Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

[Hokydad]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

What I agree with:
-His wingspan, reach and pokechecking. These are all kind of intertwined, but yeah, there were definitely times last year when it looked like someone was around him and he'd just reach out and poke the puck away, or it looked the puck was out of the zone and he'd find a way to keep it in. The one exception that comes to mind here is Kreider beating him 1-on-1 in the Beanpot, but I think that was the exception not the rule. Kreider had a ton of speed and put on an NHL-caliber move. Most defensemen would've looked just as helpless as Nicastro.
-His skating. For someone his size, he can definitely move. He's obviously not as good a skater as Warsofsky or Shattenkirk, but he's also bigger than those two.
-His shot. Definitely very good. Not only is it hard, but I don't remember too many instances when he shot into someone last year. He's also good at keeping it down when there's traffic in front.
-His physicality. Yeah, he can mash.
-His inconsistency. There were definitely times last year when he would disappear or sit back a little too much. Then again, you could say the same about anyone on last year's team. And like that writer mentioned, he still has three years in college to go. I think he'll only get more consistent as time goes on.

What I don't agree with:
-His great outlet passes. I have no doubt that he has the potential to be a great outlet passer like Shattenkirk, but I didn't see too much of it last year. On the contrary, I actually remember a lot of his passes getting picked off in the neutral zone.
-His great positioning. Again, no doubts he has this ability, but I just didn't see it much. There were quite a few times last season when he'd pick a bad line and have someone beat him wide or he'd wait too long to turn around (both of which are problems Shattenkirk had as a freshman, too).

As I wrote this up, I realized how similar Nicastro is to Shattenkirk. Comparable skill sets (Shattenkirk had a little more raw talent) and comparable problems as a freshman. I don't expect Nicastro to make the jump to Second Team All-American like Shattenkirk did as a sophomore, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he did.

Your pretty accurate there fed. That write up was a little strong and contradicted a few others. He is a keeper and is exactly what you would expect from Steve Poapst, his old coach with the Chicago Steel. Poapst does a tremendous job with the D and the key is he lets them play, does not stiffle their development and offensive upside. At the same time, he holds them accountable and really teaches them how to be a complete player. He has put out Nicastro, as well as Samuelson(BC), John Moore(first rd pick), Kostalanski(UNH), Adams(PC), Lind(ND), Young(CC) and as well as others. He does as good a job as anyone in USHL and if you can grab a D from his program, you should.

 

[Agganis]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

What I agree with:
-His wingspan, reach and pokechecking. These are all kind of intertwined, but yeah, there were definitely times last year when it looked like someone was around him and he'd just reach out and poke the puck away, or it looked the puck was out of the zone and he'd find a way to keep it in. The one exception that comes to mind here is Kreider beating him 1-on-1 in the Beanpot, but I think that was the exception not the rule. Kreider had a ton of speed and put on an NHL-caliber move. Most defensemen would've looked just as helpless as Nicastro.
-His skating. For someone his size, he can definitely move. He's obviously not as good a skater as Warsofsky or Shattenkirk, but he's also bigger than those two.
-His shot. Definitely very good. Not only is it hard, but I don't remember too many instances when he shot into someone last year. He's also good at keeping it down when there's traffic in front.
-His physicality. Yeah, he can mash.
-His inconsistency. There were definitely times last year when he would disappear or sit back a little too much. Then again, you could say the same about anyone on last year's team. And like that writer mentioned, he still has three years in college to go. I think he'll only get more consistent as time goes on.

What I don't agree with:
-His great outlet passes. I have no doubt that he has the potential to be a great outlet passer like Shattenkirk, but I didn't see too much of it last year. On the contrary, I actually remember a lot of his passes getting picked off in the neutral zone.
-His great positioning. Again, no doubts he has this ability, but I just didn't see it much. There were quite a few times last season when he'd pick a bad line and have someone beat him wide or he'd wait too long to turn around (both of which are problems Shattenkirk had as a freshman, too).

As I wrote this up, I realized how similar Nicastro is to Shattenkirk. Comparable skill sets (Shattenkirk had a little more raw talent) and comparable problems as a freshman. I don't expect Nicastro to make the jump to Second Team All-American like Shattenkirk did as a sophomore, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he did.

