CCHA teams will join WCHA

[Goon]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

What part of outside hockey do you not get?
Hockey fans know St. Cloud too.
Hockey fans are going to watch regardless, that doesn't make you high profile.

I would make a friendly wager that more fans are going to watch a game between UND and DU, UMD and Miami or Miami and UND than SCSU and MSU-M. UND and DU games are already on FCS and FSNRM.

 

[Goon]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

I'll bet BGSU joins up too...

From reading the BGSU hockey beat writers blog post it appears that they are also taking a wait and see approach like WMU, but they appear they are leaning towards the WCHA.

 

[First Time Long Time]

I would make a friendly wager that more fans are going to watch a game between UND and DU, UMD and Miami or Miami and UND than SCSU and MSU-M. UND and DU games are already on FCS and FSNRM.

And? BC/UW in the National Title game drew a 1.0 rating.
Those two schools have a way bigger national draw than UND does.
I know my school isn't a national draw.
Put it this way, take 50 non hockey fans in any city in the country and ask them who UND is and what sport they are known for, you think more than 5 to 10% can even tell you who UND is?
Now take 50 non sports fans in any city and ask them who Notre Dame is or what the Big Ten is, and i'd bet better than 75% would be able to tell you.
That's a national profile, and UND does not have that.

 

[Priceless]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

If you asked about "UND" most will think you're talking about Notre Dame.

 

[MichFan]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

HEA has had an odd number before and is more likely to stay at 11 than add a 12th team if Notre Dame comes east. Is there anyone in the AHA or ECAC that is available (Ivy League schools need not apply) and would add anything to the HEA brand? UConn? They're not ready for Hockey East. RPI? Union? I don't see it. Also, the presidents and AD's know (and at BC, York will inform them) that Notre Dame may very well go to the Integer in a few years, which would again leave HEA with 11 teams. Better to stay at 11 until the ND situation is sorted out and add a 12th team later if necessary.

A month ago, I would have laughed at this. Notre Dame is not going to the Big 10 (or otherwise giving up its independence) unless the college football world changes significantly, i.e. 16 team super conferences that would leave ND on the outside.

Of course, now that Texas A&M is threatening to go the SEC, another round of football realignment could be coming, and 16 team superconferences are in the picture again, so ND could end up in the B10 yet, along with God knows who else. I am highly skeptical that the B10 would take UConn, even if it goes to 16, but some said last year that UConn is on the short list. Events outside the college hockey world could still affect hockey alignment over the next 2-3 years...a BTHC with ND and UConn? Unlikely, but not out of the question.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

So you say that the NCHC teams aren't big time schools and they are not high profile, you can't discount what UND and DU have done over the years both programs have 14 NCAA titles between...

You're still missing the point. Virtually no one cares outside of college hockey circles.

 

[Goon]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

If you asked about "UND" most will think you're talking about Notre Dame.

I am already getting ready for life with out the Fighting Sioux nickname.

 

[Goon]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

You're still missing the point. Virtually no one cares outside of college hockey circles.

And that's a problem how? The fact remains that NCHC is going to be a prolific hockey conference.

 

[Goon]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

A month ago, I would have laughed at this. Notre Dame is not going to the Big 10 (or otherwise giving up its independence) unless the college football world changes significantly, i.e. 16 team super conferences that would leave ND on the outside..

That sounds like a mess for scheduling.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

If you asked about "UND" most will think you're talking about Notre Dame.

Not in college hockey. In college hockey, ND = Notre Dame and UND = North Dakota.

 

[Pump It Up]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

From reading the BGSU hockey beat writers blog post it appears that they are also taking a wait and see approach like WMU, but they appear they are leaning towards the WCHA.

This is great:

Q: Is there any kind of a buyout fee if you decide to leave the league?

Christopher: That's not something that has been discussed. Perhaps you should ask North Dakota that question.

 

[Priceless]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

Not in college hockey. In college hockey, ND = Notre Dame and UND = North Dakota.

He said ask 50 sports fans. How many people out of 50 average SPORTS fans are also going to be COLLEGE HOCKEY fans and make that connection? 1? Maybe 2?

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

And? BC/UW in the National Title game drew a 1.0 rating.
Those two schools have a way bigger national draw than UND does.
I know my school isn't a national draw

I believe I read something to where the UND/Michigan semifinal this past season was the second most watched college hockey game ever. Now, certainly that had plenty to do with Michigan being in the game, but it also had plenty to do with North Dakota being in the game (along with the game being in St. Paul). North Dakota is definitely not a "national" draw, but there really isn't a college hockey team that has a "national draw". Given that, North Dakota is a big dog in college hockey, and they have probably one of the top three or four followings in college hockey.

Put it this way, take 50 non hockey fans in any city in the country and ask them who UND is and what sport they are known for, you think more than 5 to 10% can even tell you who UND is?

It really depends on the city. If you ask 50 non-hockey fans in Grand Forks (or Minneapolis, Denver, Omaha for that matter) who UND is, you'll get more than 5 to 10%. If you ask that question in Miami, you'll get a small percentage if any. Same thing if you ask someone in Denver who UNC is, they'll likely tell you all about Greeley, whereas if you ask that in Raleigh, NC, they'll talk about the Tar Heels.

Now take 50 non sports fans in any city and ask them who Notre Dame is or what the Big Ten is, and i'd bet better than 75% would be able to tell you.

They would most likely know what/who Notre Dame is, but not the Big Ten. Again, this depends on the city you are asking. I worked with a bunch of "non sports fans" in Denver, and it was like pulling teeth explaining who NFL teams were. They certainly had no clue as to what college football conferences were. I would say the number who would correctly identify what the Big 10 was would be around the 5 to 10% mark (if that).

