D3 Decisions: Running up the score

[gojackets]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

Every time this topic comes up I always hear comments that concern and protect the team that is running up the score! Can you say selfish! No good can come from running up the score for any of the teams. Please don't compare hockey with other sports, apples and oranges. Playing catch is silly. Work on your breakout, your neutral zone dump with frequent changes, and neutral zone defensive tactics. You'll be better prepared for that hot team you're playing next week. Keep the clock running!!!

So work on your breakout...breakout down the ice...then skate behind the net and throw it back out to center ice and do it again?

As a coach on the losing end of a 75-8( we made 8 free throw in the first quarter) beating in jv basketball last year...I know I was ****ed that the coach was still having his team full court press us til the final buzzer, but my girls got excited when they were able to break it. They took the challenge and went with it. I think they would have been more offended if the team had played catch out front.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

So work on your breakout...breakout down the ice...then skate behind the net and throw it back out to center ice and do it again?

As a coach on the losing end of a 75-8( we made 8 free throw in the first quarter) beating in jv basketball last year...I know I was ****ed that the coach was still having his team full court press us til the final buzzer, but my girls got excited when they were able to break it. They took the challenge and went with it. I think they would have been more offended if the team had played catch out front.

If you read what I said......apples and oranges. Judging by your response (the top part) you don't understand hockey very well, no offense or pun intended. Enough said.

 

[gojackets]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

If you read what I said......apples and oranges. Judging by your response (the top part) you don't understand hockey very well, no offense or pun intended. Enough said.

I understand what your saying, I just think its dumb. You dont want it compared to other sports....are blowouts in other sports not as bad...as beating up on some poor girl hockey players?? Trust me, the female hockey players I know...aren't going to be upset at a team for putting up 10+ goals on them. They would be more ****ed off if that team stopped trying to play.

Likening it to the vikings/cowboys game yesterday....if you don't like it, do something about it.

If you look at the results...St. Mikes beat Plymouth 10-0 there first game, Plymouth held that score to 4-1 the next time they met. It drove the players to do better the next game. Excluding the USM game Plymouth is averaging a 7 goal loss, factor in the USM game and it goes to 7.7, its nothing new for them to get beat up on. I don't recall people getting all over Norwich, NEC, Mville, St. Mikes when they blew Plymouth State out.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

I understand what your saying, I just think its dumb. You dont want it compared to other sports....are blowouts in other sports not as bad...as beating up on some poor girl hockey players?? Trust me, the female hockey players I know...aren't going to be upset at a team for putting up 10+ goals on them. They would be more ****ed off if that team stopped trying to play.

Likening it to the vikings/cowboys game yesterday....if you don't like it, do something about it.

If you look at the results...St. Mikes beat Plymouth 10-0 there first game, Plymouth held that score to 4-1 the next time they met. It drove the players to do better the next game. Excluding the USM game Plymouth is averaging a 7 goal loss, factor in the USM game and it goes to 7.7, its nothing new for them to get beat up on. I don't recall people getting all over Norwich, NEC, Mville, St. Mikes when they blew Plymouth State out.

I was polite to you..... If you think that this Plymouth team played better just because they were blown out you're even more ignorant to the game than I thought. It had nothing to do with it. I'd be curious to see what the shots were, but that doesn't really matter either. You basically hung yourself when you pointed out that this team gives up 7 plus goals per game. It's called respect for the game and for your opponents. Obviously this team does not have the talent to compete at this level. Taking a page from your analogy I suppose your should continue to kick the sh__ out of somebody after they are obviously knocked out in a fight. That takes a lot of courage, and I'll bet you'd tell him afterward that he ought to get better at it.

I have no association with any D-3 team just so you know. I just happened to come across your post. Also, I played football for many years and the last time I looked 6 points are awarded for a touchdown then the extra point. Then say a 4 or 5 touchdown lead is considered a blowout right. Football is very different from hockey as it is a lot harder to protect a 4 touchdown lead as opposed to a 7 or 8 goal lead. It's different, it's as simple as that. No pun intended.

 

[Pops Ryan]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

I agree with CanHock; protecting an 8 goal lead is hardly a challenge. What is challenging though, is how to play when you are up by 8...or down by 8. The So. Maine coach just passed up a great challenge. Too bad.

