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College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

Fun bracket fact:

In my 478 player pool, the current leader (and would-be winner if Butler wins the title) had Kansas. Based on tiebreaker, 2nd place could also be a Kansas national title pick. I think a 3rd person could cash that had Kansas as well (top 6 paid).

And I bet those guys haven't looked much at the standings since the first weekend.
 
Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

JF_Gophers said:
I don't think this is accurate, considering two of them lost to mid-major type teams and the 3rd lost to WVU who Duke just blew out. On paper it was easy, but we all know they don't play on paper, they play on TV.

This year was a weak year for #1 seeds across the board. There was no clear cut favorite like there is the women's game.
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West Virginia was also playing without its starting point guard and they lost their best player with 8 minutes to go.

Duke's bracket was cake, they played their first good team Saturday and won. We'll see what happens tonight.

Northern Iowa was grossly underseeded. They had the longest winning streak in the country going at one point. Butler, was ranked in the top 10 this year.
 
Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

Handyman said:
So let me get this straight, Coach K has the power to rig everything basically and every other coach just sits by and lets it go? Yeah sorry but there is no way that would happen these coaches whine when another coach sends to many texts to a player yet some of you assume that they just bow at the alter of K.

The theory has come up a few times during the last week and it just makes no sense. People hate Duke, people deny Duke is any good but then when they prove they are they obviously are cheating or have an advantage. It can't be that they won the games Coach K had to pull some strings.

Let me put it another way, going into the tourny all the haters said Duke had no shot at the Final Four and was a weak #1 and yada yada yada but strangely the conspiracy theories were nowhere to be found. Where was the schmuck on ESPN talking about how Duke WOULD make it because Coach K has all the power? Nowhere to be found because it is all smoke and mirrors.

And still no one has answered the question, if Coach K is this powerful and can basically hand pick the refs for his games and get every call, why has he not had a team make the final Four since 2004? I mean the way it sounds he should have no problem cakewalking in since it is obvious he the most powerful man in basketball, the NCAA wants him to win as does ESPN so shouldn't they just always be there?
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I think you are exaggerating the situation to make it seem ridiculous...the college basketball guy on ESPN didnt say the games were rigged or that Duke controlled who won the game...and nobody in their right mind would agree with that assertion. I'm of a mind that duke does seem to get the key call at the right time but turning that into the game is fixed is not at all what I was saying.

His point was that Coach K has the highest level of influence of any coach in the country and at a key juncture or on a key call, he may get the benefit that a lesser known coach wouldn't.

I think we could all agree that this could apply to many coaches, in many sports. Basketball is unique in terms of proximity but we all know that this situation could occur in hockey too.

A guy I worked with for many years is a D1AA football referee. He had plenty of stories about coaches sending in tape and complaints to the head of officials and those same coaches remembering the offending ref for years. How could it impact a football ref? Pre-season intra-squad scrimmages...you dont' get asked to do them if the coach thinks you screwed him last year. Post season, you get enough noise into the head of officials and the crew doesn't get selected for the playoffs. Lastly, they review each ref and each team for renewal the next year...according to him today, absolutely one coach could influence whether you were back. Not the rookie coach at the last place team...but certainly the top dogs could have enough clout to make it easier for the head guy to not invite you back.

So, don't turn that into me saying it is a grand conspiracy...I know it benefits BU when Jack Parker lights up the refs and then gets two key calls late in a game, I'm sure Red Auerbach had some influence over the refs, Phil Jackson gets some slack...doesn't seem so hard to believe that one key call could be influenced...they wouldn't get the intentional T's or get thrown out of games if they didn't think the next close play would be influenced.
 
Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

unofan said:
First off, both UNI and Butler were both grossly underseeded as midmajors tend to be - and in that respect, Duke got the only bracket without any major underseeded midmajor landmines (see UNI, Butler, Cornell - even Old Dominion and St. Mary's were on the other side, and could only face Duke in the Elite 8) awaiting them, just lots of middling major conference teams that probably were overseeded if anything.
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They were grossly under seeded in hindsight. A 5 seed for Butler was perfectly acceptable prior to the tourney starting. UNI did not play a great schedule, so there was no reason to think they should be a higher seed going in either.

Going into the tourney Duke arguably had the toughest 8/9 second round matchup (Cal/Lou). UK had the easiest (Tex/Wake). Then the possibly difficulty of facing 2 other Big East teams or the upstart St. Mary's/ODU teams in the 4th game.
 
Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

JF_Gophers said:
They were grossly under seeded in hindsight. A 5 seed for Butler was perfectly acceptable prior to the tourney starting. UNI did not play a great schedule, so there was no reason to think they should be a higher seed going in either.
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I disagree. Butler was a preseason Top 10 team that was still ranked 8th by the time the tournament started. UNI was likewise in the Top 25 most of the season and swept the MVC regular season and post-season titles (and did so going away, not an easy thing to do even in a relatively down year for the Valley). A crap-ton (yes, that's an official scientific statistical term) of people were saying Cornell would do damage in the tournament all the way back in November.

I'd say that means that even using foresight, people knew they could do damage.

And yes, I know, the polls don't matter. But the media and coaches were saying Butler would've been a 2- or 3-seed (and UNI a 6-7 seed) in their eyes when the tournament started. That's hardly hindsight.

Nor does it change the fact that Duke had the easiest route to the Final Four.
 
Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

pirate said:
So, don't turn that into me saying it is a grand conspiracy...I know it benefits BU when Jack Parker lights up the refs and then gets two key calls late in a game, I'm sure Red Auerbach had some influence over the refs, Phil Jackson gets some slack...doesn't seem so hard to believe that one key call could be influenced...they wouldn't get the intentional T's or get thrown out of games if they didn't think the next close play would be influenced.
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I wasn't saying you believed that stuff, just used what you had posted to show the absurdity of what some people seem to assert about it. Successful coaches and players in all sports tend to get the calls when the team is doing well...NBA basketball being the worst of them all. No one denies that I see it every game in every sport I watch. (The Greg Maddux strikezone is still the most obvious example ever) It usually tends to even itself out though if you look in the long term.

Some people have said that Duke handpicks its refs, that is game rigging. To believe that other coaches would allow for that is ludicrous as are some of the other assertions like "the refs wont call fouls on Duke because Coach K runs USA Basketball". They didnt seem to have an issue calling them for fouls last year when the team wasn't that great.

As for the "grossly underseeded" teams, it is funny that I don't remember any of you whining about how low they were seeded when the brackets came out. I doubt any of you thought that the "Underseeded and Underappreciated" UNI had a chance to stay within 20 of Kansas or that Butler would make the Final Four LET ALONE the Championship Game. Yes in hindsight you can say it was bad but don't pretend you always thought it that way. It is an excuse, a rationalization to explain an outcome you don't like. We all do it, doesnt make it valid. (like when the Gophers beat Butler, for a couple weeks the excuse was Butler was overranked since the Gophers werent that good as proven the next couple nights losing to Portland and I believe A&M)
 
Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

Handyman said:
As for the "grossly underseeded" teams, it is funny that I don't remember any of you whining about how low they were seeded when the brackets came out.
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Why bother when it's hardly a new phenomenon and the same thing happens year after year? The next time I see a good mid-major team receive a proper seed will be the first. You switch Duke and Butler's resumes, and Duke probably still gets a 2-seed and Butler probably gets a 3-seed at best.

Reason #19453 why I wish the selection committee removed conference and team names from resumes during the selection process. Let the numbers speak for themselves.
 
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Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

unofan said:
Why bother when it's hardly a new phenomenon and the same thing happens year after year? The next time I see a good mid-major team receive a proper seed will be the first. You switch Duke and Butler's resumes, and Duke probably still gets a 2-seed and Butler probably gets a 3-seed at best.

Reason #19453 why I wish the selection committee removed conference and team names from resumes during the selection process. Let the numbers speak for themselves.
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PWR for EVERYONE!!!!!! :D
 
Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

unofan said:
Reason #19453 why I wish the selection committee removed conference and team names from resumes during the selection process. Let the numbers speak for themselves.
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Always a good idea although it does create some problems as well. No way is perfect and we all know the whiners will whine :)
 
Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

I saw this movie last year, and unless they changed the script in the remake, Duke wins by a bajillion.
 
Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

Way too many white boys on this court.
 
Re: College Basketball 2009-10: The Road to the Road to Lucas Oil

mcfarljd said:
No need, they make sure we've got that down beforehand. Just wondering what your problem is with white guys playing basketball?
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Wow. I'm amazed. This is impressive.
 
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