D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

[mainiac]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

Norwich has no class!!

First off let me say that I was at this game....and the Norwich Coaches did all they could do to keep the score down.....look at the box score.... they only took 8 shots the entire 3rd period, they just moved it around for the last half of the entire game. The blame needs to be laid on Plymouth........a new rink to recruit to , big talks of an entirely new incoming team of 40+ players, a new coaching staff and this is what they came up with???? Really???? They have scored like 17 goals all year.....if anyone needs to be blamed it is Plymouth for coming up with this debaucle, when they should have been able to do so much better with what they had to offer. Sounds to me like the blame should be on an athletic administration that looks like it made some really poor choices........Remember this is a team that came into this with Norwich at the same time. Looks like one program went one way and the other went the other......I think that reflects decissions made by the administration and from the AD and the coaches. Put the blame where it needs to be not on players and a program who did their best to keep this reasonable.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

First off let me say that I was at this game....and the Norwich Coaches did all they could do to keep the score down.....look at the box score.... they only took 8 shots the entire 3rd period, they just moved it around for the last half of the entire game. The blame needs to be laid on Plymouth........a new rink to recruit to , big talks of an entirely new incoming team of 40+ players, a new coaching staff and this is what they came up with???? Really???? They have scored like 17 goals all year.....if anyone needs to be blamed it is Plymouth for coming up with this debaucle, when they should have been able to do so much better with what they had to offer. Sounds to me like the blame should be on an athletic administration that looks like it made some really poor choices........Remember this is a team that came into this with Norwich at the same time. Looks like one program went one way and the other went the other......I think that reflects decissions made by the administration and from the AD and the coaches. Put the blame where it needs to be not on players and a program who did their best to keep this reasonable.

The rink just got completed only a few weeks before the season started. I'll give them a pass for this season. However, next season, if they go winless again, maybe the above post is warranted.

 

[gojackets]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

First off let me say that I was at this game....and the Norwich Coaches did all they could do to keep the score down.....look at the box score.... they only took 8 shots the entire 3rd period, they just moved it around for the last half of the entire game. The blame needs to be laid on Plymouth........a new rink to recruit to , big talks of an entirely new incoming team of 40+ players, a new coaching staff and this is what they came up with???? Really???? They have scored like 17 goals all year.....if anyone needs to be blamed it is Plymouth for coming up with this debaucle, when they should have been able to do so much better with what they had to offer. Sounds to me like the blame should be on an athletic administration that looks like it made some really poor choices........Remember this is a team that came into this with Norwich at the same time. Looks like one program went one way and the other went the other......I think that reflects decissions made by the administration and from the AD and the coaches. Put the blame where it needs to be not on players and a program who did their best to keep this reasonable.

I was joking

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

The rink just got completed only a few weeks before the season started. I'll give them a pass for this season. However, next season, if they go winless again, maybe the above post is warranted.

They were still able to use that rink as part of their recruiting. They've been trying to sell it for the last several years, so especially now that the light was at the end of the tunnel last season and coming into this season they should have been able to get some benefit from the facility in their recruiting.

That said...on one hand, after seeing this team play a couple times over the past 2 seasons, I don't think their coach is a college level hockey coach. Just my opinion.

However, I also don't think you can really blame her for the majority of this. When the school pays their head coach about $6,000 a year (unless this changed when they hired her?) then you can't expect the program to be able to draw a real qualified hockey coach, and regardless of who your coach is you can't expect them to make chicken salad out of chicken poo.

Winless programs CAN recruit enough decent hockey players to be competitive and win a few games. There is precedent for it in a few places over the last several years. You don't even need administrative support, all you need for that to happen is a GOOD coach who is able to focus FULL TIME on the program. If you want to experience any real SUSTAINABLE success over the long haul then you need a committed and supportive administration and a good qualified coach who can focus full time on buildling the program.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

They were still able to use that rink as part of their recruiting. They've been trying to sell it for the last several years, so especially now that the light was at the end of the tunnel last season and coming into this season they should have been able to get some benefit from the facility in their recruiting.

