Brown University Bears 2011-12

[sfrs]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

To me that was a coach trying to stem the tide loosing faceoffs as the three centres were a comined 14-28 in the faceoff circle and the rest of the team 1-10.

Of course, the logical choice to stem the tide of losing faceoffs is to make defensemen take it. Solid analyzation on your part.

I think you missed the main point of my post. On here to support the team no matter what the system. Neither you or I have any influence, nor should we have, on the system employed by the team. It is up to the coaches to decide on that.

I apologize for not catching on to your main point - sometimes I accidentally take what people say as exactly what they say. You're correct, we clearly do not have influence, but we are free to discuss the team, gameplay, and systems, just as you are free to make recaps of every game with "go bears" at the end of it. I personally do not agree with the system they are using, but I am not posting here in order to influence anything the coaches or players are doing. I'm not fool enough to think they care about what I say anymore than anyone cares what you have to say. Just an opinion.

 

[grin and bear]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

this forcheck system was used at Middlebury college. It does require the high checker to read the outlet pass, It's not always pretty but it's effective if you are somewhat over matched. This forecheck is designed to keep teams bottled up and cut down on odd man breaks. While ties are not wins they ARE better than losses.

Perhaps the loss of faceoffs had to do with the fact that there were defensemen taking the Bears' faceoffs; if my eyes did not deceive me, I saw Jacquie Pierri and Shannon Flatley, both clearly defensemen, taking faceoffs during that game. As I am not on the bench I do not know if this was due to the coaches' orders or because of a communication error, but regardless, having a defenseman taking a faceoff when they have clearly had no practice at it is ludicrous.



Although the Bears may have won significantly more faceoffs against Quinnipiac, clearly losing faceoffs is not the main contributor to the Bears' "never having control of the puck" as you had said concerning the game against Colgate. The Bears had next to zero control of the puck the entire game, but rather spent the entirety of it chasing the puck around the defensive end. Being outshot 13 to 50 speaks for itself. Where is the poise in that? When they did finally get hold of it, all the forwards did (all 2 of them, rather) was chip the puck out of the zone so they could change and get fresh legs on the ice. Seeing as even from the stands all I could hear was the forward coach, Andy, yelling at the wingers to "just get it up and out of the zone off of the glass!" it seems they did not have much choice. What was that about? The two goals were due to quick rushes, and when the girls did finally keep possession of the puck, they were kept to the boards throughout the duration of those brief spells of offense.



Stating the obvious is not "tearing a team down at every cycle." I stated objective observations. And from what I observed, the Bears' new "system" (if that is what you want to call it), is clearly not working. While the Bears may get used to the new style of gameplay, I believe there is a reason that there is not a single other team in the ECAC playing that system. Perhaps it is because no matter how much the ladies perfect the system, it still allows for next to zero generation of offense.

I did however, upon significant research, notice that Trinity, Andy's old team, used a similar system. Hmm. I wonder who's idea that was?

 

[Qwertyasdf789]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

this forcheck system was used at Middlebury college. It does require the high checker to read the outlet pass, It's not always pretty but it's effective if you are somewhat over matched. This forecheck is designed to keep teams bottled up and cut down on odd man breaks. While ties are not wins they ARE better than losses.

Certainly while ties are better than losses, tying should not be the objective of the game; sometimes you have to take chances to win the game even if it means losing. Nobody makes it to the playoffs with ties, let alone ties against beatable teams like Colgate.

After watching the Bears against Colgate, Princeton, and Quinnipiac, I do not agree with the statement that the Bears were "overmatched". You could argue that based on the shot count the Bears were outplayed, but had there been an effective and more offensive system in place, the number of chances to score most definitely would have been higher.

 

[Hux]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

Certainly while ties are better than losses, tying should not be the objective of the game; sometimes you have to take chances to win the game even if it means losing. Nobody makes it to the playoffs with ties, let alone ties against beatable teams like Colgate.

After watching the Bears against Colgate, Princeton, and Quinnipiac, I do not agree with the statement that the Bears were "overmatched". You could argue that based on the shot count the Bears were outplayed, but had there been an effective and more offensive system in place, the number of chances to score most definitely would have been higher.

