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D1 tryouts

Re: D1 tryouts

Brown Parent said:
The problem at Brown is not the caliber of player but rather the ability of the head coach to keep talent. A few years back, I compared rosters from year to year and was surprised to learn that Brown had the highest attrition rate in players and assistant coaches among all Ivies while its record continued to deteriorate. The only constant was the head coach. Either she has recruited the wrong players year after year, hired the wrong assistant coaches year after year or has mismanaged the program year after year. I suspect it’s a little bit of all of the above.

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This is an interesting point if it is true that attrition was consistently higher than other programs even when the program was winning. It would point to other issues, one of which we know is at least exacerbated by budget.

Two or three years ago, it surprised me a little to hear Digit say she was particularly interested in big strong players, something that did seem somewhat lacking on her team. I thought it a bit strange in that context though that their recruiting focus at that time (in Ontario at least where the grapevine is prolific) had been in pursuing several small quick players while equivalent big strong players had never been approached. It seemed there was an apparent disconnect between the Head Coach and her Assistant who was doing the recruiting. I have no idea is this was due to a lack of communication between them, or simply a difference in personal player preferences.

Since most head coaches (with a few notable exceptions) do not get involved much if at all in recruiting evaluation, it's critical that the assistants who are charged with this task are on the same page. I've often thought it would be really risky to join a team where the HC has never seen a player play prior to joining, though it actually happens a lot in many programs. Having assistants who are of a similar mindset, and/or have worked with or played for the HC for several years to know their preferences and peeves, increases the chances for good matches.

As has been stated before, budget issues at Brown have been an obstacle to adequate compensation for hiring assistants in recent years, as well as the size of the recruiting budget to allow evaluation. That might help explain reasons for short AC tenure, getting/keeping quality help that was also compatible with the coaches mindset, and/or lack of thoroughness in recruiting with one assistant spread too thin. It could also ultimately help explain a higher level of attrition down the road with players in the program.

I hope for everyone's sake the program is now getting back on the upswing. Time will tell if there are other issues as well.
 
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Re: D1 tryouts

With the exception of the one player who was their leading scorer last year, the other players not on the current roster at Brown, were "bubble" players who collectively contributed very little in points and playing time - without going into any personal info - just based on stats and games played. D-1 college players have a huge time commitment including weekend travel in addition to off-ice strength and conditioning that may not be as much "fun" if not balanced with playing time. For many other personal reasons that are part of the college experience, it is not that unexpected for upperclassmen to decide their college time is winding down and playing hockey loses its priority in the greater scheme of life endeavors..

Having surplus players who don't dress for games has its pros and cons - pros being that in case of injuries and/or motivation tool; cons creating some grumblings of discontent and disappointment... Unrealistic expectations and adjusting to a reduced role from being the big fish to one of the minnows, is a reality check for some and they get over it and move on. In the long run, team cuts may hurt at first, but in the long run can cut out some divisiveness and build up a struggling program. Sometimes it is needed for stronger healthier growth, like weeding the garden or pruning a tree..

Enough metaphors already!! But as a freshman you are coming in "fresh" you are only looking for trouble by badmouthing the coaching philosophy, especially on a public forum. You may think you are anonymous, but already don't be surprised how many have checked through the roster and tried to determine who you are!!!

Word of advice -- keep your distance and let go. Be supportive and not critical and don't be a helicopter parent - your daughter will have to live and deal with it not you. She may actually benefit if she survived the try-out cut and have a better opportunity for playing time with a reduced roster anyway.. Just accept this as her realm and be there in the stands or watch on-line... Don't create any awkward moments - just enjoy every chance you can. The college years go by so very,very fast = you blink and and then they are gone and you only have memories - try to make them positive and not regrets.
 
