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College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

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Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Slap Shot said:
btw - as much as the BCS blows, it could be made slightly better by both of the following:

1) No polls before the BCS comes out.

2) Voters should be willing to move a team up or down week to week more than they do now. An NFL "power rating" may be somewhat of a joke, but it seems far more likely to adapt to changes in perceptions about a team's relative strength.
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The mythical national championship only came to public perception as a by-product of polls, which themselves were created as an excuse to sell newspapers. Up until the 70's nobody even really seriously claimed to be national champion -- it was recognized to be fluff.

Folding the sport back on itself for the sake of "a national championship" is the ultimate tail wagging the dog. May as well just have ESPN award the national title based on ad revenue.
 
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Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Golden Tate played with probably the best QB in college football this season with an offense completely geared to the pass. I wonder how he would do with a different QB.

I'll say this, Gerhart is the best RB in the country this year, I've watched both he and Ingram several times this year. Gerhart had the entire defense focused on him: defenses would stack the box with 9 or 10 guys and dare him to run, and he would! He would run all over every defense he faced, often being hit at the line and running over his would be tacklers.

One of his TDs against USC he just steamrolled Taylor Mays, likely a first round pick out of USC.

Kid is amazing. Ingram didn't play as good competition defensively and did less. But because his team is better he'll win.

It is an individual award: and he is the best individual offensive player in the country. This isn't about how many losses your team has or how well your skills will translate to the NFL. This is about how you played this season, and Gerhart played outstanding football: it's not his fault his team spit the bit against other teams, he did his job.
 
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Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Craig P. said:
I can't complain about Gerhart or Suh. Ingram, I guess. Tebow and McCoy, not so much. I still think Tate should be finishing first or second.
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As much as Tate is a bona-fide talent, he didn't do anything to either keep ND from losing more than six games or winning more than six games. It has to be based on something more than individual stats. Heisman trophies are awarded to players that have some mystical perception, the X factor so to speak, and Tate doesn't have it. Doesn't mean this crop of players have it either, but their impact to their team seems to be a bit grander than Tate.
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Terrierbyassociation said:
It is an individual award: and he is the best individual offensive player in the country. This isn't about how many losses your team has or how well your skills will translate to the NHL. This is about how you played this season, and Gerhart played outstanding football: it's not his fault his team spit the bit against other teams, he did his job.
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I'm sorry what? :confused: :D
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Terrierbyassociation said:
Golden Tate played with probably the best QB in college football this season with an offense completely geared to the pass. I wonder how he would do with a different QB.
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There's no question that having Clausen helped him, but at the same time, Tate had to deal with defenses setting up to try to take him away for half the season (he was by far ND's most dangerous threat on offense while Floyd was out) and he did some of his most impressive work either going up for a ball in traffic or after the catch, neither of which was really created by Clausen.

(Plus, he had the onside kick recovery vs. Navy and the punt return TD vs. Pitt.)

streaker said:
As much as Tate is a bona-fide talent, he didn't do anything to either keep ND from losing more than six games or winning more than six games. It has to be based on something more than individual stats. Heisman trophies are awarded to players that have some mystical perception, the X factor so to speak, and Tate doesn't have it. Doesn't mean this crop of players have it either, but their impact to their team seems to be a bit grander than Tate.
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I'm not sure how much more Tate could have done. There's no question in my mind that we wouldn't have won six games without him, nor would we have come as close to winning as we did in some of the losses (all of which were close)—see above. I think the perception of the lack of an "x factor" comes from the fact that with ND losing, a lot of eyes went to other games, there was a palpable excitement in ND stadium every time he touched the ball and I don't know how you get more "mystical x factor" than that.
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

If Fitzgerald didn't win the thing catching passes from Rod freaking Rutherford, Tate never had a chance. You're six years late on the argument.
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

bronconick said:
If Fitzgerald didn't win the thing catching passes from Rod freaking Rutherford, Tate never had a chance. You're six years late on the argument.
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True.

Was it Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, or someone else that led to Ciskie swearing off referring to it as the Heisman forever?
 
I've never heard Tate mentioned anywhere but here and while neither Tebow nor McCoy should win it this year, Tate at #2 overall? Put away the bong water.

btw - the BCS 'system' didn't select Boise and TCU to the same bowl game, they were invited and accepted. I wonder if one of them could have said, "no" in hopes of getting an alternate invite against an upper conference team.

Kepler said:
The mythical national championship only came to public perception as a by-product of polls, which themselves were created as an excuse to sell newspapers. Up until the 70's nobody even really seriously claimed to be national champion -- it was recognized to be fluff.