That's a national profile, and UND does not have that.

Completely agree. North Dakota is a regional school that has a regional following. When it comes to college hockey though, they are one of the big dogs with recognition across the college hockey landscape.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

Of course, now that Texas A&M is threatening to go the SEC, another round of football realignment could be coming, and 16 team superconferences are in the picture again, so ND could end up in the B10 yet, along with God knows who else. I am highly skeptical that the B10 would take UConn, even if it goes to 16, but some said last year that UConn is on the short list. Events outside the college hockey world could still affect hockey alignment over the next 2-3 years...a BTHC with ND and UConn? Unlikely, but not out of the question.

UConn does not make a good #12, not in the same way Nebraska did. But if the Big Whatever is going to 16, UConn makes a good candidate as a package of Northeast teams to solidify the league's presence there.

 

[4four4]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

I would make a friendly wager that more fans are going to watch a game between UND and DU, UMD and Miami or Miami and UND than SCSU and MSU-M. UND and DU games are already on FCS and FSNRM.

None of the above schools mentioned can pull in a decent national audience and nor will the average joe watch them. The Big Ten schools are so well known they will be the only league able to find a niche audience nationally and still they probably will have a hard time finding an viewers.

 

[redwings8831]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

UConn does not make a good #12, not in the same way Nebraska did. But if the Big Whatever is going to 16, UConn makes a good candidate as a package of Northeast teams to solidify the league's presence there.

If the Big Ten ever goes to 16, I wouldn't be surprised if ND and BC are two of the new four.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

Goon, there will be no "National" interest in this league.

They need Notre Dame for legitimacy, and the first domino falls if they cannot get them.

Then, the demise of the league will be started when at least 2 of the potential futile four members Miami, UNO, UMD, or CC cannot achieve consistent success and look to move elsewhere as the excessive travel costs and loss of revenue due to an ambivalent fanbase due to the losing makes the move to this conference an unfortunate mistake for a couple of these schools.

If WMU or BG are added to gain members, then they may eke out a bit longer staying at at least 6 members, but they join the list of potential futile 6 in the conference.

No way does CC ever leave Denver's side. For all the hate and vile the two schools and their fanbases, they still at the end of the day are kinda isolated from the rest of college hockey and might as well be joined at the hip.

So you say that the NCHC teams aren't big time schools and they are not high profile, you can't discount what UND and DU have done over the years both programs have 14 NCAA titles between them and without checking UMD (1 2011) and C.C.(50, 57) both have NCAA titles in division I hockey as well, what does that make the WCHA there are three schools that have NCAA titles, LSSU (88, 92, 94), NMU (91) and MTU (62, 65, 75)? Three teams in the new WCHA have 7 NCAA titles between three schools. The WCHA is going to be made up of mostly DII teams and the NCHC is going to be made up of teams in Division I schools except C.C. and Duluth... Miami is in the MAC, UND Big Sky Conference, UNO is in transition to the Summitt Conference, DU is in the WAC and UMD Division II and is a power house in Division II football.

Nobody cares about the MAC. Trev Alberts has ****ed off a lot of donors in Omaha with dropping football and wrestling right after his wresting team won the school a 3rd straight National championship. The WAC is on life support as far as it remaining a viable football conference. And trust me, while I'm right there fighting the good fight to spread the good word and praises of D2 Football, winning the Championship in that really doesn't raise your profile much nationally with the average Joe Six Pack down at the local sports bar.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

Nobody cares about the MAC. Trev Alberts has ****ed off a lot of donors in Omaha with dropping football and wrestling right after his wresting team won the school a 3rd straight National championship. The WAC is on life support as far as it remaining a viable football conference. And trust me, while I'm right there fighting the good fight to spread the good word and praises of D2 Football, winning the Championship in that really doesn't raise your profile much nationally with the average Joe Six Pack down at the local sports bar.

Hey, I care about the MAC! No one knows Miami has a hockey program, but if they are more than a casual sports fan they could probably tell you that Roethlisberger went to Miami (OHIO). Which sadly is a hell of a lot more then the average joe in non-hockey areas can say about any other college in the NCHC. When Miami is your best recognized school, you have a serious problem if your goal is national exposure.

I realize alot of people in this thread are from very hockey centric areas, but seriously, college hockey is not even on the radar of the average sports fan. Arguing if UMD or SCSU has a greater national draw is pretty ridiculous. Just my personal experience, but I've lived in Michigan (maybe 1 out of 25 could tell you something about college hockey), Ohio (maybe 1 out of 100), and Indiana (lol no).

 

[gopher wes]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

And that's a problem how? The fact remains that NCHC is going to be a prolific hockey conference.

Your comment may be true within the college hockey world. It doesn't, however, mean it will be true to the general public of sports fans. That is the point they are trying to make to you, I believe. Just because you have a vested interest in one of the teams in the NCHC doesn't mean it will be nationally relevant(outside of the college hockey world, that is).

 

[SJHovey]

Re: CCHA teams will join WCHA

Eh, I'll give you Duluth over Bemidji, market size, but St. Cloud? IMHO, 275,000 (Duluth) vs. 200,000 (St. Cloud) is a virtual wash - plus SCSU has proximity to the Twin Cities going for it over UMD. I don't disagree that a rink may have changed things for Duluth had it been built 20 years ago.

It won't surprise me a bit if by the time this is all sorted out SCSU and WMU join the current line up of NCHC teams.