 

[creasemonkey]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

I was polite to you..... If you think that this Plymouth team played better just because they were blown out you're even more ignorant to the game than I thought. It had nothing to do with it. I'd be curious to see what the shots were, but that doesn't really matter either. You basically hung yourself when you pointed out that this team gives up 7 plus goals per game. It's called respect for the game and for your opponents. Obviously this team does not have the talent to compete at this level. Taking a page from your analogy I suppose your should continue to kick the sh__ out of somebody after they are obviously knocked out in a fight. That takes a lot of courage, and I'll bet you'd tell him afterward that he ought to get better at it.

I have no association with any D-3 team just so you know. I just happened to come across your post. Also, I played football for many years and the last time I looked 6 points are awarded for a touchdown then the extra point. Then say a 4 or 5 touchdown lead is considered a blowout right. Football is very different from hockey as it is a lot harder to protect a 4 touchdown lead as opposed to a 7 or 8 goal lead. It's different, it's as simple as that. No pun intended.

The game is obviously different but not the philosophy behind your statement. Athletic competititon is athletic competition. Since I play myself, I feel quite comfortable in saying that I would rather get blown out by 15 goals than have an opponent play monkey in the middle with the puck or not play up to their potential - to me that's so much more disrespectful and demoralizing. There is only one direction in which to point a finger when you lose that badly and it's not at the opposing team. And to quote you, "it's as simple as that."

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

The game is obviously different but not the philosophy behind your statement. Athletic competititon is athletic competition. Since I play myself, I feel quite comfortable in saying that I would rather get blown out by 15 goals than have an opponent play monkey in the middle with the puck or not play up to their potential - to me that's so much more disrespectful and demoralizing. There is only one direction in which to point a finger when you lose that badly and it's not at the opposing team. And to quote you, "it's as simple as that."

There is no competition if the score is that lobsided! The game becomes Mickey Mouse. Where I come from you don't run up the score, you protect a good lead. You respect your team, your opponents and your league. Where you come from you don't get it yet and maybe never will. You're selfish. You didn't read all the posts, I never agreed with monkey in the middle dumb___, and you're as simple as that. What level do you play and tell the truth? Anyone who can't understand that blowing a team out by 15 goals is a bad idea.........Why am I wasting time with this idiot?...........

 

[gojackets]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

The game is obviously different but not the philosophy behind your statement. Athletic competititon is athletic competition. Since I play myself, I feel quite comfortable in saying that I would rather get blown out by 15 goals than have an opponent play monkey in the middle with the puck or not play up to their potential - to me that's so much more disrespectful and demoralizing. There is only one direction in which to point a finger when you lose that badly and it's not at the opposing team. And to quote you, "it's as simple as that."

I didn't want to just be arguing with one person. So glad u joined in..lol


Canhock...I come from the world of competitive sports, where you play the game at your level not down to your opponents. You said its harder to protect a 4 touchdown lead than a 8 goal lead in hockey...because a touchdown is worth 6-8 points. Of course it is harder to protect, its only 4 scores as opposed to 8. Now I would say a 4 score touchdown lead is similar to a 4 score hockey lead...i don't see where point value of the score effects the ease of lead.

I've seen a team get up to a 6 goal lead and lose because they let up, let the other team score a goal or two, get confidence and get the win.

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that these aren't little girls. They are adult women. I think we sometimes forget that on this board. I rarely hear complaints about teams on the men's side (unless Adrian is involved) complain about a team putting a 16-20 goal win on someone. I see you must be a D1 parent...did you whine when Team USA put up a 13-0 shut out on St Cloud or a 11-1 win on NoDak...should Team USA have let up and made St Cloud feel good about themselves?

 

[nyi19]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

I didn't want to just be arguing with one person. So glad u joined in..lol


Canhock...I come from the world of competitive sports, where you play the game at your level not down to your opponents. You said its harder to protect a 4 touchdown lead than a 8 goal lead in hockey...because a touchdown is worth 6-8 points. Of course it is harder to protect, its only 4 scores as opposed to 8. Now I would say a 4 score touchdown lead is similar to a 4 score hockey lead...i don't see where point value of the score effects the ease of lead.

I've seen a team get up to a 6 goal lead and lose because they let up, let the other team score a goal or two, get confidence and get the win.