Agree with your assessment, minor quibbles would be that the article also seems to over sell his shot a bit, but that could just be my opinion since with Colby on the roster last year no one else's shot looked hard in comparison. Also while he can certainly use his body he did not make as many physical statements to the opposition last year as the article would seem to suggest.

Definitely agree with your last paragraph, they are similar players, Kevin having a bit more pure skill, #7 with the size advantage. In fact I'd argue that 7 and 21 were a more reliable pair as Frosh than Kevin and Colby were, here's to them both taking similar leaps as Sophomores.

 

[BU Hammer]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

What I agree with:
-His wingspan, reach and pokechecking. These are all kind of intertwined, but yeah, there were definitely times last year when it looked like someone was around him and he'd just reach out and poke the puck away, or it looked the puck was out of the zone and he'd find a way to keep it in. The one exception that comes to mind here is Kreider beating him 1-on-1 in the Beanpot, but I think that was the exception not the rule. Kreider had a ton of speed and put on an NHL-caliber move. Most defensemen would've looked just as helpless as Nicastro.
-His skating. For someone his size, he can definitely move. He's obviously not as good a skater as Warsofsky or Shattenkirk, but he's also bigger than those two.
-His shot. Definitely very good. Not only is it hard, but I don't remember too many instances when he shot into someone last year. He's also good at keeping it down when there's traffic in front.
-His physicality. Yeah, he can mash.
-His inconsistency. There were definitely times last year when he would disappear or sit back a little too much. Then again, you could say the same about anyone on last year's team. And like that writer mentioned, he still has three years in college to go. I think he'll only get more consistent as time goes on.

What I don't agree with:
-His great outlet passes. I have no doubt that he has the potential to be a great outlet passer like Shattenkirk, but I didn't see too much of it last year. On the contrary, I actually remember a lot of his passes getting picked off in the neutral zone.
-His great positioning. Again, no doubts he has this ability, but I just didn't see it much. There were quite a few times last season when he'd pick a bad line and have someone beat him wide or he'd wait too long to turn around (both of which are problems Shattenkirk had as a freshman, too).

As I wrote this up, I realized how similar Nicastro is to Shattenkirk. Comparable skill sets (Shattenkirk had a little more raw talent) and comparable problems as a freshman. I don't expect Nicastro to make the jump to Second Team All-American like Shattenkirk did as a sophomore, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he did.

Agree with you for the most part here, although I think they might've undersold his inconsistencies, which were pretty extreme in my eyes. One shift I'd be complimenting him on the blog for excellent positioning or a big shot block, and the next he'd be getting Chris Kreider'd.

The one area that sticks out to me as being mis-represented here is his vision and creativity with the puck. Granted, in comparison to guys like Shattenkirk and Warsofsky -- two of the better breakout defenders in all of college hockey -- he probably should seem a bit lackluster to me. I don't think his outbreak passes and vision in the neutral zone are poor, but I'm not sure I saw enough to say that it's already a real strength. Somebody who scouts NHL prospects for a living may disagree, and honestly, I might be spoiled by watching guys like Gilroy, Shattenkirk and Warsofsky the last few years -- all of whom project to be above-average breakout defenders at least.

Still, he was prone to panic attacks under pressure behind his own net (as I recall, he did seem to improve in the second half before the injury), and as FL said, he would periodically make a "What the??" pass/turnover around center ice.

My only other qualm with this guys analysis was with Nicastro's vision and anticipation on the PP. He has all the tools to stand out there, but in order to reach an elite NCAA level, he needs to always be one pass ahead of the play (something that C. Cohen, Warsofsky and Shattenkirk were all fantastic at last year). That's one thing you absolutely expect to improve with seasoning, and considering his shot and skating skills, I'd guess he'll be leading the BU powerplay very effectively, if not until 2012 after Warsofsky graduates.

 

[Rogie21]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

Thanks to all for replies.

