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D3 Decisions: Running up the score

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

posttopost2 said:
How's this for handling a blow out, put your forth line in and then ask your goalie to let in a couple of softies to let the losing team build some confidence? Oh, and tell your fourth line no shooting on the net even when the opposing goalie falls down and leaves it wide open? That was my Wednesday afternoon. We were up 6-0 and the coach at the end of the first period said to the goalie, let in three softies but don't let it look like they were let in by you - "you know, a couple of 5 holes" wink wink nudge nudge. Of course the fans from the other team were so happy when they finally scored, but all of us knew exactly what was happening. Now is that a good way to handle the blow out or the bad way? We ended up winning 6-3. I really think there is no real good way to answer this question because bottom line is this, the losing team has to work harder to becoming the winning team, and the winning team this game may be the blown out team the next game. I think bottom line is this, work hard get better and remember the blow outs because that is what makes a good player great. Not every team is going to win every game.
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To answer your question, it was the bad way. I'm trying to be as polite as I can now when I say that you just don't get what I'm saying. What the other coach did was rediculous, but somehow I get the feeling that you think that winning by a bunch over no competition will get a team better. Doesn't work that way pal and I'm not going to spend all day explaining it to you. Some people get it and some don't, maybe we should leave it at that. Let your conscience be the judge. Or better yet, check your stats at the end of the year and realize how legitimate they really are. When I scout, after the skillset and personality, I look deep into the numbers. You have to be careful not to give too much credit to an illusion. That's why the strength of a schedule is so important.

If your kid is a goalie though I can certainly see your frustration.
 
Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

CanHockGuy said:
To answer your question, it was the bad way. I'm trying to be as polite as I can now when I say that you just don't get what I'm saying. What the other coach did was rediculous, but somehow I get the feeling that you think that winning by a bunch over no competition will get a team better. Doesn't work that way pal and I'm not going to spend all day explaining it to you. Some people get it and some don't, maybe we should leave it at that. Let your conscience be the judge. Or better yet, check your stats at the end of the year and realize how legitimate they really are. When I scout, after the skillset and personality, I look deep into the numbers. You have to be careful not to give too much credit to an illusion. That's why the strength of a schedule is so important.

If your kid is a goalie though I can certainly see your frustration.
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Nice try CHG...but I've come to the conclusion that this subject is a "tastes great", "less filling" kind of a thing. Some get it, some don't. I'm with you... but convinced however that anybody that does get it are hockey people the balance are...well ______________ ! fill in the blank.
 
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Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

5 4 Fighting said:
Nice try CHG...but I've come to the conclusion that this subject is a "tastes great", "less filling" kind of a thing. Some get it, some don't. I'm with you... but convinced however that anybody that does get it are hockey people the balance are...well ______________ ! fill in the blank.
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Roger that;)
 
Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

CanHockGuy said:
If you are a coach, you should understand (no disrespect intended) that keep-away means you have total control of the puck. That's disrespectful, and very stupid. It does create friction. There have been many replies to this thread, and others, that have complained in this manner.
Good (or experienced) coaches understand that there is a way to avoid the disrespect of keep-away. It is easily accomplished by playing a controlled breakout, followed by a neutral dump, frequent changes, then various defensive strategies that keep the puck moving from end to end, thus keeping the clock moving.
If you understand coaching, this is simple and effective. Dicking around only causes friction, whether it be running up the score, or playing with the weaker team. It's not really complicated if you understand and respect the game. The definition of running up the score is showing disrespect when the weak team obviously has no chance. Don't try to tell me it is unavoidable, you may be bordering on cowardice.
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I suppose I simply disagree with you. While I do agree that the controlled breakout followed by a dump and then frequent changes may be a tactful way to handle a youth game, I do not believe that it's the right way to handle varsity-level athletics, whether it's high school or college. Why do people insist that continuing to score equals "running up the score"? Respecting the game also means putting on the ice a team that can be competitve. If one's school can't or won't field a competitive team, then it's simply too bad for them if they get blown out. Perhaps they should re-think their scheduling or whether to continue to field the team at that level...