The 2-3 is designed as trap, and is particularly useful for teams that lack the offensive firepower to play run and gun. I'd say Brown fits that bill.

 

[sfrs]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

The 2-3 is designed as trap, and is particularly useful for teams that lack the offensive firepower to play run and gun. I'd say Brown fits that bill.

Nobody will ever know if the Bears are capable of demonstrating "offensive firepower" because from the beginning of this season they have been playing the 2-3 (even though it resembles something like a 1-1-3 considering how the Bears run it). The last few years that Digit had been coaching the team, they'd played with very defensive systems and ran into exactly the same problem - they generated next to zero offense. Brown fits the bill because they have been given no other choice; I would have thought that with a different coaching staff would come a different system - after all, what is the point in different coaches if they are running similar defensive systems, putting last year's leading scorers, Jolin and Polenska, in defensive positions as well? All they have done is adopted Digit's defensive systems and then taken the best offensive players and made them useless. I'm beginning to wonder if the new coaches are simply more ethical and politically respected versions of Digit Murphy herself... only this year, the head coach knows how to treat her players like human beings.

You could argue that based on the shot count the Bears were outplayed, but had there been an effective and more offensive system in place, the number of chances to score most definitely would have been higher

In response to Qwertyasdf789: I agree. The coach seems not to have realized her forwards are more than capable of generating offensive play, but that it is hard to keep a 2 man cycle going in the offensive zone. I don't claim to be all knowing; perhaps the Bears' forwards are not competent enough to keep the puck in the offensive zone or carry out a 3 man cycle, but nobody will ever know, coaches included, until it has been tried.

 

[pakidnyc]

Nobody will ever know if the Bears are capable of demonstrating "offensive firepower" because from the beginning of this season they have been playing the 2-3 (even though it resembles something like a 1-1-3 considering how the Bears run it). The last few years that Digit had been coaching the team, they'd played with very defensive systems and ran into exactly the same problem - they generated next to zero offense. Brown fits the bill because they have been given no other choice; I would have thought that with a different coaching staff would come a different system - after all, what is the point in different coaches if they are running similar defensive systems, putting last year's leading scorers, Jolin and Polenska, in defensive positions as well? All they have done is adopted Digit's defensive systems and then taken the best offensive players and made them useless. I'm beginning to wonder if the new coaches are simply more ethical and politically respected versions of Digit Murphy herself... only this year, the head coach knows how to treat her players like human beings.



In response to Qwertyasdf789: I agree. The coach seems not to have realized her forwards are more than capable of generating offensive play, but that it is hard to keep a 2 man cycle going in the offensive zone. I don't claim to be all knowing; perhaps the Bears' forwards are not competent enough to keep the puck in the offensive zone or carry out a 3 man cycle, but nobody will ever know, coaches included, until it has been tried.

How do you know it hasn't been tried? Have you watched every practice they run? It sounds to me like we have parents here who can't give up coaching their girls. Let it go. Let the coaches coach. They've had what 4 games? I watched them play vs Cornell and they can use a little more work on the defensive side of things. Maybe the coach is building for something which takes years to build. Based on what I saw of the overall skill level, this team isn't ready to make a run yet! But have a lot of skill up front and maybe she's trying to teach them defensive hockey first (novel concept NJ Devils) and then when she gets the pieces in place she wants to recruit, she will be able to get the offense churning where it needs to be. Everyone sit back and take a deep breath. It took Cornell 3-4 seasons of planning and building to turn around and have the years they had the last 2. Now they are poised to maybe have their best year yet. Brown could be back there again but it's not happening this year.....yet!

 

[Hux]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

How do you know it hasn't been tried? Have you watched every practice they run? It sounds to me like we have parents here who can't give up coaching their girls. Let it go. Let the coaches coach. They've had what 4 games? I watched them play vs Cornell and they can use a little more work on the defensive side of things. Maybe the coach is building for something which takes years to build. Based on what I saw of the overall skill level, this team isn't ready to make a run yet! But have a lot of skill up front and maybe she's trying to teach them defensive hockey first (novel concept NJ Devils) and then when she gets the pieces in place she wants to recruit, she will be able to get the offense churning where it needs to be. Everyone sit back and take a deep breath. It took Cornell 3-4 seasons of planning and building to turn around and have the years they had the last 2. Now they are poised to maybe have their best year yet. Brown could be back there again but it's not happening this year.....yet!