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that these aren't little girls. They are adult women. I think we sometimes forget that on this board. I rarely hear complaints about teams on the men's side (unless Adrian is involved) complain about a team putting a 16-20 goal win on someone.

What would be your basketball equivalent of a four score lead if you can compare all of these?

 

[gojackets]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

What would be your basketball equivalent of a four score lead if you can compare all of these?

haha I guess thats different, because you score 100 points a game. IF touchdowns were worth 1 pt...you'd have scores similar to hockey, wheres in basketball you wouldn't.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

I didn't want to just be arguing with one person. So glad u joined in..lol


Canhock...I come from the world of competitive sports, where you play the game at your level not down to your opponents. You said its harder to protect a 4 touchdown lead than a 8 goal lead in hockey...because a touchdown is worth 6-8 points. Of course it is harder to protect, its only 4 scores as opposed to 8. Now I would say a 4 score touchdown lead is similar to a 4 score hockey lead...i don't see where point value of the score effects the ease of lead.

I've seen a team get up to a 6 goal lead and lose because they let up, let the other team score a goal or two, get confidence and get the win.

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that these aren't little girls. They are adult women. I think we sometimes forget that on this board. I rarely hear complaints about teams on the men's side (unless Adrian is involved) complain about a team putting a 16-20 goal win on someone. I see you must be a D1 parent...did you whine when Team USA put up a 13-0 shut out on St Cloud or a 11-1 win on NoDak...should Team USA have let up and made St Cloud feel good about themselves?

That's not what I said at all. Read Pops Ryan's response a few times then maybe you'll start to clue in. Wow.... This has got nothing to do with gender pal, it's the game of HOCKEY!

 

[nyi19]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

haha I guess thats different, because you score 100 points a game. IF touchdowns were worth 1 pt...you'd have scores similar to hockey, wheres in basketball you wouldn't.

yeah. i still wonder what the incentive behind beating a team by so much is. honestly. Although I'm sure somewhere buried in the depths of tie-breaker land the is an asterisk saying the team with the highest goal differential among teams with sub .500 records who play in the metro-boston area gets home-ice...or something like that anyway.....

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

I've read plenty here and on other threads on the run up issue. I suspect the main reason I am a strong proponent of not running up the score is because that's the way I was taught by my peers & coaches...it just wasn't done because it was disrespectful to your opponent and crazy as it may seem, hockey folklore and Don Cherry will both tell you the hockey gods will eventually get you. Hockey Voo Doo, if you will.

There are arguments from the other side that are legitimate...like what do you do when your well ahead? Tough one to answer however I know it can be done without humiliating the other team. Make no mistake, it's in the coaches hands. I mean look at RIT leading 9 - 1 against Oswego the other night after 2...they won the game 10 -2. Kudo's to the RIT coach and his staff & players for pulling in the reigns.....But IMHO they did cause it sucks playing with a target on your back.

Yup "Hockey Voo Doo...."

 

[winsorhockeydad]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

It's a shame that this player doesn't have an ICE hockey team to play on anymore..

http://www.uscho.com/stats/gamebygame.php?player=7183&team=135&season=20082009&gender=w

Still at MIT though playing another sport...

http://www.mitathletics.com/sports/w-fieldh/2009-10/files/TEAMCUME.HTM

And playing the other sport well:

http://www.mitathletics.com/sports/w-fieldh/2009-10/releases/Klauber_110909

I wonder what happend to the other MIT players as well as the incoming frosh.

 

[le_fan39]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

Hey look, the big boys do it too! Make of this what you will, I suppose.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=300118018

Headline "Everyone scores as the Sharks Clobber Flames 9-1"

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

Hey look, the big boys do it too! Make of this what you will, I suppose.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=300118018

Headline "Everyone scores as the Sharks Clobber Flames 9-1"

le fan....This is professional hockey. The bottom place team could beat the top place team on any given night, for example, the Leafs beating Washington twice this season. We're talking about a team that is so bad that they have no chance. So what's the sense in beating up on a team like that. What have you really accomplished, think about it. Sportsmanship is more important than padding stats. That takes courage.

 

[zamboni99]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

As a person who has experienced both sides of this issue, these are my thoughts. (Please note, this is all subjective; these were my feelings at the time they occurred.)