I don't really understand your cowardice comment - was that directed toward me/my comment or to the fictional team that is "running up the score"?

In my opinion, the only thing that truly constitutes running up the score would be something like continuing to put on the first power play unit when your team is already up five or six goals. I do agree that it makes sense to open up the bench and give more (much more) ice time to the third and fourth liners that don't normally see as much ice. But should the reins be put on those kids, too, and should they be told not to score because their opponent is so weak?

This whole conversation seems reflective of the obsession with self-esteem. We worry so much about how someone will handle losing ... or, in this instance, getting blown out. At the end of day, if you get blown out, but you played your heart out, continued to try to block shots, continued to skate hard on every shift, etc, then there is no shame in that no matter what the scoreboard says.

In the end, everyone takes their lumps in life, and the day comes for all of us at some point when we get the crap beat out of us in some way (sports, job, school, whatever). If you don't learn to how take it and how to take steps to ensure that it never happens again, and if you expect the other side to take it easy on you because you or your team is weak, then you really aren't learning anything about life ... except how to be, as you put it, a "coward" and hope that someone else will either pity you or take care of you for you.
 
Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

FranchisePlayer said:
I suppose I simply disagree with you. While I do agree that the controlled breakout followed by a dump and then frequent changes may be a tactful way to handle a youth game, I do not believe that it's the right way to handle varsity-level athletics, whether it's high school or college. Why do people insist that continuing to score equals "running up the score"? Respecting the game also means putting on the ice a team that can be competitve. If one's school can't or won't field a competitive team, then it's simply too bad for them if they get blown out. Perhaps they should re-think their scheduling or whether to continue to field the team at that level...

I don't really understand your cowardice comment - was that directed toward me/my comment or to the fictional team that is "running up the score"?

In my opinion, the only thing that truly constitutes running up the score would be something like continuing to put on the first power play unit when your team is already up five or six goals. I do agree that it makes sense to open up the bench and give more (much more) ice time to the third and fourth liners that don't normally see as much ice. But should the reins be put on those kids, too, and should they be told not to score because their opponent is so weak?

This whole conversation seems reflective of the obsession with self-esteem. We worry so much about how someone will handle losing ... or, in this instance, getting blown out. At the end of day, if you get blown out, but you played your heart out, continued to try to block shots, continued to skate hard on every shift, etc, then there is no shame in that no matter what the scoreboard says.

In the end, everyone takes their lumps in life, and the day comes for all of us at some point when we get the crap beat out of us in some way (sports, job, school, whatever). If you don't learn to how take it and how to take steps to ensure that it never happens again, and if you expect the other side to take it easy on you because you or your team is weak, then you really aren't learning anything about life ... except how to be, as you put it, a "coward" and hope that someone else will either pity you or take care of you for you.
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You get it. I wouldn't have wanted to ever have CanHockeyGuy as my coach, that's for sure, I probably would have thrown in the towel a long time ago.
 
Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

creasemonkey said:
You get it. I wouldn't have wanted to ever have CanHockeyGuy as my coach, that's for sure, I probably would have thrown in the towel a long time ago.
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Throw in the towel? Well that just about sums up your arguement and reveals your general nature, selfish and immature. This isn't about being weak, quite frankly it's the total opposite. Teams that are confident and strong do it this way. You don't understand the circumstances where this applies. Let it go, as 5-4 says, we'll agree to disagree. Not much point in arguing with a couple of plugs.

Your buddy...CanHockGuy
 
Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

CanHockGuy said:
Throw in the towel? Well that just about sums up your arguement and reveals your general nature, selfish and immature. This isn't about being weak, quite frankly it's the total opposite. Teams that are confident and strong do it this way. You don't understand the circumstances where this applies. Let it go, as 5-4 says, we'll agree to disagree. Not much point in arguing with a couple of plugs.

Your buddy...CanHockGuy
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How many fish you caught??? You've been trolling for days.
 
Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

with respect to the prior post, this would be my summation to those who defend, in any manner, a 16-0 final in a women's collegiate game:
If you are a player and feel that way, I hope that you have already been relegated to the beer leagues. My greatest hope, however, is that you do not, and never will, stand BEHIND the bench. Clearly, you have no clue as to how much you will wind up caring for your student/athletes - and how much you will despise such an insensitive final result.
 
Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

Pops Ryan said:
with respect to the prior post, this would be my summation to those who defend, in any manner, a 16-0 final in a women's collegiate game:
If you are a player and feel that way, I hope that you have already been relegated to the beer leagues. My greatest hope, however, is that you do not, and never will, stand BEHIND the bench. Clearly, you have no clue as to how much you will wind up caring for your student/athletes - and how much you will despise such an insensitive final result.
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I never defended a 16-0 win. Before the college level I would be upset with it as well. These games happen. Its not like this is the first score we've seen like this. What team do you root for. I garauntee that I can find a game where they "ran up the score." Unless they are plymouth state, Chatham...or one of those teams that can never compete with the big teams.

Where do you draw the line between winning and running up the score? If I had the gumption right now...I bet i could find at least twenty 10 goal wins in D3 this season. Heck, probably 10 of them vs Plymouth State alone. If they had won 16-3 would you be as upset?
 
Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

gojackets said:
yah..the moderator can delete it. Which might be a good idea since the thread has turned into one person spouting off...and the discussion has gone nowhere
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On the contrary..the moderators you speak of have left the 3 Brown threads alone. I would suggest if that's the standard they have set...nothing should get retired on these boards.

I'll admit it does get heated at times and mainly because of the passion involved in the sport. There are two sides to the debate, both with good arguments.

Oh and BTW the hockey Gods dealt with one team this weekend. USM will get theirs, Hockey Voo Doo....naah there's no such thing.
 
Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

Pops Ryan said:
with respect to the prior post, this would be my summation to those who defend, in any manner, a 16-0 final in a women's collegiate game:
If you are a player and feel that way, I hope that you have already been relegated to the beer leagues. My greatest hope, however, is that you do not, and never will, stand BEHIND the bench. Clearly, you have no clue as to how much you will wind up caring for your student/athletes - and how much you will despise such an insensitive final result.
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Pops,
I've read your posts for a while, and I respect your point of view. It's not about being sensitive or insensitive, however. I've been behind the bench for over ten years, and in my first few years, my teams got our butts handed to us, often losing by double-digit margins. The greatest lesson I learned in that time was this, if you'll permit a short anecdote:

I still remember the first time we were getting beat by 10 goals. In the third period, the ref skated over and asked if we wanted to run the clock - the other coach had asked. My players looked up at me, and I said no, we'll play the game out. My players were not happy - they desperately wanted to run the clock and get the heck out of that game; their previous coach used to ASK to run the clock when they were getting killed. We ended up losing by 15. The other coach apologized, and I told him he had nothing to apologize for - his team was much, much better, but I told him (and my team) that we wanted to become competitive, and we would take our lumps along the way. As long as they didn't quit, I told them, then they had nothing to be ashamed of. Over the course of the season, the mentality of our team changed. As similar situations arose, whenever we would get asked if we wanted to run the clock, the TEAM would answer, even before I could, that no, they did not want the clock to run. They wanted to play that game out. We finished the season with two wins and nearly thirty losses, but my players learned how to handle really difficult and uncomfortable situations. They learned to not look to the other team for mercy or pity. And we received compliment after compliment after games for how hard they played, for continuing to block shots, etc, no matter what the score was.

That's what I try to instill in my teams. If that's not what others do, that's fine. Everyone has their own philosophy. I know what has worked for the players I've coached, however, and I know that it's made them better, stronger people. And when my teams have beaten other ones by a wide margin, maybe most of the opposing players, coaches, and parents think it's wrong, and that's ok. But I guarantee there's at least one player on that other team (and maybe more) saying, hell no, I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that NEVER happens to me or to us again.
 
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