It's worth reminding that the mlive.com writer, a respected hockey writer, was working with a different and limited group of observations. His own disclaimer:

Keep in mind that these comments are based upon a week's worth of watching players performing in a skill-development environment with somewhat limited checking, and that I'd seen some of these players perform for the first time last week, so these comments are not meant to be be-all-end-all assessments, merely evaluations based upon the information I gathered.

No doubt Nicastro is a work in progress and probably needs another two seasons at BU before he should consider a move. But it is certainly encouraging to read that "In terms of out-and-out hockey talent, Nicastro was the most talented defenseman on the ice not named Brendan Smith, and he was arguably one of the four most talented skaters—out of 34 participants."

 

[BU Hammer]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

But it is certainly encouraging to read that "In terms of out-and-out hockey talent, Nicastro was the most talented defenseman on the ice not named Brendan Smith, and he was arguably one of the four most talented skaters—out of 34 participants."

No doubt, and I think this guy's observations only back up mine and FL's thoughts that Nicastro just needs to be more consistent. I think experience and confidence are all that's keeping him from becoming one of the better two-way defenders in HE.

 

[Federal League]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

I went to the Chowder Cup yesterday to watch Coyle, Nieto and Noonan (Clendening's on the team, too, but he didn't play yesterday). Here are my thoughts.

 

[BU Fan 84]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

What is the level of competition at the chowder cup? What teams are the other guys coming from?

 

[Rogie21]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

I went to the Chowder Cup yesterday to watch Coyle, Nieto and Noonan (Clendening's on the team, too, but he didn't play yesterday). Here are my thoughts.

Nice job, FL.
Re Noonan: Many of your comments echo what was said by my BCHL source about Noonan. I do hope we'll see the physical side of his game. When he earned Globe All-Scholastic honors at CM, he was recognized as one of the most physical players in the state.

Re Coyle: I'm not worrying about one game with a less than stellar performance either. Two different people very close to the BU program recently have used the term "real deal" in describing him.

What is the level of competition at the chowder cup? What teams are the other guys coming from?

A very wide variety of teams in terms of age and skill. Two of the teams that the quartet of Terriers faced were made up of Ontario Junior A players. The team FL saw is mostly 19 and 20 years olds and won a few playoff games. The third team was the Jr. Flyers, generally a good jr. organization.

 

[buoldtimer]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

I went to the Chowder Cup yesterday to watch Coyle, Nieto and Noonan (Clendening's on the team, too, but he didn't play yesterday). Here are my thoughts.

Thanks for your insights, FL.

Here are a couple of offpoint questions: How has your understanding of the game changed since becoming the DFP beatman? How have your conversations and interviews with JP changed your understanding of the game, if they've changed at all?

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

"The only negative I could possibly find was that he struggled to finish. He had a couple chances right in front that he either put wide or into the goalie’s chest. Still, it was an all-around very impressive game from Nieto."


ARGH!!!! BU Disease! (2002-2008)

let us find a cure, now!

 

[Federal League]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

Thanks for your insights, FL.

Here are a couple of offpoint questions: How has your understanding of the game changed since becoming the DFP beatman? How have your conversations and interviews with JP changed your understanding of the game, if they've changed at all?

Hmm...

I don't think my understanding of hockey itself has changed at all because I played it and watched it my whole life, so I already knew a lot in that sense.

However, I've definitely learned a hell of a lot about BU, Hockey East and college hockey in general. When I got to BU, I knew more than most of my freshman friends just from growing up in the area and following college hockey relatively closely. But I didn't know what kinds of systems BU used, how they set up on special teams or what the strengths and weaknesses of individual players were. I didn't know what kinds of systems other HE teams used or what each team's strength and weaknesses were. I still don't consider myself an expert on any of that stuff, but I know enough about it now that I can discuss it in articles, live blogs or on here.

And a lot of that newfound knowledge has come from talking to Parker. He's really just a great interview. He gives a full answer to pretty much every question and he never hesitates to go into detail. You can tell he just loves talking hockey, no matter whom it's with. When we have our weekly interviews with him for game previews, it's like he's just going over his scouting report with us. He'll tell us how the opponent likes to forecheck, what they like to do on the power play, what a certain standout player likes to do, and how he plans to counter all that. Then that gives us something to watch for during the game. Are they trying to do what Parker said? (Usually, yes.) Is BU doing a good job preventing them from doing it? I don't think I would've watched for all that or understood all that (at least not to the extent I do now) if I wasn't covering the team.

