog fans who did it? Is that the point?
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

RWD is trolling for a reaction people. She (like Old Pio) is a Fighting Illini alum. I can't believe the rest of you haven't caught on (except Dirty).
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

(Stolen from BulldogNation on tPB)

"Kill, maim, pillage, burn
Kill, maim, pillage, burn, eat babies,
Sioux babies."

How is this not racist? Gopher fans?
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

MinnesotaNorthStar said:
RWD is trolling for a reaction people. She (like Old Pio) is a Fighting Illini alum. I can't believe the rest of you haven't caught on (except Dirty).
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I won't say what I think, because I want an honest answer to my honest question. Yet, she will not respond. I know her ways. I know her methods.
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
And anyone who has ever chanted "Sioux Suck!" or "F the Sioux" (and it is impossible that there is no one in this thread that hasn't) is essentially acting the same way, watered down.
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I agree with you that these chants are extremely tasteless, and it drives me nuts how much student sections in general (and my school's is no exception) do this stuff. But it is NOT the same.

It is plenty believable that "Sioux Suck" or "CC Sucks" or "F the Gophers" or anything like that is ONLY about the team on the ice, or possibly the student body of the school. As an example. There are few people who post such loathsome anti-DU diatribes as cctig, but when you meet him in person, he's a really nice guy, and it's clear that that stuff isn't personal and is intended in fun. We have, in fact, each bought each other a beer this season.

Whether you want to believe that the government infected people intentionally or not, whether you want to call the huge number of Natives who were killed by the Army an attempt at genocide or not, I just can't take chanting "smallpox blanket" as anything other than making light of a period of time during which an astounding number of people were murdered in cold blood because of the color of their skin. Regardless of the veracity of the stories, regardless of the intellectual dishonesty of one particular teller of those stories, I just can't find the fun in that. I will admit to being a wet blanket when it comes to the annihilation of entire races of people, but I hope that I am not alone in that.
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

MinnesotaNorthStar said:
RWD is trolling for a reaction people. She (like Old Pio) is a Fighting Illini alum. I can't believe the rest of you haven't caught on (except Dirty).
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Shhhh..... Be quiet!! I wanna be around for when the Moderator comes in and starts dropping tactical nukes in here. ;)
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

What part of "It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't absolve anyone from thinking for themselves, but the nickname is contributing to the problem and it needs to go" was unclear?
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

MinnesotaNorthStar said:
RWD is trolling for a reaction people. She (like Old Pio) is a Fighting Illini alum. I can't believe the rest of you haven't caught on (except Dirty).
Click to expand...

Jeez, why don't you at least try to be accurate. I spent my freshman year at Illinois and got my degree from DU. Okay? Since DU doesn't have football, I force myself to root for Illinois even though I know I'll be frustrated and disappointed. I'm not sure why my academic history is relevant, but you evidently place great importance on it. And I've made no secret of the fact, in dozens of posts, what a miscarriage of justice it was for the NC$$ to force the termination of Chief Illiniwek. Again, what's the relevance, Sherlock?
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
What part of "It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't absolve anyone from thinking for themselves, but the nickname is contributing to the problem and it needs to go" was unclear?
Click to expand...

Maybe the Bulldog fans in question should just try to not be a bunch of clowns. Uhhhh.....well....if they didn't have that nickname, we wouldn't have yelled racially insensitive things at their fans and players!!!!
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
What part of "It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't absolve anyone from thinking for themselves, but the nickname is contributing to the problem and it needs to go" was unclear?
Click to expand...

What part of "so chanting 'drunken Micks' is okay, since they have a similar offensive nickname" was unclear? Answer me that!
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
What part of "It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't absolve anyone from thinking for themselves, but the nickname is contributing to the problem and it needs to go" was unclear?
Click to expand...
I really don't believe that the name contributes to the problem.
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Old Pio said:
Jeez, why don't you at least try to be accurate. I spent my freshman year at Illinois and got my degree from DU. Okay? Since DU doesn't have football, I force myself to root for Illinois even though I know I'll be frustrated and disappointed. I'm not sure why my academic history is relevant, but you evidently place great importance on it. And I've made no secret of the fact, in dozens of posts, what a miscarriage of justice it was for the NC$$ to force the termination of Chief Illiniwek. Again, what's the relevance, Sherlock?
Click to expand...
Really? I thought you graduated from there. My mistake.
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

I can't wait for a real, live American Indian (or Native American, or whatever the hell name we like to make ourselves feel better by calling them) to come across this thread, and remind us all that yet again, we're giant tools that don't understand any culture but our own.

There, done with this thread.
 
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