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Div III NCAA Rankings

Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

HockeyEast33 said:
- The whole season sort of matters, but the last 25% clearly matters significnatly more. Otherwise, you can't explain Elmira over Middlebury (which I'm not complaining about, but if you count the whole season equally Midd beat them twice) - even the Elmira folks thought they had to win yesterday to get in.
- Where did you find the 3/10 NCAA rankings on the NCAA website? They generally don't publish the last rankings to avoid any issues with not following the rankings exactly in selecting the teams. Are you sure it wasn't the 3/4 ranking with 3/10 as the current date?
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Last 25% is one of the comparison criteria as is overall record. So they count equally. St Thomas was better than Stevens Point in that one category, but Stevens Point basically one the rest.

Actually when I look at it, St Thomas sat Reidel for the two games against Stevens Point instead opting for a Freshmen goaltender who'd never played a collegiate game before. You don't know if the outcome would have been different, but I'm guessing they win one of those games and they are hosting this weekend.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

So the West gets an extra at-large at Midd's expense. Based on recent East/West results in NCAA QF and SF games, it would appear to me that with all the criteria considered, the 4-4 split comes down to saving $$$?

Also, if I'm reading the brackets correctly, even if the two surviving West teams lose their semifinal games, they would meet in the third place game, guaranteeing the West at least one victory at the FF. When was the last time a West team won a FF game?
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

So you're saying the NCAA wasted $$ when they flew SNC to Plattsburgh last year and Concordia (MN) to RIT in 2012?
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

spike said:
So the West gets an extra at-large at Midd's expense. Based on recent East/West results in NCAA QF and SF games, it would appear to me that with all the criteria considered, the 4-4 split comes down to saving $$$?

Also, if I'm reading the brackets correctly, even if the two surviving West teams lose their semifinal games, they would meet in the third place game, guaranteeing the West at least one victory at the FF. When was the last time a West team won a FF game?
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I don't think the West got the extra bid at Middlebury's expense. I think Elmira got a bid at Middlebury's expense. I thought both western teams matched up favorably with the eastern teams. I thought it would be Middlebury over Elmira for the last spot, but I was wrong.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

123kidd said:
So you're saying the NCAA wasted $$ when they flew SNC to Plattsburgh last year and Concordia (MN) to RIT in 2012?
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To the contrary, in the 7-team format a 5-2 split saved money and a 4-3 split cost money. In the 8-team format a 5-3 split cost money and a 4-4 split saves money. Spending the extra money to allow the East to have the 5-3 split was a good thing. Going 4-4 to save money would then be a bad thing assuming of course that Elmira and Midd should have gotten in. I know that is a leap of faith based on the "criteria", but my point is that every year the West gets beat up in this tournament so at some point shouldn't that be factored in with the "criteria"?
 
spike said:
To the contrary, in the 7-team format a 5-2 split saved money and a 4-3 split cost money. In the 8-team format a 5-3 split cost money and a 4-4 split saves money. Spending the extra money to allow the East to have the 5-3 split was a good thing. Going 4-4 to save money would then be a bad thing assuming of course that Elmira and Midd should have gotten in. I know that is a leap of faith based on the "criteria", but my point is that every year the West gets beat up in this tournament so at some point shouldn't that be factored in with the "criteria"?
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Great idea! In fact, why don't we just not let the West have any auto bids...! And how about that line of thinking for the East Coast at the D1 level, too, since the WCHA seems to win every year. Even further, how about there be an East National Champion and a West National Champion so that everyone can feel good about themselves....! Do you see where I'm going with this, Spike? About the same direction you are with your criteria comment.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

Seems to me with the 4-4 split they will fly 2 teams east and with the 5-3 split (assuming the team flown east is #8 seed and loses to #1) they end up paying for 2 flights, so it is a wash, eh? The rub would be if #8 upset #1, of course, as what would happen, stay in the east until the following weekend?
I thought Middlebury deserved to get the 3rd Pool C, but what do I know? Anyway, there will be 2 east-west semis and if the west can win on the ice, that will be great, but I would not bet the ranch on it.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

obserbear said:
Seems to me with the 4-4 split they will fly 2 teams east and with the 5-3 split (assuming the team flown east is #8 seed and loses to #1) they end up paying for 2 flights, so it is a wash, eh? The rub would be if #8 upset #1, of course, as what would happen, stay in the east until the following weekend?
I thought Middlebury deserved to get the 3rd Pool C, but what do I know? Anyway, there will be 2 east-west semis and if the west can win on the ice, that will be great, but I would not bet the ranch on it.
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Since the idea of #8 upsetting #1 is now out there, if it did happen AND #6 upset #2, with 3, or 4 & 5 from the west being the highest remaining seed would the finals be out west? OMG not two years in a row!
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