Exactly. Aside from goalies, Brown hasn't been able to attract high-end talent since Hayley Moore, and it is going to take a while to rebuild. Being competitive helps that cause, and if it takes a trap system to ensure a bunch of ties, or 1 goal losses to do it, more power to the coaching staff.

 

[NewbieBear]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

How do you know it hasn't been tried? Have you watched every practice they run? It sounds to me like we have parents here who can't give up coaching their girls. Let it go. Let the coaches coach. They've had what 4 games? ......... maybe she's trying to teach them defensive hockey first (novel concept NJ Devils) and then when she gets the pieces in place she wants to recruit, she will be able to get the offense churning where it needs to be. Everyone sit back and take a deep breath......!

Exactly. Aside from goalies, Brown hasn't been able to attract high-end talent since Hayley Moore, and it is going to take a while to rebuild. Being competitive helps that cause, and if it takes a trap system to ensure a bunch of ties, or 1 goal losses to do it, more power to the coaching staff.

Hux and PA Kid in NY,

Exactly my sentiments. We have too many armchair coaches in the stands complaining on this board. It is early in the season, and the ink on the new coaching staff's contracts is barely dry.

It will take time, patience and a willingness to go support the team through peaks and valleys to rebuild. Last thing we need is a bunch of arm chair questioning from those connected to the program in a public domain. All it does is undermine what the coaching staff is trying to achieve. Even if you don't agree with the methodology or system, if you are a part of a team, even as a parent, just keep those opinions to yourselves. If this gets back to the players, all it does is undermine the attempt at teamwork by the coaching staff.

Go Bears.

 

[scrambledlegs]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

Perhaps the loss of faceoffs had to do with the fact that there were defensemen taking the Bears' faceoffs; if my eyes did not deceive me, I saw Jacquie Pierri and Shannon Flatley, both clearly defensemen, taking faceoffs during that game. As I am not on the bench I do not know if this was due to the coaches' orders or because of a communication error, but regardless, having a defenseman taking a faceoff when they have clearly had no practice at it is ludicrous.



Although the Bears may have won significantly more faceoffs against Quinnipiac, clearly losing faceoffs is not the main contributor to the Bears' "never having control of the puck" as you had said concerning the game against Colgate. The Bears had next to zero control of the puck the entire game, but rather spent the entirety of it chasing the puck around the defensive end. Being outshot 13 to 50 speaks for itself. Where is the poise in that? When they did finally get hold of it, all the forwards did (all 2 of them, rather) was chip the puck out of the zone so they could change and get fresh legs on the ice. Seeing as even from the stands all I could hear was the forward coach, Andy, yelling at the wingers to "just get it up and out of the zone off of the glass!" it seems they did not have much choice. What was that about? The two goals were due to quick rushes, and when the girls did finally keep possession of the puck, they were kept to the boards throughout the duration of those brief spells of offense.



Stating the obvious is not "tearing a team down at every cycle." I stated objective observations. And from what I observed, the Bears' new "system" (if that is what you want to call it), is clearly not working. While the Bears may get used to the new style of gameplay, I believe there is a reason that there is not a single other team in the ECAC playing that system. Perhaps it is because no matter how much the ladies perfect the system, it still allows for next to zero generation of offense.

I did however, upon significant research, notice that Trinity, Andy's old team, used a similar system. Hmm. I wonder who's idea that was?

Clearly, not getting blown out every game is an improvement over the last couple of years, so it is hard to say that this system is not working. While some stats are important during the game, pretty much the only one that is remembered (and even that is forgotten) is the score. The fact that the score was only 1-0 against Princeton meant that something was working.

Additionally, unlike you and me, coaches spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about X & Os. This may be the system that they feel will keep motivation up as they are improving or it could be a system that they think may teach a specific point that they feel the team is weak on. I may be wrong but I doubt that any coach keeps the same system all season long. They are always tinkering and trying to get the best out of players.

