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Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

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SJHovey said:
I don't believe it's a collapse as much as a reflection of the increase in competition. If you look at his charts, nationwide there are something like five times as many AirBnb's available today as seven years ago. In places like Phoenix, the growth has even been larger. Yeah, Phoenix saw a per rental drop in income of something like 47%, but the number of available units in Phoenix during that same period doubled.

The chart I'd be interested in is something that shows the number of these rentals, say over the last five to seven years. I have no idea what they'd show, but I suspect you will see these types of private rentals still increasing. I say that only from what I observe about our girls, and young people that I work with. When they travel, they are using almost exclusively AirBnb's. They wouldn't dream of staying in a Holiday Inn Express or something.
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The number has greatly increased, which saw margins go down. So they started hiking cleaning fees while making people clean before leaving, which is pushing more people to hotels.

there are so many issues with home rentals now- I’d only do it for a large group. It’s just not worth hassle of cleaning and worrying about hidden cameras
 
Kepler said:
Dr. Mrs. has been suggesting we do this with the Phoenix house and I am absolutely irrationally against it. I don't know if it's because I have The Olds but I assume (1) we'll lose money and (2) 20-somethings will stay there and destroy the house.

I was overjoyed to see this and tell her, "hey... look at this."

Our tenants just bought their forever home so it's time to hike the rent on the next one.
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If it's a home that you want to use from time to time then the AirBnb/VRBO route is obviously the way to go. But if it's just an investment that you might use five years from now, the straight rental always seems like the better option.

I know all kinds of people who have purchased lake cabins, or condos in Vail or Las Vegas or someplace, where they plan to use them over the course of 4-5 weeks per year, but want to generate some income to help pay the taxes, maintenance or even mortgage on the place. The standard landlord/tenant structure just doesn't work for that scenario.
 
Another thing that has been pushing people away from VRBO/AirBnB is the "hidden cost" shock. Like a 2-night stay at a place that shows a price of $100/night would cost you $424 out the door. Cleaning Fees, Service Fees, etc. are all displayed on the back end, so it can be hard to judge the price.

As mentioned, it really is no longer a cheaper option to a standard hotel in many cases. The only time the price becomes more economical is when you have a group of 6-10 people.

It really depends on the situation. I've drifted back towards hotels because they tend to be much more convenient and simple for about the same cost.
 
RaceBoarder said:
Another thing that has been pushing people away from VRBO/AirBnB is the "hidden cost" shock. Like a 2-night stay at a place that shows a price of $100/night would cost you $424 out the door. Cleaning Fees, Service Fees, etc. are all displayed on the back end, so it can be hard to judge the price.

As mentioned, it really is no longer a cheaper option to a standard hotel in many cases. The only time the price becomes more economical is when you have a group of 6-10 people.

It really depends on the situation. I've drifted back towards hotels because they tend to be much more convenient and simple for about the same cost.
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My experience with AirBnb's is limited to those situations where our family has gone as a big group, and the girls have located the spot. In that situation, there are quite a few advantages, including the ability to cook and feed a large group at the same time, the cost of the rental, multiple bathrooms/showers, etc...

The other thing that shouldn't be overlooked is the setting. We stayed in a spectacular lake home in Door County. Most hotel rooms are simply going to have a view of the air conditioner units on top of the adjacent building, or the local Denny's.
 
Here's the thing I always remind myself. If I'm on vacation, especially if traveling, I want to be in the hotel or ABNB as little as practically possible. Like, sleep+shower+20 minutes on either side.

If I have a clean bed and shower, and coffee is within a 5-minute walk, I'm 95% of the way there.


YMMV
 
SJHovey said:
My experience with AirBnb's is limited to those situations where our family has gone as a big group, and the girls have located the spot. In that situation, there are quite a few advantages, including the ability to cook and feed a large group at the same time, the cost of the rental, multiple bathrooms/showers, etc...

The other thing that shouldn't be overlooked is the setting. We stayed in a spectacular lake home in Door County. Most hotel rooms are simply going to have a view of the air conditioner units on top of the adjacent building, or the local Denny's.
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That’s exactly what we do. Somewhere like Hawaii- a house is great because multiple hotel rooms are pricey and food is outrageous so a house is financially advantageous. Anywhere there isn’t a hotel - like on a lake or something- is also probably always going to have demand

all the condos or apartments that are two bedrooms are the ones that don’t make any sense for many as a hotel is cheaper and easier
 
When my brother turned 50 we rented a house on a lake in Alexandria and it was so big 4 families each had their own wing, plus there was another large bedroom for kids. 2 kitchens, several bathrooms, a very large outdoor deck, 3-season porch, a boat, jetski, bikes, etc., etc. It was extremely worth it at the time. But that was 10 years ago and I've no idea if we were to try and book it today that it would worth the same. We did not use AirBNB that time.

