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Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

duper said:
I agree with you that these chants are extremely tasteless, and it drives me nuts how much student sections in general (and my school's is no exception) do this stuff. But it is NOT the same.

It is plenty believable that "Sioux Suck" or "CC Sucks" or "F the Gophers" or anything like that is ONLY about the team on the ice, or possibly the student body of the school. As an example. There are few people who post such loathsome anti-DU diatribes as cctig, but when you meet him in person, he's a really nice guy, and it's clear that that stuff isn't personal and is intended in fun. We have, in fact, each bought each other a beer this season.

Whether you want to believe that the government infected people intentionally or not, whether you want to call the huge number of Natives who were killed by the Army an attempt at genocide or not, I just can't take chanting "smallpox blanket" as anything other than making light of a period of time during which an astounding number of people were murdered in cold blood because of the color of their skin. Regardless of the veracity of the stories, regardless of the intellectual dishonesty of one particular teller of those stories, I just can't find the fun in that. I will admit to being a wet blanket when it comes to the annihilation of entire races of people, but I hope that I am not alone in that.
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So, saying a tribe of people sucks is the same as saying a pack (or whatever) of rodents sucks?
What about saying "neuter the Huskies" or "Castrate the Sioux?" Still the same?
What if a team was named the Fighting Jews? Would you be comfortable yelling "F the Jews?" "F the Christians?" "F the Japanese?" "F the Mexicans?" You still okay here?
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
So, saying a tribe of people sucks is the same as saying a pack (or whatever) of rodents sucks?
What about saying "neuter the Huskies" or "Castrate the Sioux?" Still the same?
What if a team was named the Fighting Jews? Would you be comfortable yelling "F the Jews?" "F the Christians?" "F the Japanese?" "F the Mexicans?" You still okay here?
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You're doing a really good job of disproving your own argument.
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
So, saying a tribe of people sucks is the same as saying a pack (or whatever) of rodents sucks?
What about saying "neuter the Huskies" or "Castrate the Sioux?" Still the same?
What if a team was named the Fighting Jews? Would you be comfortable yelling "F the Jews?" "F the Christians?" "F the Japanese?" "F the Mexicans?" You still okay here?
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Answer the Irish question. You seem to be okay, in theory, about that. It's justified! It's a racist/ethnic logo/mascot!
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Dude Love said:
Maybe the Bulldog fans in question should just try to not be a bunch of clowns. Uhhhh.....well....if they didn't have that nickname, we wouldn't have yelled racially insensitive things at their fans and players!!!!
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Changing the behavior of tUMD fans won't make the nickname any less racist.
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
Changing the behavior of tUMD fans won't make the nickname any less racist.
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No one is debating that the name isn't racist. But you're attempting to argue that the UMD fans are justified to yell ridiculously racist things because it exists. I agree the "F the Sioux" isn't culturally responsible...but these guys were yelling about smallpox blankets!!! Are you on acid right now??
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Dude Love said:
No one is debating that the name isn't racist. But you're attempting to argue that the UMD fans are justified to yell ridiculously racist things because it exists. I agree the "F the Sioux" isn't culturally responsible...but these guys were yelling about smallpox blankets!!! Are you on acid right now??
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WHERE did I say it was JUSTIFIED? WHERE?
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
So, saying a tribe of people sucks is the same as saying a pack (or whatever) of rodents sucks?
What about saying "neuter the Huskies" or "Castrate the Sioux?" Still the same?
What if a team was named the Fighting Jews? Would you be comfortable yelling "F the Jews?" "F the Christians?" "F the Japanese?" "F the Mexicans?" You still okay here?
Click to expand...
I was very clear. All of that kind of nonsense is distasteful and rude. But making light of the killing of a race of people is beyond distasteful into disgusting territory. (And again, using the NAME OF THE TEAM in the chant is different in my mind. Rude, and obnoxious, but different)
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

You are contradicting yourself. You said UND created the environment that allowed stupid people to yell stupid chants. Without a catalyst, there is no result. Catalyst? UND. Result? tUMD fans chanting horrible chants. Blame? On UND.
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Brenthoven said:
You are contradicting yourself. You said UND created the environment that allowed stupid people to yell stupid chants. Without a catalyst, there is no result. Catalyst? UND. Result? tUMD fans chanting horrible chants. Blame? On UND.
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Who are you talking to? Her, right?
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Old Pio said:
Ward Churchill "academic researcher?" For cripes sake he was chairman of a department at a flagship state universisty. Why intentionaly diminish has stature? The dark heart of every conspiracy theory is the inference of subjective motivation from objective result, post hoc ergo propter hoc. And that's what you're arguing here.