Regarding defensemen taking faceoffs, I have seen that before at Providence, usually in man-down situations (4-4, 3-4) but again, the coach spends pretty much 40+ hours thinking about hockey and I am sure that there is a reason for that situation.

My suggestion to parents is just to sit back and relax. Obviously, someone else is getting paid to do the job and you should just enjoy the time that you have watching your daughter and seeing her grow up during this time period.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

Clearly, not getting blown out every game is an improvement over the last couple of years, so it is hard to say that this system is not working. While some stats are important during the game, pretty much the only one that is remembered (and even that is forgotten) is the score. The fact that the score was only 1-0 against Princeton meant that something was working.

Additionally, unlike you and me, coaches spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about X & Os. This may be the system that they feel will keep motivation up as they are improving or it could be a system that they think may teach a specific point that they feel the team is weak on. I may be wrong but I doubt that any coach keeps the same system all season long. They are always tinkering and trying to get the best out of players.

Regarding defensemen taking faceoffs, I have seen that before at Providence, usually in man-down situations (4-4, 3-4) but again, the coach spends pretty much 40+ hours thinking about hockey and I am sure that there is a reason for that situation.

My suggestion to parents is just to sit back and relax. Obviously, someone else is getting paid to do the job and you should just enjoy the time that you have watching your daughter and seeing her grow up during this time period.

Well Said. THIS !.

 

[sfrs]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

Additionally, unlike you and me, coaches spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about X & Os. This may be the system that they feel will keep motivation up as they are improving or it could be a system that they think may teach a specific point that they feel the team is weak on. I may be wrong but I doubt that any coach keeps the same system all season long. They are always tinkering and trying to get the best out of players.

Good point, and I hope you are right - the team has a lot of promise this year, and I still do have hope that the systems will change as the season progresses. The teams that the ladies are playing this coming weekend are teams that the Bears have kept up with the past few years, and offer the perfect chance for the Bears to try out different systems or alter the system that they are playing. As optimistic NewbieBear would say: "go bears." I want the ladies to win just as much as the next parent.

However...

Clearly, not getting blown out every game is an improvement over the last couple of years, so it is hard to say that this system is not working. While some stats are important during the game, pretty much the only one that is remembered (and even that is forgotten) is the score. The fact that the score was only 1-0 against Princeton meant that something was working.

The ONLY stat that is important during the game is who won and who lost. The conference doesn't give a hoot over the total number of goals for and against; likewise, if a team loses by 12-0 or 1-0, a loss is still a loss, and that loss still counts towards whether or not a team makes it to playoffs. Yes, the score was 1-0 against Princeton. The last game the Bears played against Princeton in the 2010-2011 season, they lost 4-2, but the 4th goal was an empty netter. I believe, empty net goal aside, that the game was lost by one goal. I'm also pretty sure Digit's systems weren't working that season, so using a 1 goal loss argument for this year's game against Princeton is pretty useless. It gives no evidence of whether or not the systems are working, making that particular contribution to this conversation pretty invalid.

Hopefully this weekend will give the ladies some confidence, and allow for the coaches to reconsider what is and is not working, and what can and cannot be "tinkered with". Who knows, maybe the current system will scrape the Bears some wins. Or perhaps not. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[sfrs]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

Actually, the last time the Bears visited Princeton they lost 4-0.

Princeton versus Brown, February 18, 2011. 4-2, empty net goal with 45 seconds left in the third.

I'm making the most recent comparisons. If you want to compare everything, you could also note that in preseason last year, the Bears actually beat Princeton.

 

[LG4]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

An offensively talented recruit will look at the systems being played when they are looking at a school. If I were a player looking at two schools offering similar options academically and one team relied on a more passive offensive system the choice might not lead to Brown if all games were played the same style.

 

[NewbieBear]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

ECAC Home opening weekend at Brown. Meehan Rink celebrating its 50th anniversary. RPI visits today and Union is in town tomorrow. Key games for all three of these teams as they are all closely bunched in the standings.

Here is the official preview

http://www.brownbears.com/sports/w-hockey/2011-12/releases/20111111ub0irm

Go Bears.