That said...on one hand, after seeing this team play a couple times over the past 2 seasons, I don't think their coach is a college level hockey coach. Just my opinion.

However, I also don't think you can really blame her for the majority of this. When the school pays their head coach about $6,000 a year (unless this changed when they hired her?) then you can't expect the program to be able to draw a real qualified hockey coach, and regardless of who your coach is you can't expect them to make chicken salad out of chicken poo.

Winless programs CAN recruit enough decent hockey players to be competitive and win a few games. There is precedent for it in a few places over the last several years. You don't even need administrative support, all you need for that to happen is a GOOD coach who is able to focus FULL TIME on the program. If you want to experience any real SUSTAINABLE success over the long haul then you need a committed and supportive administration and a good qualified coach who can focus full time on buildling the program.

I agree with you Rat it's always about the coach....not so much the barn.

 

[hockeydaddy]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

First off let me say that I was at this game....and the Norwich Coaches did all they could do to keep the score down.....look at the box score.... they only took 8 shots the entire 3rd period, they just moved it around for the last half of the entire game. The blame needs to be laid on Plymouth........a new rink to recruit to , big talks of an entirely new incoming team of 40+ players, a new coaching staff and this is what they came up with???? Really???? They have scored like 17 goals all year.....if anyone needs to be blamed it is Plymouth for coming up with this debaucle, when they should have been able to do so much better with what they had to offer. Sounds to me like the blame should be on an athletic administration that looks like it made some really poor choices........Remember this is a team that came into this with Norwich at the same time. Looks like one program went one way and the other went the other......I think that reflects decissions made by the administration and from the AD and the coaches. Put the blame where it needs to be not on players and a program who did their best to keep this reasonable.

No, that was a timely post Mainiac and I agree with rinkrat. ( sorry Prez) My kid told me she could of scored 6 goals and 2 assist ( or more) with those few shifts she had but chose the high road instead. But I do like your sense of humor Gojackets. Oh, and it's 19 degrees F and snowing.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

However, I also don't think you can really blame her for the majority of this. When the school pays their head coach about $6,000 a year (unless this changed when they hired her?) then you can't expect the program to be able to draw a real qualified hockey coach, and regardless of who your coach is you can't expect them to make chicken salad out of chicken poo.

When the program went varsity, the head coach would have to be paid on the same scale as the men's coach, so I doubt it is anywhere near $6k.

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

When the program went varsity, the head coach would have to be paid on the same scale as the men's coach, so I doubt it is anywhere near $6k.

That is not even remotely true. I know for a fact that the first coach was making between 6 and 8k on their sliding scale (where the max was only about 10k) and she had some previous college coaching experience.

Some schools may adhere to guidelines similar to this, and it shouldn't be a surprise that those schools with more investment in their programs are more successful.

 

[FranchisePlayer]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

They were still able to use that rink as part of their recruiting. They've been trying to sell it for the last several years, so especially now that the light was at the end of the tunnel last season and coming into this season they should have been able to get some benefit from the facility in their recruiting.

That said...on one hand, after seeing this team play a couple times over the past 2 seasons, I don't think their coach is a college level hockey coach. Just my opinion.

However, I also don't think you can really blame her for the majority of this. When the school pays their head coach about $6,000 a year (unless this changed when they hired her?) then you can't expect the program to be able to draw a real qualified hockey coach, and regardless of who your coach is you can't expect them to make chicken salad out of chicken poo.

Winless programs CAN recruit enough decent hockey players to be competitive and win a few games. There is precedent for it in a few places over the last several years. You don't even need administrative support, all you need for that to happen is a GOOD coach who is able to focus FULL TIME on the program. If you want to experience any real SUSTAINABLE success over the long haul then you need a committed and supportive administration and a good qualified coach who can focus full time on buildling the program.