Folding the sport back on itself for the sake of "a national championship" is the ultimate tail wagging the dog. May as well just have ESPN award the national title based on ad revenue.
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The polls started decades earlier than the 70's (although that may not be your point) and I'm not defending the BCS itself (it blows) but if we're going to be stuck with it I simply feel those two tweaks could at least improve it some. Yeah I know, "makeup on a pig" but it'd be a bit nicer to look at. ;)
 
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Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

UMDBulldogHockeyIsKing said:
I anticipate the voting going:

1 Ingram
2 Gerhart
3 Suh
4 Tebow
5 McCoy

4 and 5 have no business being finalists this year IMO. Golden Tate really belonged there over those two.
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McCoy didn't have as good a year as last year and it looked like Nebraska defense totally caught him off guard, but have you seen his number, they're still Heisman worthy.
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Slap Shot said:
I've never heard Tate mentioned anywhere but here and while neither Tebow nor McCoy should win it this year, Tate at #2 overall?
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Tate actually does get play on the national media. He isn't going to win, so the tHaters should relax.
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

jerphisch said:
What's the point of having the computers at all when you limit them to looking only at win/loss. If you look at model that use margin of victory Cincinatti gets a lot less respect.
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Yeah. You wonder what the polls would look like if voters only got to see who won and who lost each game - no scores, no knowledge of which team was at home, injuries, fluke plays, great performances, bad weather, a score that's closer than the run of play would have you believe, etc.

The idea that you'd give the computer rankings some weight, but then hamstring them by purposefully limiting the data they can use is just stupid.
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Harbaugh is set to interview for the ND job. Good thing he just signed that extension with Stanford. :D
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Terrierbyassociation said:
Harbaugh is set to interview for the ND job. Good thing he just signed that extension with Stanford. :D
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Interesting. While a part of me would love to see the Cardinal go right back into the tank, another part enjoys having a rival thats not just a conference punching bag. It certainly made Last month all the sweeter :D.
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Craig P. said:
There's no question that having Clausen helped him, but at the same time, Tate had to deal with defenses setting up to try to take him away for half the season (he was by far ND's most dangerous threat on offense while Floyd was out) and he did some of his most impressive work either going up for a ball in traffic or after the catch, neither of which was really created by Clausen.

(Plus, he had the onside kick recovery vs. Navy and the punt return TD vs. Pitt.)



I'm not sure how much more Tate could have done. There's no question in my mind that we wouldn't have won six games without him, nor would we have come as close to winning as we did in some of the losses (all of which were close)—see above. I think the perception of the lack of an "x factor" comes from the fact that with ND losing, a lot of eyes went to other games, there was a palpable excitement in ND stadium every time he touched the ball and I don't know how you get more "mystical x factor" than that.
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Tate still had an NFL quality QB throwing to him. The six losses hurt them, whether it was their fault or not.

Does Tebow have NFL quality receivers? (probably) or is it more his ability to run?

McCoy was ordained the next coming since he was a freshman. He may have decent stats, but I'm not that impressed.

I'd still take one of the two running backs, if anything, they carried their teams to big victories.

Oh, and Craig, to your point on Tate being an X factor- I'm talking about Rocket Ishmail type impact, Charles Woodson type impact... they changed the complexion of games, changed the way that teams defensed or ran their offense towards these players... and they also took their teams to the pinnacle w/o having any other "impact" NFL type offensive players throwing to them or surrounding them, on offense, at least.
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

streaker said:
Oh, and Craig, to your point on Tate being an X factor- I'm talking about Rocket Ishmail type impact, Charles Woodson type impact... they changed the complexion of games, changed the way that teams defensed or ran their offense towards these players... and they also took their teams to the pinnacle w/o having any other "impact" NFL type offensive players throwing to them or surrounding them, on offense, at least.
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Speaking of Charles Woodson, for anybody who didn't see this last night, this is why he is one of the best if not the best DB this year in the NFL at 33.

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Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Slap Shot said:
Is this true or did they simply do nothing about it period? The NCAA never awarded a Div I trophy to begin with and afaic they still don't.
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Sure they do. the D1 trophy goes to the FCS/1-AA champion.
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Remember that a playoff would adversely effect the academic careers of the players. They'd have to miss all of those difficult classes outside linebackers are famed for taking. Well, uh, yeah...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/ncaa/12/08/alabama.classes.ap/index.html

Good to see the administrations of BCS powers would never short change academics for football. Never.
 
Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

BoomGoestheDynamite said:
Remember that a playoff would adversely effect the academic careers of the players. They'd have to miss all of those difficult classes outside linebackers are famed for taking. Well, uh, yeah...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/ncaa/12/08/alabama.classes.ap/index.html

Good to see the administrations of BCS powers would never short change academics for football. Never.
Click to expand...

"It's OK if EVERYONE at the school misses class though." - BCS knucklehead
 
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