Re: D1 tryouts

sheba said:
With the exception of the one player who was their leading scorer last year, the other players not on the current roster at Brown, were "bubble" players who collectively contributed very little in points and playing time - without going into any personal info - just based on stats and games played. D-1 college players have a huge time commitment including weekend travel in addition to off-ice strength and conditioning that may not be as much "fun" if not balanced with playing time. For many other personal reasons that are part of the college experience, it is not that unexpected for upperclassmen to decide their college time is winding down and playing hockey loses its priority in the greater scheme of life endeavors..
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I believe this is especially true at an Ivy. While the hockey commitment may be the same within other D1 programs, I would expect the academic workload to be higher (not having attended an Ivy, I can't say for sure in relation to other top scools).

Absolutely agree with your post!
 
Re: D1 tryouts

sheba said:
With the exception of the one player who was their leading scorer last year, the other players not on the current roster at Brown, were "bubble" players who collectively contributed very little in points and playing time - without going into any personal info - just based on stats and games played. D-1 college players have a huge time commitment including weekend travel in addition to off-ice strength and conditioning that may not be as much "fun" if not balanced with playing time. For many other personal reasons that are part of the college experience, it is not that unexpected for upperclassmen to decide their college time is winding down and playing hockey loses its priority in the greater scheme of life endeavors..

So, if the only players who were cut are "bubble players", it doesn't say much for the coaches (Digit) who recruited them. We can't be watching the same games. The ones you call "weeded" or "pruned" had skill, character, endurance. They should NOT have been cut. And when does a leading scorer "quit" - which begs the question: Where did she go?
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Re: D1 tryouts

Sorry, I've been out of circulation for a few days so I haven't followed up on any responses. For those of you who replied in earnest, I sincerely appreciate your input.

For those of you who feel the need to preach - don't bother. I've asked a simple question regarding Ivy League (a scene I am new to) dynamics. If you don't want to answer, then don't - but spare me the theatrical, nose-in-the-air diatribes. Thank you.
 
Re: D1 tryouts

ccookie79 said:
Sorry, I've been out of circulation for a few days so I haven't followed up on any responses. For those of you who replied in earnest, I sincerely appreciate your input.

For those of you who feel the need to preach - don't bother. I've asked a simple question regarding Ivy League (a scene I am new to) dynamics. If you don't want to answer, then don't - but spare me the theatrical, nose-in-the-air diatribes. Thank you.
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Wow, if your daughter takes feedback as well as you, I think you are right to worry...
 
Re: D1 tryouts

ccookie79 said:
Sorry, I've been out of circulation for a few days so I haven't followed up on any responses. For those of you who replied in earnest, I sincerely appreciate your input.

For those of you who feel the need to preach - don't bother. I've asked a simple question regarding Ivy League (a scene I am new to) dynamics. If you don't want to answer, then don't - but spare me the theatrical, nose-in-the-air diatribes. Thank you.
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I read this thread with much interest, you have some very good advice here cookie, I suggest that you pay attention,

from a parent who has been there
 
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Re: D1 tryouts

Justamom said:
I read this thread with much interest, you have some very good advice here cookie, I suggest that you pay attention,

from a parent who has been there
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As I said, not new to the game, not new to parenting, not new to sports - just new to the Ivy League. I can clearly see some vitriolic criticism - not for my actions, but for my thoughts. If the crime is in being pre-emptive in my course of action, then I'm guilty as charged.
 
Re: D1 tryouts

ccookie79 said:
As I said, not new to the game, not new to parenting, not new to sports - just new to the Ivy League. I can clearly see some vitriolic criticism - not for my actions, but for my thoughts. If the crime is in being pre-emptive in my course of action, then I'm guilty as charged.
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The only things D1 about Ivy League hockey is the hockey itself (who you play) and the particular NCAA rules that govern recruiting. Otherwise it is just like D3 hockey. You play at the pleasure of the coach. Your FA is not at the whim of the coach. You aren't obligated to play, once you are step onto campus.

I'm sure I am at least one of the posters whose criticism you characterize as vitriolic. If that is the case, don't even look at the men's side of USCHO.