Also it's funny that once again SJ again has the contrarian angle as if every anecdote about AirBNB being a pain in the @ss is the exception not the rule.
 
SJHovey said:
I don't believe it's a collapse as much as a reflection of the increase in competition. If you look at his charts, nationwide there are something like five times as many AirBnb's available today as seven years ago. In places like Phoenix, the growth has even been larger. Yeah, Phoenix saw a per rental drop in income of something like 47%, but the number of available units in Phoenix during that same period doubled.

The chart I'd be interested in is something that shows the number of these rentals, say over the last five to seven years. I have no idea what they'd show, but I suspect you will see these types of private rentals still increasing. I say that only from what I observe about our girls, and young people that I work with. When they travel, they are using almost exclusively AirBnb's. They wouldn't dream of staying in a Holiday Inn Express or something.
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I do a mix, depending on where I'm going. Cities, I usually book a hotel. Small towns/rural areas, I tend to use short-term rentals. What I won't book though, are the rentals that charge a ridiculous "cleaning fee" because they know they're catering to wealth who will just pay it. $200 and your house rules say that I still have to load the dishwasher and take out the trash? Eff off.
 
SJHovey said:
I don't believe it's a collapse as much as a reflection of the increase in competition. If you look at his charts, nationwide there are something like five times as many AirBnb's available today as seven years ago. In places like Phoenix, the growth has even been larger. Yeah, Phoenix saw a per rental drop in income of something like 47%, but the number of available units in Phoenix during that same period doubled.

The chart I'd be interested in is something that shows the number of these rentals, say over the last five to seven years. I have no idea what they'd show, but I suspect you will see these types of private rentals still increasing. I say that only from what I observe about our girls, and young people that I work with. When they travel, they are using almost exclusively AirBnb's. They wouldn't dream of staying in a Holiday Inn Express or something.
Click to expand...

There is definitely a collapse happening...not to the level of that chart but people are using the options less and less because, as to be expected, the people who are in it for the investment are nickel and diming people to death. 5 years ago it was different but now a lot of the best parts of AirBnB are being stripped away from people trying to be the next rich dbag. And AirBnB itself is a lot like Uber used to be where it was run by people who really could give two craps who is using their service on either end.

I mean seriously, why pay hotel prices and then be expected to clean the house and other chores? It would be one thing if that was actually part of the transaction (you dont have to pay a cleaning fee but then you clean up after yourself) but that is almost never the case. People charge premium rates, there is the premium cost for cleaning and amenities, then they still have to do the cleaning themselves. Then you call or contact AirBnB and they either ignore you or refuse to help. (my buddy got screwed hard once on a mold situation on a long term rental with his family which lead to hearing many more stories)

It is still a good option for some things as you and DGF said...but honestly more often than not a decent hotel costs around the same. As always, do as much research as possible. Use long term superusers with high ratings and always price shop!
 
Jimjamesak said:
Looks like there’s about a month until the Teamsters at UPS go on strike. They’re negotiating right now but an apparent leak of the company’s economic proposal got out and let’s just the mood among the workforce is not good.
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Update to this: Looks like the Teamsters have told UPS to present its “best, last, and final” offer for us to vote on in a week or two. It’ll undoubtedly fail and it looks like we’ll be on strike on August 1.
 
Handyman said:
There is definitely a collapse happening...not to the level of that chart but people are using the options less and less because, as to be expected, the people who are in it for the investment are nickel and diming people to death. 5 years ago it was different but now a lot of the best parts of AirBnB are being stripped away from people trying to be the next rich dbag. And AirBnB itself is a lot like Uber used to be where it was run by people who really could give two craps who is using their service on either end.

I mean seriously, why pay hotel prices and then be expected to clean the house and other chores? It would be one thing if that was actually part of the transaction (you dont have to pay a cleaning fee but then you clean up after yourself) but that is almost never the case. People charge premium rates, there is the premium cost for cleaning and amenities, then they still have to do the cleaning themselves. Then you call or contact AirBnB and they either ignore you or refuse to help. (my buddy got screwed hard once on a mold situation on a long term rental with his family which lead to hearing many more stories)

It is still a good option for some things as you and DGF said...but honestly more often than not a decent hotel costs around the same. As always, do as much research as possible. Use long term superusers with high ratings and always price shop!
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I think the chiseling of people on things like cleaning fees and the like is being done for the exact same reason it's being done by hotels in Las Vegas -- marketing. A Las Vegas casino wants to convince you their rooms are $49/night, but that's before the $40/night "resort fee," or my personal favorite, the $1.50/night the Riviera used to charge for "electricity fee."