On a sort of related note, besides the learning, free entry and free food, one of my favorite things about covering the team is going to all the road games. I've always loved visiting new and different venues, but I couldn't really justify going to every road game as a fan. It's pretty easy to justify now, though (last year, my parents thought my plan to go to every game was crazy and unnecessary; now they don't even question it). Road games for me are almost as much about the drives (or flights in the case of St. Louis this year) and the different arenas as they are about the games themselves, which I realize sounds really weird, but it's the same reason I want to visit every MLB park someday regardless of whether or not the Sox are playing that team. Many of my most memorable weekends in college have centered around road trips -- Notre Dame (for basketball) and DC as a sophomore, NYC and Vermont last year. I fully expect St. Louis, Chicago and possibly even Maine (I mean, there has to be something to do up there right?) to join that group this year.

Apologies for the novel.

 

[BU Fan 84]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

A very wide variety of teams in terms of age and skill. Two of the teams that the quartet of Terriers faced were made up of Ontario Junior A players. The team FL saw is mostly 19 and 20 years olds and won a few playoff games. The third team was the Jr. Flyers, generally a good jr. organization.

That's good then, as it sounds like the BU guys really stood out on the ice against the Canadian players. Sounds like the rest of their team, however, is not at the same level. Tried finding a roster, looking to see if there were any BC, NU, Harvard etc. freshmen playing, but their website is awful.

 

[Federal League]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

That's good then, as it sounds like the BU guys really stood out on the ice against the Canadian players. Sounds like the rest of their team, however, is not at the same level. Tried finding a roster, looking to see if there were any BC, NU, Harvard etc. freshmen playing, but their website is awful.

Yeah, it's not very convenient. I bought a program there, though. Escobedo and NU's Anthony Bitetto both played for Dynamo. UVM's Chris McCarthy (sophomore) and Alex Vazzano and UNH's Kevin Goumas, Justin Agosta, Jeff Silengo and Eric Knodel all played for the CT Yankees. UVM's Connor Brickley, UML's Will Rayner and Harvard's John Caldwell all played for the New England Nordiques. UMass' Conor Sheary, UML's Mike Conderman and UNH's Jeff Wyer all played for the Northern CT Wings. NU's Jamie Oleksiad played for Team Ontario. UNH's John Henrion (sophomore) played for Wildcats Elite.

If I'm not mistaken, Adam Erne (a BU 2014 recruit) played, too, but I'll be dammed if I find him in this program, which is only slightly better than the website.

Edit: Erne played for Elite Red and 2012 recruit Robert Polesello played for Canadian Future Pros.

Edit No. 2: As for the rest of the Beantown Bullies team, it was mostly EJHL, USHL and D-III guys with a couple high schoolers thrown in. No other D-I players aside from the BU guys. The only other player on the team besides the guys I mentioned on the blog who looked to be up to the Canadian challenge was Paul Russell from the Boston Jr. Bruins. Everyone else was a step behind the whole game.

 

[Rogie21]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

Link to rosters
http://stats.proamhockey.com/stats/schedule.php?league=srchowder


http://stats.proamhockey.com/stats/roster.php?step=&sub=&season_id=37&team_id=1130

A bunch of college recruits here, plus Sean Escobedo, who for some reason is listed as a right-shot forward. He also is on another roster, Dynamo Hockey.

 

[Agganis]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

I couldn't really justify going to every road game as a fan.

That means you weren't trying hard enough

 

[Hokydad]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

I went to the Chowder Cup yesterday to watch Coyle, Nieto and Noonan (Clendening's on the team, too, but he didn't play yesterday). Here are my thoughts.

you are exactly correct. The only issue with Noonan has always been that he played CC hockey and picked up bad habits. Those were corrected in BCHL and my prediction is he will have a better carear at BU than Clendenning.

