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Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
- Thread starter joecct
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Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
No need. Hillary needs Obama's coalition plus her husbands if she wants a mandate. With a Rand Paul type as an opponent, taking a slightly more militant tone puts the dwindling national defense wing of the GOP in play who remember Bill Clinton cleaning up Bosnia and having good relations with the rest of the world. In the meantime she stays with Obama on economic and social issues.
If you think of who makes up the GOP nowadays, you have social conservatives, big business gimme a tax cut types, libertarians, and the military wing. Hillary ain't going to peel off social cons or libertarians. Maybe she gets a few business people but the easist to split off are the graying national defense crowd who really don't have a home in the GOP anymore especially given the rise of Teaparty libertarians.
No need. Hillary needs Obama's coalition plus her husbands if she wants a mandate. With a Rand Paul type as an opponent, taking a slightly more militant tone puts the dwindling national defense wing of the GOP in play who remember Bill Clinton cleaning up Bosnia and having good relations with the rest of the world. In the meantime she stays with Obama on economic and social issues.
If you think of who makes up the GOP nowadays, you have social conservatives, big business gimme a tax cut types, libertarians, and the military wing. Hillary ain't going to peel off social cons or libertarians. Maybe she gets a few business people but the easist to split off are the graying national defense crowd who really don't have a home in the GOP anymore especially given the rise of Teaparty libertarians.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
I'd vote for Hil-Bill over Rand Paul. Paul has the same fundamental problem I had with Obama his first time around. Not enough experience at higher levels of government. (Which isn't the only problem I have with Paul or the only reason I would vote for Hil-Bill. So don't get hung up on that.)
I'd vote for Hil-Bill over Rand Paul. Paul has the same fundamental problem I had with Obama his first time around. Not enough experience at higher levels of government. (Which isn't the only problem I have with Paul or the only reason I would vote for Hil-Bill. So don't get hung up on that.)
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
This is her entire strategy in a nutshell. The GOP overplayed their hand with the early Benghazi! nonsense. If they had launched that late summer '16 it might have had an impact. Now when people hear it or something similar, they'll just roll their eyes.
This is her entire strategy in a nutshell. The GOP overplayed their hand with the early Benghazi! nonsense. If they had launched that late summer '16 it might have had an impact. Now when people hear it or something similar, they'll just roll their eyes.
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
I'm quite skeptical that any dyed-in-the-wool defense hawk would trust Hillary over the TP - TP is libertarian in name only (as you are often quite happy to correctly point out). If I work at a major defense contractor (oh, look I do!), then I would be much happier to see a Republican in the White House, no matter what shade of red he's wearing.
Has Hillary (not Bill - we're not voting for the spouse) any executive experience?
If you bring Bill into the equation people will ask who is really running the country - the President or the spouse? Right Mrs. Coolidge?
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
First, let me preface this post with a notification that my apostrophe key is not working.
You cant separate the two when it comes to the vote. Its just not possible. With regards to experience, being a senator and Secretary of State qualify as (quotation marks) higher level experience (quotation marks) and she has plenty of it. Rand has only been in office at the federal level for what? Four years? I leveled the same criticism against Obama back in his first election and I have the same issues with Rand.
First, let me preface this post with a notification that my apostrophe key is not working.
You cant separate the two when it comes to the vote. Its just not possible. With regards to experience, being a senator and Secretary of State qualify as (quotation marks) higher level experience (quotation marks) and she has plenty of it. Rand has only been in office at the federal level for what? Four years? I leveled the same criticism against Obama back in his first election and I have the same issues with Rand.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
Anecdotal info: my wife, who realizes the hostility I have against Hillary, did try to temper it by telling me that when Hillary was a Senator she worked her butt off. That is not executive experience, but by all accounts she is a very hard worker.
Now, Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon were probably the hardest work men we've had in the White House the last hundred years, so clearly that isn't a sufficient condition for a good president. But I'd say it's a good sign. I'd say it if it wasn't Hillary, who is the devil and must be stopped in the primaries by any means necessary.
Anecdotal info: my wife, who realizes the hostility I have against Hillary, did try to temper it by telling me that when Hillary was a Senator she worked her butt off. That is not executive experience, but by all accounts she is a very hard worker.
Now, Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon were probably the hardest work men we've had in the White House the last hundred years, so clearly that isn't a sufficient condition for a good president. But I'd say it's a good sign. I'd say it if it wasn't Hillary, who is the devil and must be stopped in the primaries by any means necessary.
From the tone of your post, are you advocating a co-presidency? Or do you think that the great unwashed are going to superimpose Bill over Hillary's image?
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
It's an instant win for the R's.
Here's the whole ad campaign. Picture: Images of Hillary and Bill bleeding into one another, side-by-side. Caption at the bottom: Who are you really voting for? Remember one's inelligible for the job and the other's a post-menopausal woman.
It's an instant win for the R's.
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
I'm not talking about defense contractors and those who run defense contracting companies. Its more the average joe who wants to see the us kick butt around the world "like we did in the old days" but doesn't understand why the GOP is fixated on gay marriage or allowing you to carry a gun to your child's daycare or to visit Santa at the mall. These voters most likely stuck with McCain due to his war heroism, but were a bit more lukewarm about Mittens. Give them Rand Paul and they could be out. Mind you those voters aren't going to be decisive in the election, but they could switch teams.
W T F is this based on? Are you channeling Fishy again with odd presumtions.