 

[NewbieBear]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

ECAC Home opening weekend at Brown. Meehan Rink celebrating its 50th anniversary. RPI visits today and Union is in town tomorrow. Key games for all three of these teams as they are all closely bunched in the standings.

Here is the official preview

http://www.brownbears.com/sports/w-hockey/2011-12/releases/20111111ub0irm

Go Bears.

Great home opening weekend by the Bears. Stellar goal tending by both keepers and timely scoring earned the Bears a come from behind tie vs the Engineers on Friday night, and a win vs Union tonight. The latter game was decided on a goal in the dying minutes to win 1-0. Landry with the goal and Jamieson with the shutout.

Well Done girls.

More later.

Go Bears Go.

 

[DarthBruno]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

We have too many armchair coaches in the stands complaining on this board. ... Last thing we need is a bunch of arm chair questioning from those connected to the program in a public domain. .... just keep those opinions to yourselves.

You know, I'm a hockey alum and longtime fan. I really, really resent the gall of anyone here, parent or not, trying to dictate what the content or tenor of this discussion board should be. If knowledgeable fans want to critique something about a game, team, or coach, I say the more the merrier. You can be a booster and still see things that need improvement or could have been done differently -- it doesn't mean you don't love or support the team. We're here to bounce our impressions and reactions off each other. If all comments were of the "Good job, girls!" variety, I'd think we were back in preschool handing out gold stars to every kid that breathed. Brown players and coaches are adults, last time I checked.

Save the attempts at censorship for your PR job and let everyone have their say without knee-jerk scolding, OK? Live and let live.

May the Force be with Brown women's hockey.

 

[sfrs]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

You know, I'm a hockey alum and longtime fan. I really, really resent the gall of anyone here, parent or not, trying to dictate what the content or tenor of this discussion board should be. If knowledgeable fans want to critique something about a game, team, or coach, I say the more the merrier. You can be a booster and still see things that need improvement or could have been done differently -- it doesn't mean you don't love or support the team. We're here to bounce our impressions and reactions off each other. If all comments were of the "Good job, girls!" variety, I'd think we were back in preschool handing out gold stars to every kid that breathed. Brown players and coaches are adults, last time I checked.

Save the attempts at censorship for your PR job and let everyone have their say without knee-jerk scolding, OK? Live and let live.

Glad there are people out there who don't try and govern what people do and do not post on this forum. Well said.

I thought the ladies put forth a good effort this weekend. While RPI was definitely a beatable team, it seemed as if Brown was allowing the forwards to play a bit more on the offensive side, definitely a change for the better. Good job ladies. Defensive zone seemed a bit sloppy, passes to the forwards were oftentimes bouncy and very hard to control, resulting in the puck being slapped right back into the d-zone. Likewise, if a good pass was made to the winger, the winger didn't seem to have many outlets seeing as the center was hanging back with the defensemen on breakouts, leaving the defensemen exhausted from having to run back and forth to collect the puck time and time again. The Bears worked hard the entire game, but things were still made harder than they should have been.

Looked to me like the forwards had a difficult time generating much chemistry amongst themselves. The Moorehead/Robson pairing seemed to have good chemistry, but it seemed like the other pairings struggled to find each other or time things properly. I'm sure this didn't go unnoticed by the coaching staff, so I'm curious what the lineup changes might be. Should be interesting to see what they come up with. Same goes for the defensive pairings. Having Woodward out of the lineup is definitely a set back, and I wish her a quick and speedy recovery!

Regardless, improvement is always commendable, and I'm glad the changes apparent in the games this weekend were for the better, not the worse.

Fantastic pass by Miss Yang for the game-winning assist. It was a pleasure to watch, and seeing those kinds of plays are what keeps the game of hockey exciting. Katelyn, excellent finish on a phenomenal pass.

 

[NewbieBear]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

Great home opening weekend by the Bears. Stellar goal tending by both keepers and timely scoring earned the Bears a come from behind tie vs the Engineers on Friday night, and a win vs Union tonight. The latter game was decided on a goal in the dying minutes to win 1-0. Landry with the goal and Jamieson with the shutout.

Well Done girls.

More later.

Go Bears Go.