I have said all along I dont see Coyle being an impact player at BU for at least a couple years.

 

[Rogie21]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

you are exactly correct. The only issue with Noonan has always been that he played CC hockey and picked up bad habits. Those were corrected in BCHL and my prediction is he will have a better carear at BU than Clendenning.

On what do you base that prediction? Your past posts reveal a bias against Clendening, whom, IIRC, you insisted would never suit up for BU. While Noonan should fill the need for a physical, defensive-defenseman in the Strait mold (if not as talented), Clendening is a future powerplay quarterback. His play the second half of the past season--especially in the Worlds--led to some predictions of his being a late first round/early second round 2011 pick.

I have said all along I dont see Coyle being an impact player at BU for at least a couple years.

Again, please explain. The skills are there. Work ethic and physical conditioning are top-drawer. The most frequent criticisms have been lack of an explosive first step and being too unselfish on the ice. He's likely to get plenty of powerplay time and is a candidate to be on the first two lines--though I'd expect third line to begin the season.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

On what do you base that prediction? Your past posts reveal a bias against Clendening, whom, IIRC, you insisted would never suit up for BU. While Noonan should fill the need for a physical, defensive-defenseman in the Strait mold (if not as talented), Clendening is a future powerplay quarterback. His play the second half of the past season--especially in the Worlds--led to some predictions of his being a late first round/early second round 2011 pick.



I watched him play in the first and second half of last season, didn't see much improvement at all. NTDP is the most over hyped bs program in the country. They also told us that 2 of their D this year would be drafted top 10 in 2010 entry, which of course did not happen. They hype, push, promote and manipulate beyond belief their players. The NHL teams dont buy their bs and that is why last year they had more than 1 kid ranked in top 100 who didnt even get selected. I watched him play 5/6 games and he didnt show much on PP. Not even close to DW, not even close. Had 1 goal on PP in 26 games in USHL and 6 assists. 4 Of which were 2nd assists. Played every PP and still only had 1 goal. In worlds, they played weak comp, outscoring teams 33-7. He had 0 goals and 0 assists on PP. Did have 7 or 8 pts and did well. No bias, good kid and good player. Zero loyalty and if that high in sept rankings, I would bet 1/5 odds he wont stay at BU. There is a reason why BC moved on. First time its not all about him, addios amigo



Again, please explain. The skills are there. Work ethic and physical conditioning are top-drawer. The most frequent criticisms have been lack of an explosive first step and being too unselfish on the ice. He's likely to get plenty of powerplay time and is a candidate to be on the first two lines--though I'd expect third line to begin the season.

There is a reason why he and Hayes were drafted ahead of any NTDP forwards. Because they both have tremendous long term upside and nhl potential. Neiteher San Jose or Chicago drafted either for the next 6-12 months. Bu or BC should not and does not expect that either.
Coyle is a great player and will havea very good carear. Is he going to come in and play top 2 line type ice and beat teams like BC with Hayes(jimmy), Atkins, Gibbons, Whitney, Kreider etc? Zero chance. Maines older top 2 lines will eat him alive. This isnt the EJ and they wont be playing 17 year old kids in tier 6 leagues. These are 22-25 year old men who come from top junior orgs throughout N America.
I agree with 3rd line starting out and could easily see moving up. If so, they wont be in the Garden in March.
.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards

Again, please explain. The skills are there. Work ethic and physical conditioning are top-drawer. The most frequent criticisms have been lack of an explosive first step and being too unselfish on the ice. He's likely to get plenty of powerplay time and is a candidate to be on the first two lines--though I'd expect third line to begin the season.[/QUOTE]

Another quick thing. This again, is not the EJ. A league where you have 17 or 18 kids on a team who will not be playing outside D 3 and the ones who go D 1 are fillers/walk ons. This isnt the Warriors where they have not placed a kid in D 1 in years. These teams are loaded with guys who have tremendous work ethics and their physical conditioning is top-drawer as well. Go over to BC and watch Kreider work out or Hayes etc.

I remember whena guy said almost that exact same quote to Scotty Bowman and he chuckled and siad, "him and 240 other guys in this league"

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

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