Your first post came off as indignant as well as ignorant (look at the first sentence of this thread for that clue). Ignorance is fine. Lots of people here willing to answer questions (including myself, although this isn't one of my particular specialties).

Not a lot of people take kindly to the indignant part when combined with ignorance.

You didn't know that Digit holds tryouts. I'm sorry you didn't ask that question up front. Now that you are surprised, I think embarassment about not having asked the question earlier would be a more natural (and acceptable) reaction to the situation you are in. So far you haven't picked up on that nuance. You've come off as angry and deceived that your daughter may not have her dream of playing 4 years at Brown and are transferring your blame for that situation to Digit. We've pointed out that this situation is normal for D1 hockey (and for that matter D3 hockey as well).

So you decide to become indignant with the folks who are pointing out the obvious. Not sure what audience you are playing to here...
 
Re: D1 tryouts

ccookie79 said:
As I said, not new to the game, not new to parenting, not new to sports - just new to the Ivy League. I can clearly see some vitriolic criticism - not for my actions, but for my thoughts. If the crime is in being pre-emptive in my course of action, then I'm guilty as charged.
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The part of the first sentence that says "just new to the Ivy League". What exactly does that mean? Do you think Ivy League (as in ECAC) is different then say, Hockey East? Not sure what you mean by that.
 
Re: D1 tryouts

rinkrat890890 said:
The part of the first sentence that says "just new to the Ivy League". What exactly does that mean? Do you think Ivy League (as in ECAC) is different then say, Hockey East? Not sure what you mean by that.
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Well everybody already knows that ECAC is way better than HE, so it would have to be something other than that.... :D :p ;)
 
Re: D1 tryouts

Trillium said:
In fairness, would it not be far more unusual if there was not a higher rate of attrition among programs at the bottom of the standings if they are determined to improve??? As I recall, considerable attrition also occurred at North Dakota, Cornell, Union and Quinnipiac among other programs in recent years before their teams started to get better, and most observers did not knock their coaches for this.

Her personality and style may not be to everyone's taste, but she can hardly be accused of hiding her true nature to her recruits. And she's certainly not the only coach with that sort of passionate style who has managed to achieve continued records of success either, when given competitive levels of financial support.
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OnMAA said:
Followed by this response.....



I'm joining Gotice in the LMAO department. :D :D :D

While I'm as far removed from an english major as you can be, English is not even my native language, this response was indeed funny !.

Trillium nailed it !, hcky85 did not get it !, Hux Smacked it !. everybody else loved it !.
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The double negative's with not and unusual, but like you said, you're far removed from an english major.

But I didn’t say differences in financial capabilities don’t exist, just meant they are similar in the way they give need based aid instead of scholarships. Endowment per student among the ivies are Princeton-$2.23 million, Yale-$2.00 million, Harvard-$1.90 million, Dartmouth- $625,748 Brown-$336,354, Cornell-$271,970. But even with that said, I doubt brown’s lower level of endowments is a reason their hockey program’s struggling. If hockey rankings matched the rankings of financial aid, than it might be a factor. Or if hockey ranking were similar between both the men’s and the women’s, seeing financial restrictions at a school would have to affect both to an extent. But nether is true. Dartmouth’s teams are both far better than their financial status would indicate. Cornell’s men’s and women’s team are at opposite ends of rankings. And Yale’s women’s team has only been in the top 3 once in the history of the program.

Ivies stopped being able to match other school’s financial packages in ’91. This happened to be almost the exact same time when both Brown and Dartmouth started to climb the standings, despite their lower endowments. The only trend that’s indisputable is that at each Ivy League school, there has basically been a constant rise in the standings, from each current coach’s first year up until last season. There’s just one exception, that being Brown in the past three years. So it’s hard to say coaching isn’t the problem even if all of the negative gossip about them is ignored. And Digit did apply for different jobs the past two years, so if people at Brown don’t want her there and she doesn’t want to be at brown, than why is she?
 
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