Here is another one to ponder. If the Wisco schools had stayed in the NCHA do you think there would have been three teams from the same conference playing this weekend? Just another reward for being bad.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

I find interesting that the NCAA put out Rankings every Tuesday all season long. They must of forgot to put them out on the 11th. Or maybe it's just to embarrassing trying to list Elmira as a seven seed and Williams as an eighth. These two teams are easily in the top five in the country.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

Tjames said:
I find interesting that the NCAA put out Rankings every Tuesday all season long. They must of forgot to put them out on the 11th. Or maybe it's just to embarrassing trying to list Elmira as a seven seed and Williams as an eighth. These two teams are easily in the top five in the country.
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The NCAA only puts out 3 public rankings and the 4th is "secret" and only the committee sees it. These are the last 4 weeks of the season. The polls you see the rest of the season are put out by D3 hockey.com and USCHO. They are actually meaningless for the NCAA tournament, They were released on the tenth. Also, Williams had 9 losses, that is double the losses of almost every other team in the tourney. Who would you seed them ahead of?
 
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Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

Williams has an RPI ranking of 15th. Another meaningless ranking to the NCAA. They are not a Top 10 team in the county. I'm not sure they were even in the Top 6 of the published NCAA rankings? D3hockey and uscho are hockey sources, not the best, not the worst.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

Williams has the 4th ranked SOS and 3rd best win percentage amongst eastern teams. The NESCAC is the toughest conference in Div3. I'd put them ahead of any team out of the west. But that would create travel expense.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

Birdwatcher said:
The NCAA only puts out 3 public rankings and the 4th is "secret" and only the committee sees it. These are the last 4 weeks of the season. The polls you see the rest of the season are put out by D3 hockey.com and USCHO. They are actually meaningless for the NCAA tournament, They were released on the tenth. Also, Williams had 9 losses, that is double the losses of almost every other team in the tourney. Who would you seed them ahead of?
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You seem to have a strong opinion about Williams. Do agree with Elmira coming in as a 7 seed as well?
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

Tjames said:
You seem to have a strong opinion about Williams. Do agree with Elmira coming in as a 7 seed as well?
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The teams aren't seeded so we're all guessing here, but I don't think Elmira is the 7 seed either. My guess would be Lake Forest as the #7 seed and Elmira as the #6 seed.

My guess as to seeding (in order)?

Plattsburgh, River Falls, Norwich, Stevens Point, St. Thomas, Elmira, Lake Forest, Williams.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

Platty, Elmira and Norwich take the risk of playing the tough schedule all season. Travel expense shouldn't factor in on who they play in the quarters.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

spwood said:
The teams aren't seeded so we're all guessing here, but I don't think Elmira is the 7 seed either. My guess would be Lake Forest as the #7 seed and Elmira as the #6 seed.

My guess as to seeding (in order)?

Plattsburgh, River Falls, Norwich, Stevens Point, St. Thomas, Elmira, Lake Forest, Williams.
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Not a chance River Falls is the 2 seed over Norwich.
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

Tjames said:
Not a chance River Falls is the 2 seed over Norwich.
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I don't think it's as cut and dry as you think it is, but OK, Norwich can be #2 and River Falls can be #3. What does that get you?
 
Re: Div III NCAA Rankings

spwood said:
The teams aren't seeded so we're all guessing here, but I don't think Elmira is the 7 seed either. My guess would be Lake Forest as the #7 seed and Elmira as the #6 seed.

My guess as to seeding (in order)?

Plattsburgh, River Falls, Norwich, Stevens Point, St. Thomas, Elmira, Lake Forest, Williams.
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The teams are very definitely seeded, they just don't publish the seeds. They HAVE to be since the highest remaining seed hosts the final four this year. The top 4 seeds are clearly Platty, Norwich, WRF, and WSP because they are the 4 hosts. All seem to agree that Platty is the 1 seed and they always put the 4 seed on the other side of the 1 seed bracket, so WSP is the 4 seed. The only real question is whether Norwich or WRF is the 2 seed. I'd guess Norwich but it is pretty close. Ultimately, the only way we'll find out is if Williams, WRF, and Norwich win - the host would be the 2 seed.
 
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