The writing of history is a consensus activity. And just as the consensus of history is that Oswald shot JFK and there was no conspiracy, similarly the consensus of history is this event that is so much a part of what you "know" about American history is a lie.

Indians were decimated by small pox? And this is "proof" it was done deliberately? I suppose it would be useless to point out, again, that I don't approve of the cheers. But that's not really your concern, is it? What you're concerned about is the everyone be properly disgusted with a mythical episode. If you keep repeating a historical lie often enough and loud enough (Jews stabbed Germany in the back, for instance) some credulous people will doubtless begin to believe it.
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You entirely missed my point and chose to invent your own point to ascribe to me.
Whether this was done deliberately or subconsciously is an interesting question.

I'll back it up for you. The Native American population was decimated by smallpox (I can't figure out if you find this point contentious or not). This in and of itself is not "proof" that it was done deliberately. There is plenty of other evidence that deliberate spread of the disease was ordered to be pursued. There is strong implicating evidence that it was carried out, however this of course can not be "proven."
I was not discussing a singular "event" as you seem to suggest.
It concerns my knowledge of American history only insofar as the entire issue of smallpox and Native North Americans happened in North America.

This discussion is irrelevant to the discussion of the inappropriateness of the use of the chant by some UMD students.

The fact that you felt the need to raise the issue, and your tenor in the entire exchange, wreaks of paranoia and a warped world view.
 
Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Dude Love said:
It's not UND's fault that people yell idiotically racist things. That's the PEOPLE'S fault. PEOPLE need to take responsibility for their actions.
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And after tUMD students clean up their act, some other fanbase will do something else. And another. And another. tUMD students aren't the first (or even the worst offenders) and won't be the last. All of those people will be wrong. And none of those people would even make those chants if there was no RACIST NICKNAME. Kill two birds with one stone! Stop the chants and stop the nickname! Is this really that hard to understand? Instead of only stopping the fans' offensive chants/t-shirts/signs, also stop the racist nickname! How does a reactive solution of chastising and punishing students/fans who make these chants/t-shirts/signs, after the harm has already been done, trump a proactive solution, getting rid of the inherently harmful and dehumanizing nickname that also leads to offensive behavior from other fanbases?

Your fanbase threw batteries at opposing players. Was it those fans' faults? Absolutely. Was it an idiotic idea to hand those battery-operated fans or whatever out to drunken students? Yes.

Are we really still discussing whether smallpox was intentionally or unintentionally spread to the native population of the United States? I would suggest using the "ignore" feature for Old Pio. Until you have tried it, you do not know the peace of the ignore button.
 
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Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Runninwiththedogs said:
And after tUMD students clean up their act, some other fanbase will do something else. And another. And another. tUMD students aren't the first (or even the worst offenders) and won't be the last. All of those people will be wrong. And none of those people would even make those chants if there was no RACIST NICKNAME. Kill two birds with one stone! Stop the chants and stop the nickname! Is this really that hard to understand? Instead of only stopping the fans' offensive chants/t-shirts/signs, also stop the racist nickname! How does a reactive solution of chastising and punishing students/fans who make these chants/t-shirts/signs, after the harm has already been done, trump a proactive solution, getting rid of the inherently harmful and dehumanizing nickname that also leads to offensive behavior from other fanbases?

Your fanbase threw batteries at opposing players. Was it those fans' faults? Absolutely. Was it an idiotic idea to hand those battery-operated fans or whatever out to drunken students? Yes.
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Ya know, if you had just prefaced your remarks by saying you thought the use of the chant was inappropriate, insensitive and embarrassing to the University of Minnesota - Duluth, the majority of people wouldn't have taken such strong issue with you.

That you chose to omit such an opinion and instead focus entirely on the UND nickname leaves the impression that you don't find any fault with your own fan base.
 
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