So many people just scroll through websites like hotels.com and make selections based upon the room rate, without checking all the taxes and fees.

The same way with these VRBO rentals. It's all about drawing eyeballs to the cheapest rate per night or week, but the operator has to make up the cash in some other way.
 
SJHovey said:
So many people just scroll through websites like hotels.com and make selections based upon the room rate, without checking all the taxes and fees.
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Side note: If you don't give a * about where you sleep (see above mentioned "I spend 20 minutes in the room, not including sleeping, tops" post), book through a third party site and get the cheapest rate.

If you want the actual room or amenities you booked online (1 king, 2 queen and a pullout sofa, pet friendly room, free whatever when booking, etc) then don't *ever* book through a third party site. Go directly through the hotel's booking site (their website, the corporate site, whatever they book though) or call directly and book the room.

The third party sites don't actually guarantee you're going to get what they sell you, and third party booked guests are the *first* people turned away from the hotel when they are oversold.

And mention that there are lower rates online when you do call, as some will knock down the rate. It may not be as much of a discount as the third party sites, but you're guaranteed to have the room you requested.
 
SJHovey said:
I think the chiseling of people on things like cleaning fees and the like is being done for the exact same reason it's being done by hotels in Las Vegas -- marketing. A Las Vegas casino wants to convince you their rooms are $49/night, but that's before the $40/night "resort fee," or my personal favorite, the $1.50/night the Riviera used to charge for "electricity fee."

So many people just scroll through websites like hotels.com and make selections based upon the room rate, without checking all the taxes and fees.

The same way with these VRBO rentals. It's all about drawing eyeballs to the cheapest rate per night or week, but the operator has to make up the cash in some other way.
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I agree. And as someone who goes to Vegas a lot that is annoying. The difference is when you book in Vegas they tell you at checkout "There is an $XX.XX per night resort fee" and all that so you see the full price when you reserve. Now most people ignore that and get massive sticker shock at final checkout but it is right there in plain language. My final price has only ever changed if I charge something to the room. Its not like the old days when they went nuts like the Riviera example. (a lot of that was the mob stuff too)

This is different. I literally just booked AirBnB for a trip to the Oregon Coast in August and to find the fine print took a lot of work. Plus, they said "you dont have to pay now" and then when I got to the payment section the only way to do that was to apply for credit and break the payments out over a year. That is full on bait and switch BS like Dell and Gateway Computers used to do. (and car companies are notorious for) I paid a down payment so its fine anyways but jesus stop playing games with this crap.
 
Isn’t there an option on Air BnB that you click in the affirmative that then includes the total price on rooms before taxes, such as cleaning fees, administrative fees, etc.? I feel like there is, because I click it every time. If people are too lazy to click on that button, well…
 
psych said:
Isn’t there an option on Air BnB that you click in the affirmative that then includes the total price on rooms before taxes, such as cleaning fees, administrative fees, etc.? I feel like there is, because I click it every time. If people are too lazy to click on that button, well…
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It's spelled out. But it's applied on the back end of things. So you need to click all the way through the listing to see it. You can't eliminate those properties until you've already invested some time looking into them.
 
RaceBoarder said:
It's spelled out. But it's applied on the back end of things. So you need to click all the way through the listing to see it. You can't eliminate those properties until you've already invested some time looking into them.
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I’m extremely, extremely technologically challenged for someone my age, and it’s one click to turn on “include all fees, etc. before taxes”, one click on a picture of a room/house with, for instance “$1,211 before taxes” posted, and one more to click “reserve” on a particular room/house, and it says “5 nights $1,211, taxes $72.66, with the total $1,283.66”, with three options to pay. I mean I guess I could be missing something somewhere, and I don’t disagree that places gouge on cleaning fees, administrative fees, etc., but it’s been easy for me to witness the price gouging as it’s happened in real time.
 
It was not that easy when I did it this afternoon and I am not technologically challenged. I also have never reserved AirBnB (girlfriend always does) so it is possible things are different based on how much you use it. Though my girlfriend had similar experiences when she used it.
 
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