Regarding the Hillary & Bill potential Presidency, I would say its a tandem act because she wouldn't be in this position on her own, and its a stretch to think a former Prez wouldn't have some influence on current affairs if his or her spouse was in office.
Think of politicians and their popularity like this:
Bill Clinton
Hillary Clinton due to her husband
Used car salesmen
Obama
fungus
Congressional Dems
collections agents
TSA officers
hives
Congressional Republicans
Therefore, it only makes sense for her to push this as a Clinton 3rd term. How about this - Dems run as Clinton's 3rd term and GOP runs as Bush II's 3rd term! 
I'm not talking about defense contractors and those who run defense contracting companies. Its more the average joe who wants to see the us kick butt around the world "like we did in the old days" but doesn't understand why the GOP is fixated on gay marriage or allowing you to carry a gun to your child's daycare or to visit Santa at the mall. These voters most likely stuck with McCain due to his war heroism, but were a bit more lukewarm about Mittens. Give them Rand Paul and they could be out. Mind you those voters aren't going to be decisive in the election, but they could switch teams.
W T F is this based on? Are you channeling Fishy again with odd presumtions.
Regarding the Hillary & Bill potential Presidency, I would say its a tandem act because she wouldn't be in this position on her own, and its a stretch to think a former Prez wouldn't have some influence on current affairs if his or her spouse was in office.
Think of politicians and their popularity like this:
Bill Clinton
Hillary Clinton due to her husband
Used car salesmen
Obama
fungus
Congressional Dems
collections agents
TSA officers
hives
Congressional Republicans
Therefore, it only makes sense for her to push this as a Clinton 3rd term. How about this - Dems run as Clinton's 3rd term and GOP runs as Bush II's 3rd term!
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
Sorry, but I can't follow you at all - can't figure out what this has to do with the TP, libertarianism, etc. No need to explain further, though - once I understand your point, I'm probably just going to disagree with it anyway, but I thought you might like to know.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
No. It's a half-joke in that the average voter isn't going to uncouple the two. She's running not only on her record but also her husband's. For better or worse. I'm not saying it's a copresidency or anything like that.
No. It's a half-joke in that the average voter isn't going to uncouple the two. She's running not only on her record but also her husband's. For better or worse. I'm not saying it's a copresidency or anything like that.
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
I'll keep it simple then. The military wing of the GOP is the most marginalized now as they have little in common with the TP/libertarian/economic conservative wings that dominate. A national security type Dem such as Hillary might be able to peel these people off in a way we haven't seen in a long time.
Sorry, but I can't follow you at all - can't figure out what this has to do with the TP, libertarianism, etc. No need to explain further, though - once I understand your point, I'm probably just going to disagree with it anyway, but I thought you might like to know.
I'll keep it simple then.
The military wing of the GOP is the most marginalized now as they have little in common with the TP/libertarian/economic conservative wings that dominate. A national security type Dem such as Hillary might be able to peel these people off in a way we haven't seen in a long time.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
My company's PAC all but orders employees to vote R. Obviously they never advocate a particular candidate or party but it is obvious what they consider to be "responsible policies that encourage job growth and national defense." Add in that the defense contractor community is dominated both in leadership and the ranks by people farther right than the Southern Baptist Convention, and you've got a Perfect Storm of CorporateCon depravity.
Rand Paul would cause so much cognitive dissonance around these parts that the breakroom would look like a scene out of Scanners.
My company's PAC all but orders employees to vote R. Obviously they never advocate a particular candidate or party but it is obvious what they consider to be "responsible policies that encourage job growth and national defense." Add in that the defense contractor community is dominated both in leadership and the ranks by people farther right than the Southern Baptist Convention, and you've got a Perfect Storm of CorporateCon depravity.
Rand Paul would cause so much cognitive dissonance around these parts that the breakroom would look like a scene out of Scanners.
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St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
I work for some of those "banksters" that people like to rant about. We're continually lobbied to vote for D initiatives because they'll help our business secure more loan business. We receive these messages at both the state and federal levels. The full frontal campaign that will rev up in a couple months just gets sickening. 280,000 employees as a captive audience makes for a lot of cheap advertising.
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
Rover - gotcha now, and I do still disagree. The knee-jerk reactions are strong with these ones - defense cons will vote any R over Hillary, rational or not.
Completely agree with all of this. When I worked at Lockheed during the 2004 election, it was very common to hear people discuss how much they hated "having to" vote for Cheney (who had cancelled a major program of theirs while Sec Def under Bush I) - but they all still voted for him. Better a Republican with a proven track record of cancelling programs than to vote for a dirty Democrat - R stands for "reflex."
Rover - gotcha now, and I do still disagree. The knee-jerk reactions are strong with these ones - defense cons will vote any R over Hillary, rational or not.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Pretty much the political opposite being in a union. Better a Dem than anybody else. And they make it very clear who you and what you are supposed to vote for.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?
People over 50 will vote for Bill III in 3D. People under 40 have no memory of Bill and will vote for Hillary. People 40-50 will be a mixed bag.
For every voter Hillary loses because people can't remember Bill, she'll probably pick up a woman voting for her strictly out of Girl Power solidarity. The problem with Hillary has never been electability. It's whether we really want to give Tracy Flick nukes.
People over 50 will vote for Bill III in 3D. People under 40 have no memory of Bill and will vote for Hillary. People 40-50 will be a mixed bag.
For every voter Hillary loses because people can't remember Bill, she'll probably pick up a woman voting for her strictly out of Girl Power solidarity. The problem with Hillary has never been electability. It's whether we really want to give Tracy Flick nukes.
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