Well, let's look at last season compared to this season and see if the coach has made any headway with a program that has one win under its belt in its existence:

2009-10
Average loss differential - 8.5 goals
11 games giving up double-digit goals
13 times shut out

2010-11
Average loss differential - 4.6 goals
1 game giving up double-digit goals (the most recent game, to Norwich)
5 games shut out

This is being done with a team whose starting goaltender is a freshman and nearly every other position is played by freshmen ... including the defensive corps, which is comprised entirely of freshmen - the top one of that group has been out with a shoulder injury since December and another defenseman is away playing for Team Australia. They also just lost their top scorer to an injury as well.

 

[nbound]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

Well, let's look at last season compared to this season and see if the coach has made any headway with a program that has one win under its belt in its existence:

2009-10
Average loss differential - 8.5 goals
11 games giving up double-digit goals
13 times shut out

2010-11
Average loss differential - 4.6 goals
1 game giving up double-digit goals (the most recent game, to Norwich)
5 games shut out

This is being done with a team whose starting goaltender is a freshman and nearly every other position is played by freshmen ... including the defensive corps, which is comprised entirely of freshmen - the top one of that group has been out with a shoulder injury since December and another defenseman is away playing for Team Australia. They also just lost their top scorer to an injury as well.

St Norbert's is a first year program with I believe all freshmen players including an international team player. They've more than 1 win.

 

[Phil D. Stands]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

First of all -- gojackets gets kudos for being the fastest on the trigger -- hilarious!

Second of all, it sounds like Plymouth State is a state college from NH versus a private college, and therefore can't match the money and resources thrown at the sport.
The men's team at NU casts a brotherly shadow over the women's program and due to their military traditions the women are probably expected and supported in upholding that elan and espirit de corps. Warrior tradition and all that. Curious to see how well Plymouth State's men's team does relative to NU.

Thirdly, I think the numbers above prove that the underpaid coach is doing a tremendous job with what she has and stands to improve. The level of competition is only getting better in the women's game and the parity that is being shown is a good thing for all teams (eventually).

Fourthly, I don't see the use of anything more than a 10 goal differential in this game, but I don't have an honorable way to prevent it either -- if you are playing "keep away" then how insulting is that? One gal in such a situation spent an entire shift skating without taking her blades off the ice -- very hard and challenging, and interesting to watch, and perhaps personally gratifying, but there aren't enough leftie sticks to go around.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

St Norbert's is a first year program with I believe all freshmen players including an international team player. They've more than 1 win.

St Norbert doesn't play in the ECAC East...

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

Well, let's look at last season compared to this season and see if the coach has made any headway with a program that has one win under its belt in its existence:

2009-10
Average loss differential - 8.5 goals
11 games giving up double-digit goals
13 times shut out

2010-11
Average loss differential - 4.6 goals
1 game giving up double-digit goals (the most recent game, to Norwich)
5 games shut out

This is being done with a team whose starting goaltender is a freshman and nearly every other position is played by freshmen ... including the defensive corps, which is comprised entirely of freshmen - the top one of that group has been out with a shoulder injury since December and another defenseman is away playing for Team Australia. They also just lost their top scorer to an injury as well.

it's better, and that's great...but typically teams that get blown out every night and want to change things will be relying almost entirely on freshmen since the kids that were in the program previously obviously couldn't get it done... so you don't get a pass for that. other programs have brought kids in and been able to at least win a few games right away and generally be more competitive in tougher conferences than plymouth has been in a relatively weak conference this year.

the offensive numbers are a slight improvement although they aren't generating many more shots than last year, and the defensive numbers can be attributed largely to a goaltender that has a save % about 5% higher than the girl last year did. at 50 shots a game, that's a 2.5 goals/game difference which is quite significant and makes up a good chunk of the difference you noted.

the reality is that the kids she brought in are better than the ones that were there previously, but they aren't good enough to win games at this level. but, as i said before, that is not entirely her fault.

