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Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

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Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Kepler said:
My guess is it is the cop's judgment when the action is "over." It could be hard to tell when the target has lost consciousness and you do not want to get within lunging distance to reenact the last scene of every horror movie.
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I suppose, but at what point does that period run out? I thought I saw stories that this guy was actually alive when they put him in the ambulance, but died on the way to the hospital.
 
Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Kepler said:
My guess is it is the cop's judgment when the action is "over." It could be hard to tell when the target has lost consciousness and you do not want to get within lunging distance to reenact the last scene of every horror movie.
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That wouldnt hold water though because we see cops all the time check for a pulse after they shoot someone. They just didnt care...

So wait...is Hovey now a Cop Hating Crony too? :eek:
 
Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Handyman said:
That wouldnt hold water though because we see cops all the time check for a pulse after they shoot someone.
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I thought protocol was the first cop is in charge of security, period. He's not even going to go over to your injured grandmother, he's going to stay covering the target. If there are other cops, they tend to victims, check on the target, etc.

e.g., DHS handbook for how to survive a shooting situation stresses that the first responding officer will not administer first aid -- he's basically on point to make sure the area is secure, which then gives other responders the safety to see to the wounded.
 
Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Handyman said:
To be fair, premeditation can happen in the moment so to speak. For example if he was driving around, saw the dude and said "I am going to kill that guy" and then did it (no that would be dumb on video ;) ) that would be premeditated.

For point of fact here is the Illinois requirements for Murder 1:

They could definitely argue that a cop, trained in the art of using force, would know that his actions would kill or do great bodily harm. With that standard you can absolutely argue he should be charged with Murder 1.
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That's a pretty loose definition of M1. I guess I'm more of a believer that M1 requires planning and forethought. So in court, you would need to prove the person had planned to kill someone, not even that specific person, to get the conviction.

Oddly enough, M2 in Illinois uses the same language:
murder in Illinois, except that it is has certain mitigating circumstances which lessen the charge to second degree murder. Under Illinois second degree murder laws, in order to get a conviction for the offense, the prosecutor must show beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant killed an individual without lawful justification and either:

Intended to kill or do great bodily harm to that individual (or knew that the act would do so); or
Knows that the acts create a strong probability of causing death or great bodily harm to the individual.

If the prosecutor is able to prove either of the above two circumstances, it is the defendant's duty to prove either of the following mitigating circumstances for second degree murder (if he cannot, he can be convicted of first degree murder instead):

At the time of the killing, he/she was acting under a sudden and intense passion due to being seriously provoked by either the victim or another person whom the defendant tried to kill but negligently ended up killing the victim instead; or
At the time of the killing, he/she believed that the killing would have been lawfully justified but the belief was unreasonable.

To be seriously provoked, the provoking conduct of the victim (or another person) must be something that would cause any reasonable person to become impassioned. It is important to note that the defendant is responsible for showing proof of either of the mitigating circumstances. If he/she is unable to do so, the prosecutor may successfully charge him/her with first degree murder. This is a far more serious crime in Illinois since Illinois is a capital punishment state and there is possibility that the defendant could get the death penalty if found guilty
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The key is this:
At the time of the killing, he/she believed that the killing would have been lawfully justified but the belief was unreasonable.

So I don't see how they can prove the cop knew that it wasn't unjustified. Rather, I think it would be very difficult. It seems like textbook M2.
 
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Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Kepler said:
My guess is it is the cop's judgment when the action is "over." It could be hard to tell when the target has lost consciousness and you do not want to get within lunging distance to reenact the last scene of every horror movie.
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Well, that, or they could see that he was dead because he had been shot over a dozen times. Maybe one of those was clearly fatal. Either way... :(
 
Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Update from Chicago on the Laquan McDonald shooting: The officer who emptied his weapon into McDonald was being held without bail until the bench judge could review the dash cam video yesterday morning. Sometime yesterday, the judge then set the bail to $1.5 Million. Officer Van Dyke posted bail (somehow found $150,000 cash) and is now awaiting his trial.

The Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy then went on the defensive of the department last night/this morning: (emphasis mine)
The superintendent tells CBS 2’s Mai Martinez his hands effectively have been tied. He says he viewed the dash-cam video of the fatal shooting within a couple of days of McDonald’s death.

