What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

When you bring ministers from minority coalition members into the government, do they bring along the minority party's policies for that department? How much power does a minister have to shape his department's policies / implementation?
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Kepler said:
When you bring ministers from minority coalition members into the government, do they bring along the minority party's policies for that department? How much power does a minister have to shape his department's policies / implementation?
Click to expand...

It's not total - essentially it's a main component of power-sharing in a coalition government. Neither side can really get 100% of what they want, but if they can't come to an agreement, things either come to a complete standstill until they bridge the impasse, or one side pulls out of the coalition and the government collapses.

Say, for instance, that a Tory/Lib Dem coalition gives the UK David Cameron as PM and Vince Cable of Chancellor of the Exchequer. That puts Cable, a Lib Dem, in charge of producing the budget (and that would happen relatively soon with an emergency budget due under Cameron). Cable comes back with a budget that favors Lib Dem positions. Cameron rejects it and lets him know what he wants different. Cable either compromises or stands firm. If he compromises, there's a budget if Cameron accepts compromises to his wants as well. If he stands firm, nothing happens until one side or the other finally has enough and quits the government. At that point, another election is practically assured.
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

In your example, what's the Commons doing while Cameron and Cable pass the budget back and forth? Budgetary horse trading is, arguably, the most pursued business in Congress -- does the Commons not have equivalent leverage?
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Kepler said:
In your example, what's the Commons doing while Cameron and Cable pass the budget back and forth? Budgetary horse trading is, arguably, the most pursued business in Congress -- does the Commons not have equivalent leverage?
Click to expand...

Much like our own House, the House of Commons ultimately comes down to one person, one vote, but not everyone will have had a direct hand in forging the budget, although members of the coalition parties will certainly have put input into their leaders into what they want/need in any budget or bill.
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Red Cloud said:
Much like our own House, the House of Commons ultimately comes down to one person, one vote, but not everyone will have had a direct hand in forging the budget, although members of the coalition parties will certainly have put input into their leaders into what they want/need in any budget or bill.
Click to expand...

Do they use the same committee / subcommittee structure and authorization / appropriations workflow we do?

It's difficult to wrap my mind around a system where the chief executive is also the head of the legislature. All my Montesquieu separation of powers alarms go off.
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Kepler said:
Do they use the same committee / subcommittee structure and authorization / appropriations workflow we do?
Click to expand...

Not entirely sure. I do know they have committees and that each bill goes through committees, but I'm not sure if it's exactly the same as the American method.

It's difficult to wrap my mind around a system where the chief executive is also the head of the legislature. All my Montesquieu separation of powers alarms go off.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a bit foreign when you're used to the Cabinet being unelected appointees confirmed by the legislature. Instead, they're elected as MPs but then selected to join the cabinet.

BTW, for those interested in seeing the major differences in Northern Irish politics, the four NI leaders will be debating on the Beeb in an hour's time: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/election2010/liveevent/

Funny how things change over the years. Gerry Adams used to have his voice banned from broadcast anywhere in the UK, now he's got a primetime soapbox on the BBC.

EDIT: Interesting commentary on the BBC:

Gordon Brown could stay on as prime minister in a hung parliament until such time as he loses the vote at the end of the Queen's speech debate on 25 May, say constitutional experts Professor Robert Hazell and Peter Riddell. He is "entitled to meet the new Parliament and test whether his government can still command the most support in the new House of Commons". They say it is Mr Brown's "duty" to remain in office until it becomes clear who can command that confidence, adding: "We must always have a government, and until a new government can be formed the present government carries on."
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Red Cloud said:
Yeah, it's a bit foreign when you're used to the Cabinet being unelected appointees confirmed by the legislature. Instead, they're elected as MPs but then selected to join the cabinet.
Click to expand...

Do you have to be an MP to be in the cabinet? That's interesting, I had no idea. Do MPs run by saying "if elected I've been assured by the PM I'll be Minister of Funny Walks and that means goodies for my constituents my opponent can't deliver," the way our members run on their committee chairmanships and the pork that entails?
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Kepler said:
Do you have to be an MP to be in the cabinet? That's interesting, I had no idea. Do MPs run by saying "if elected I've been assured by the PM I'll be Minister of Funny Walks and that means goodies for my constituents my opponent can't deliver," the way our members run on their committee chairmanships and the pork that entails?
Click to expand...