As promised, a more detailed update. Bears had a great weekend, despite missing three players from the lineup due to illness, injuries and national team commitments.

Here are the game reports:
RPI game: http://brownbears.com/sports/w-hockey/2011-12/releases/20111111xj6wxf
Union Game: http://brownbears.com/sports/w-hockey/2011-12/releases/20111112v3n5kh

Congratulations to Sarah Robson on her first career goal vs RPI. It was a beautiful goal, and agree with SFRS that Sarah was one of our best forwards this weekend. As SFRS indicated already, that pass from Janice Yang to set up Katelyn Landry was a great play. Just minutes before, another rookie, Shannon Flatley had created a great chance when she fed Dolan for a tip in after a great end to end rush.

Brown's goaltending has been fantastic this year. Katie Jamieson earned a shutout yesterday, and sports a .938 save percentage. Aubree Moore sports an even better 0.948 save percentage to lead the league in that department. Jamieson is second in the league in that department. That is a great one two goaltending duo to have. They have been splitting the duties pretty much 50/50. Well done ladies.

Meanwhile up front co-captain Landry is having a rejuvenation season. She is leading the team in scoring with five goals, and potted the GWG yesterday. Well done Katelyn.

As a team Brown is at 500. Take away the two outlyers (Sacred Heart and Cornell), the numbers for the other five games are one win, one loss, three ties, 6GF, 6GA. Clearly a team that thinks defense first, giving themselves a chance to put points on the board most games.

Keep working hard ladies, and wishing both Sammy and Vanessa a speedy recovery......Go Bears.

 

[NewbieBear]

Re: Brown University Bears 2011-12

Great home opening weekend by the Bears. Stellar goal tending by both keepers and timely scoring earned the Bears a come from behind tie vs the Engineers on Friday night, and a win vs Union tonight. The latter game was decided on a goal in the dying minutes to win 1-0. Landry with the goal and Jamieson with the shutout.

Well Done girls.

More later.

Go Bears Go.

As promised a more detailed update. Bears had a great weekend, despite missing three players from the lineup due to illness, injuries and national team commitments.

Here are the game reports:
RPI game: http://brownbears.com/sports/w-hockey/2011-12/releases/20111111xj6wxf
Union Game: http://brownbears.com/sports/w-hockey/2011-12/releases/20111112v3n5kh

Congratulations to Sarah Robson on her first career goal vs RPI. It was beautiful goal, and agree with SFRS that Sarah was one of our best forwards this weekend. As SFRS indicated that pass from Janice Yang to set up Caitlyn Landry was just a great play. Just minutes before another rookie, Shannon Flatley had created a great chance when she fed Dolan for a tip in after a great end to end rush.

Brown's goaltending has been fantastic this year. Katie Jamieson earned a shutout yesterday, and sports a .938 save percentage. Aubree Moore sports an even better 0.948 save percentage to lead the league in that department with Jamieson second. That is a great 1-2 goaltending duo to have. They have been splitting the duties pretty much 50/50. Well done ladies.

Meanwhile up front Co-captain Landry is having a rejuvenation season. She is leading the team in scoring with five goals, and potted the GWG yesterday. Well done Katelyn.

As a team Brown is at 500. Take away the two outlyers (Sacred Heart and Cornell), and the numbers for the other five games are one win, one loss, two ties and 6GF, 6GA. Clearly a team that thinks defense first, giving themselves a chance to put points on the board most games.

Keep working hard ladies, and wishing both Sammy and Vanessa a speedy recovery......Go Bears.

 

[NewbieBear]

It's All Bears this weekend

It's All Bears this weekend

It will be a Bear of a matchup this weekend, as the Brown Bears travel up to Maine to face the Black Bears. Bruno is facing their former ECAC foes for the first time in many years.

Both teams have shown improvements over last year, and both are coming of three point weekends. The Brown Bears will have Alena Polenska, who was away the last two weekends, playing with the Chech national team at the 8 nations event, back in the line-up this weekend. Her National teammate Nikola Tomigová will be back for the home team.

Here is the official preview:
http://www.brownbears.com/sports/w-hockey/2011-12/releases/20111117i9rikw

Go Brown Bears Go.