“It’s obviously a terrible video, and obviously a terrible tragedy. When I learned the circumstances of Mr. McDonald’s life — that he was a ward of the state at the time — and the troubles that he had had growing up, I thought that the whole thing was a tragedy,” McCarthy says.

As for his officer, McCarthy says, “I knew that it was problematic for the officer because it’s going to be hard to articulate why you fired so many rounds.”
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The superintendent says he immediately stripped Van Dyke of his police powers. Legally, McCarthy says, that’s all he could do. “I couldn’t fire him. I couldn’t put him in a ‘no pay’ status. I couldn’t discipline him. That’s the law,” he says. “It was not the Chicago Police Department investigating this incident.” Instead, the Independent Police Review Authority began investigating, which is the normal protocol when an officer shoots a suspect. IPRA alerted federal and state investigators after reviewing the dash-cam video.

McCarthy has said he will not resign over the McDonald shooting but concedes “it’s a very high-charged political atmosphere that we’re living in right now.”
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And just now:
Mayor Rahm Emanuel announced Tuesday that Police Supt. Garry McCarthy is out
Acknowledging faith in the department has “eroded” in the wake of the Laquan McDonald scandal, the mayor said he asked for McCarthy’s resignation Tuesday morning. First Deputy Supt. John Escalante will serve as acting superintendent while the Chicago Police Board conducts a national search for a permanent replacement for McCarthy.

The mayor said McCarthy has been an “excellent leader of our police department over the past 4 ½ years,” but said “now is the time for fresh eyes and new leadership.”
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Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

As a refresher, Garry McCarthy was already creating sweeping changes to the department when this explosive Chicago Magazine article was published in the Spring of 2014. And I use sweeping on purpose due to his "reclassification" of certain crimes to make the numbers appear better.

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/May-2014/Chicago-crime-rates/
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/June-2014/Chicago-crime-statistics/

Both parts are long, but VERY much worth reading.

McCarthy defended the very act of reclassifying crimes later that summer.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ing-faults-media-coverage-20140801-story.html
 
Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Wow...talk about the dude being out of touch.
 
Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Cops shoot a man who had a straight-razor, etc etc. The guy who shot the video (a brotha, btw) seems to be on the cops' side, as they appeared to try and calm the man down, gave him more than enough time to put the weapon down, all that jazz. Oh, and the guy who was shot tried to rob a bank a bit earlier:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/05/us/miami-beach-police-shooting/index.html
 
Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

If they had that much time they couldn't use mace or tazers?
 
Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Slap Shot said:
If they had that much time they couldn't use mace or tazers?
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From the video I saw, they couldn't/didn't want to get close enough...

I'm sure more details will come out, of course. I personally found it interesting that the guy who shot the video was supportive of the cops. He tried to soften his stance, but IMO you could tell that he wanted to flat out say that the cops were in the right.
 
Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

The prosecution has rested in Freddy Grey #1. Reports seem to say it was not their finest hour(s).
 
Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Milhous weighs in on the current situation in Chicago

Richard M. Nixon ‏@dick_nixon 10:35
If Emanuel makes it to Christmas, he's free.

Richard M. Nixon ‏@dick_nixon 10:39
If the Mayor of Chicago is the Pope, the Aldermen are cardinals. No Alderman wants to lose his job.
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Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Rahm skates. Even after the new video this week of the kid being shot a week prior to Laquan McDonald; the video of Phillip Coleman being tasered, choked, and dragged from his cell (the son of a Chicago Housing Authority officer); and the Chicago police commander accused of sticking the barrel of his firearm "down a suspects throat."


AND.... an ugly detail is primed to explode with all the new Federal inquiries... The "off the books" Chicago PD detention center located in a former factory in the Homan Square neighborhood is making a comeback in light of all the investigations.

For those who wonder why this is relevant, Homan Square is one of the rougher neighborhoods in the area. Everyone thinks the "south side" of Chicago is the sh*t hole of the city, but the west side is the more dangerous neighborhoods. And apparently the cops utilized this old factory as a way to leverage information from some of the "locals" on the west side.
 
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