Well, you don't have to be an MP, but it does help. Members of the House of Lords can also be part of the Cabinet. The Prime Minister can get non-MPs added to his/her cabinet by making them a life peer, which entitles them to sit in the Lords. Three members of Gordon Brown's most recent cabinet are Lords, including Lord Mandelson, who is one of the most prominent members of the Cabinet and has been a major part of the campaign for Labour.

Parties that are not in government have "shadow cabinets" that align with the government's cabinet, so if an opposition party wins the election and becomes the government, the shadow cabinet becomes the real cabinet. So yes, in that sense perhaps that may be incentive for that MP's constituency to vote for them, but most shadow cabinet ministers are already senior MPs anyway. The most important of them are from safe constituencies, but some of the younger ones are sometimes from more marginal constituencies.
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

* David Cameron is pulled an all-nighter last night, campaigning with shift workers overnight and he's got a full day of campaign ahead today on very little sleep (you have to assume he's been napping on the bus).

* The BNP has imploded on itself at pretty much the worst possible time from their standpoint. The head of their online operation abruptly quit this morning, taking their website with him and redirecting it to a long screed which called Nick Griffin "pathetic, desperate, and incompetant." It's back up now, but news is also coming down that there has been a lot of infighting within the party.

* Yesterday's NI leaders debate was interesting. It seems as though each party wants to move past sectarianism, but all continue to get dragged into it. The SDLP attacked all of the other parties efficiently in my view, standing up for their republican stance but offering to be a party for all of Northern Ireland in that they are the only party standing in all 18 constituencies, specifically attacking Sinn Fein for their abstentionism. The UUP tried to sell the benefit of having Northern Irish MPs (from their party) as a formal member of the government in the case of a Tory victory, something that hasn't happened in decades. I must admit, it was a bit odd to hear Sinn Fein debating budget and governmental issues when they will not take their seats and therefore have any direct ability to effect their positions.

* With the election happening tomorrow, the news outlets are starting to look at individual constituencies over the national numbers. Times reports that Ladbrokes - one of the larger betting houses in the UK - expects that the Tories will win between 315 and 320 seats, short of a majority by between 6 and 11 seats, given their analysis of betting trends. That brings up scenario three as outlined below - and a field day for the nationalist parties. Ladbrokes, however, is certainly rooting for a Conservative majority; they claim that a hung parliament will cost them £250,000.
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Speaking of individual constituencies... here are some of the ones to be looking for tomorrow night.

Tory/Lib Dem battlegrounds
There are a number of Lib Dem constituencies that the Tories had targeted at the beginning of the election given close losses there in 2005. However, given the new Lib Dem surge, it may prove difficult for the Tories to take them. If they do, it might be a harbinger for a good night for David Cameron. The tightest races are in Romsey & Southampton North, Taunton Deane, and Somerton & Frome.

Three-way battles
Norwich South is a complete tossup between the three major parties, while Ochil & South Perthshire is an odd three way battle between Labour, the Tories, and the SNP.

Tories on defense
With the party in position to make big gains in Westminster regardless of the final outcome and with Labour as the most targeted party, it's pretty rare to have currently held seats in jeopardy, but the Lib Dems could score a pickup of a Tory seat in Eastbourne.

Labour ministers in trouble
Ed Balls, rising Labour star and Secretary of State for Children, Families, and Schools, may be in trouble in Morley & Outwood given the amount of time he's spent in his own constituency, Secretary of State for Scotland Jim Murphy faces a fight with the Tories in Renfrewshire East (David Cameron dropped in there yesterday), and Minister of State for Transport Sadiq Khan is in a tough battle for Tooting.

Labour incumbents on the sideline
Not too often in America do you see incumbents running against two other candidates and running well in third, but it looks like Labour seats in Watford and especially Ealing Central & Acton are turning out to be major Tory/Lib Dem battlegrounds.

Fermanagh and South Tyrone
The most interesting seat in Northern Ireland is in the usual republican stronghold of Fermanagh and South Tyrone. Sinn Fein's Michelle Gildernew has held this seat for nine years, but the DUP and UUP agreed not to field candidates and instead support an independent unionist, Rodney Connor. Complicating matters is the SDLP's decision not to pull their candidate to similarly unify the republican vote. Gerry Adams sounded all but resigned to losing this seat last night during the debate, and the move (and lack of a move by the SDLP) was a major sectarian issue.