As the spanker: Guilt. You feel so terrible that your team is of a higher caliber that you think the other team must feel terrible because you're easily beating them. You think the best thing to do would be to let up, pass the puck around, and try not to embarrass them even more on the scoresheet, because afterall, that's what will be reflected on later (i.e. league concerns, etc). Perhaps bordering on pity.

As the spankee: Frustration. It's tough to be playing a team that is a lot better than you, but it's a challenge and makes you focus more on the basics. You think that while telling your friends "Yeah, we were beaten 15-0 last night" will suck, it's going to be a lot more damaging to your self-esteem to say "Yeah, we were beaten 6-0 last night, but they weren't even trying." Perhaps bordering on envy.

To know that you're playing your heart out and the other team is just messing with you is the ultimate humiliation, moreso than any scoreboard could reflect. On the flip side, to know that you don't need to try very hard to easily defeat players who are trying their very hardest is the ultimate guilt-trip.

I don't know about you guys (and please pardon the incoming vulgarity), but I'd rather not get any at all than get a pity ****.

*Before questioning my "credentials" in this matter (as I've seen previously on the hockey forums), please note I've been playing hockey for about 16 years and even :gasp: played for my college *

 

[rinkrat890890]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

As a person who has experienced both sides of this issue, these are my thoughts. (Please note, this is all subjective; these were my feelings at the time they occurred.)

As the spanker: Guilt. You feel so terrible that your team is of a higher caliber that you think the other team must feel terrible because you're easily beating them. You think the best thing to do would be to let up, pass the puck around, and try not to embarrass them even more on the scoresheet, because afterall, that's what will be reflected on later (i.e. league concerns, etc). Perhaps bordering on pity.

*Before questioning my "credentials" in this matter (as I've seen previously on the hockey forums), please note I've been playing hockey for about 16 years and even :gasp: played for my college *

You serious? It's college hockey.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

I rarely hear complaints about teams on the men's side (unless Adrian is involved) complain about a team putting a 16-20 goal win on someone.

You should have seen the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the RIT men beat Neumann 24-0 several years ago, in Neumann's first year. (Thus the stunned reactions from RIT faithful when Neumann won the championship last year.)

I was not at the 17-point win by the RIT women this year, but I was at the 24-0 Neumann blowout and it's absolutely true that the only way to avoid scoring would have been to play keepaway in the neutral zone all night. It was that bad. Could the team have done that? Sure. Heck, RIT could have started scoring on their own net if the score was that important. But what's more important is respecting your opponent. And you don't respect your opponent by turning a game into practice by running 5-man drills.

Certainly it's possible to run up the score by continuing to play as hard as you would if you were behind and trying to tie the game. But that's not what happened against Neumann those many years ago, and I feel confident in stating that's not what happened this year in women's hockey, in either instance.


Powers &8^]

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: D3 Decisions: Running up the score

As a person who has experienced both sides of this issue, these are my thoughts. (Please note, this is all subjective; these were my feelings at the time they occurred.)

As the spanker: Guilt. You feel so terrible that your team is of a higher caliber that you think the other team must feel terrible because you're easily beating them. You think the best thing to do would be to let up, pass the puck around, and try not to embarrass them even more on the scoresheet, because afterall, that's what will be reflected on later (i.e. league concerns, etc). Perhaps bordering on pity.

As the spankee: Frustration. It's tough to be playing a team that is a lot better than you, but it's a challenge and makes you focus more on the basics. You think that while telling your friends "Yeah, we were beaten 15-0 last night" will suck, it's going to be a lot more damaging to your self-esteem to say "Yeah, we were beaten 6-0 last night, but they weren't even trying." Perhaps bordering on envy.

To know that you're playing your heart out and the other team is just messing with you is the ultimate humiliation, moreso than any scoreboard could reflect. On the flip side, to know that you don't need to try very hard to easily defeat players who are trying their very hardest is the ultimate guilt-trip.

I don't know about you guys (and please pardon the incoming vulgarity), but I'd rather not get any at all than get a pity ****.

*Before questioning my "credentials" in this matter (as I've seen previously on the hockey forums), please note I've been playing hockey for about 16 years and even :gasp: played for my college *

Instead of thinking that the team is messing with you, why not consider that they may be respecting you. If done correctly, it is easy to achieve (coaching thing again). It's YOUR thinking that creates the friction.