 

[24checking]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

St Norbert doesn't play in the ECAC East...

AND... What's your point?

 

[gojackets]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

St Norbert doesn't play in the ECAC East...

ugh you make me respond to such garbage.

Thanks for making nbound's point. St Norbert plays in a much tougher conference than the ECAC-E. Most NCHA teams would fair pretty well in the ECAC-E, including St Norbert who I would say is pretty comparable to NEC.

There are 3 NCHA teams with a sub .500 record, there are 6 in the ECAC-E. NCHA has 11 total teams, ECAC-E 12.

St Norbert's non-conference opponents were Bethel(10-7-2), St Marys (10-6-3), and St Kate(8-8-2), and St Ben's(3-11-2). They went 3-2 in those games losing to St mary's and Bethel.

Plymouth's nonconference opponents are 21-52-4, none with a winning record..the closest of those games was 3 goals.

Plymouth has 8 non-freshman on the Roster, SNC has 0.


The difference here is that SNC hired their coach a full year before they played their first game. SNC said "if we're going to do this, we're going to do this full throttle" (not a real quote) They paid the coach for a year before the program existed to put together the program and recruit the best players he could get to the school.

I'm fairly certain Plymouth did not do the same thing. It looks like they are trying to turn a corner here, but let's hope they don't go the Chatham route...no offense.

 

[gojackets]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

River Falls at St Thomas got moved to Wednesday for some reason

 

[nbound]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

St Norbert doesn't play in the ECAC East...

you're lucky they don't or the ECAC east would be embarrassed by a first year team

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

That is not even remotely true. I know for a fact that the first coach was making between 6 and 8k on their sliding scale (where the max was only about 10k) and she had some previous college coaching experience.

Some schools may adhere to guidelines similar to this, and it shouldn't be a surprise that those schools with more investment in their programs are more successful.

Really. When the program became a varsity sport, Title IX would have kicked in. That would mandate that the coach be paid on the same scale as the men's coach (I did not say the same salary). Or are you saying that Plymouth State is ignoring Title IX concerns, which is a much larger issue?

 

[hawkhockey]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

ugh you make me respond to such garbage.

Thanks for making nbound's point. St Norbert plays in a much tougher conference than the ECAC-E. Most NCHA teams would fair pretty well in the ECAC-E, including St Norbert who I would say is pretty comparable to NEC.

There are 3 NCHA teams with a sub .500 record, there are 6 in the ECAC-E. NCHA has 11 total teams, ECAC-E 12.

St Norbert's non-conference opponents were Bethel(10-7-2), St Marys (10-6-3), and St Kate(8-8-2), and St Ben's(3-11-2). They went 3-2 in those games losing to St mary's and Bethel.

Plymouth's nonconference opponents are 21-52-4, none with a winning record..the closest of those games was 3 goals.

Plymouth has 8 non-freshman on the Roster, SNC has 0.


The difference here is that SNC hired their coach a full year before they played their first game. SNC said "if we're going to do this, we're going to do this full throttle" (not a real quote) They paid the coach for a year before the program existed to put together the program and recruit the best players he could get to the school.

I'm fairly certain Plymouth did not do the same thing. It looks like they are trying to turn a corner here, but let's hope they don't go the Chatham route...no offense.

much tougher conference(NCHA) than ECACE. How did you come up with this statement? you have teams "much tougher" than Norwich,HC,ST.A's,M'ville?

 

[Captain Obvious]

Re: D3 Scores and Highlights - 2010/11

Really. When the program became a varsity sport, Title IX would have kicked in. That would mandate that the coach be paid on the same scale as the men's coach (I did not say the same salary). Or are you saying that Plymouth State is ignoring Title IX concerns, which is a much larger issue?

There is no Title IX issue here. I love how everyone throws this term around on these boards, when no one know how to use it. There are other schools out there that have full time men's coaches and part-time women's coaches. Neumann being one in the past, the men's program had a full-time men's coach for many years, while the women's job was part-time.