Buckingham
Interesting for a couple of reasons. This seat is held by John Bercow, the Speaker of the House of Commons. After the House elects an MP speaker, that MP must leave his party and become non-partisan. In return, none of the major parties run candidates against him. Bercow, however, was slightly tainted by the MP's expenses scandal, which means he's not a shoo-in, and faces former UKIP leader Nigel Farage, who is his party's best hope for its' first ever MP. Ladbrokes has Farage's chances at 17%. If he wins, the UKIP not only gets its first MP, but there will have to be an election for Speaker early in the next Parliament, possibly throwing a wrench into what might already be an interesting situation.

Brighton Pavilion
Green Party leader Caroline Lucas is one of the favorites here, she would be the first Green MP.

The BNP
The BNP's best chance at winning a seat in Barking. Nick Griffin is the candidate, but Ladbrokes pins his chances at about 3 in 20, elsewhere, they hope to have a shot in Dagenham & Rainham and Stoke-on-Trent Central, but are even farther back there.

Arfon
Plaid Cymru's bellwether constituency. It holds the incumbent, but due to redistricting, Labour would have polled more votes in 2005. If they win convincingly here, they would be well on their way to increasing their representation.

Bethnal Green & Bow
George Galloway's current seat, which may become the only Labour pickup of the election.

Poplar & Limehouse
George Galloway's new constituency, which Ladbrokes gives him only an 8% chance of winning. He may well be able to devote even more time to annoying Israel with his repeated attempts to break the Gaza blockade.

Wyre Forest
Interesting incumbency battle here - Richard Taylor has won twice as an independent candidate on the "Kidderminster Hospital - Health Concern" line, initially defeating Labour in 2001 just one election after Labour had ended a long line of Tory MPs. One issue candidates are rarely elected in the first place, let alone re-elected. This seat is a Tory target, it'll be interesting to see if Taylor can make it three in a row.

Thirsk & Malton
This should be a safe Tory seat, but due to the death of the UKIP candidate last month, its election will be delayed until late May. Thus, the results from every other constituency will be in and if single seats become important, this could become an all out war.
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

I hope CSPAN picks up the Beeb's election night coverage. The Swingometer is the coolest thing in politics.
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Kepler said:
I hope CSPAN picks up the Beeb's election night coverage. The Swingometer is the coolest thing in politics.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I almost forgot... the BBC reached an agreement with the Palace of Westminster last week. They're going to project a three-bar graph onto Big Ben tomorrow night starting from when the polls close until sunlight the next morning tracking how many seats each of the three major parties has won. That'll probably be pretty cool.
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Kepler said:
I hope CSPAN picks up the Beeb's election night coverage. The Swingometer is the coolest thing in politics.
Click to expand...

They are, on C-SPAN3. Alternatively, you should be able to watch online at the BBC or C-SPAN, whichever you prefer.
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Red Cloud said:
Speaking of individual constituencies... here are some of the ones to be looking for tomorrow night.
and Minister of State for Transport Sadiq Khan is in a tough battle for Tooting.
Click to expand...

Geez. Even flatulence is costing Labour votes these days... :D
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Red Cloud said:
The BNP
The BNP's best chance at winning a seat in Barking. Nick Griffin is the candidate, but Ladbrokes pins his chances at about 3 in 20, elsewhere, they hope to have a shot in Dagenham & Rainham and Stoke-on-Trent Central, but are even farther back there.
Click to expand...

Barking has had some issues with voter turnout the last several elections, if there is a mobilized BNP following I wouldn't be surprised to see them grab that one. If they get Dagenham that's a big, big blow to the Labour who have been really hitting that area hard the past year. Stoke-on-Trent won't be much of a race for the BNP as most of their support there has wavered in the recent months.
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Was waiting to see if the Sun would come up with something that could become as memorable as their Election Day '92 cover. I'll let you be the judge.

sun_camerobama.jpg
 
Re: British Election 2010 - Jolly Good

Voting is underway. There's about 8 1/2 hours left until the results start trickling in, but there's been a bit of shocking news.

Nigel Farage, the former leader of the UKIP, a member of the European Parliament and the candidate with the best chance of becoming the UKIP's first Westminster representative was in a plane crash this morning in Northamptonshire. The plane he was in was apparently dragging a banner reminding people to vote, and as they banked after takeoff, it got tangled in the tail. The plane crashed upside-down and was a twisted, mangled wreck. Farage and the pilot both survived and were taken to a local hospital. The pilot apparently got the worse of the injuries, but both are expected to eventually be OK. Farage, it appears, will not be released from the hospital tonight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top